MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[cardinalpride]

The reality, however, is that the "down year" qualifier is something that needs to be stated upfront, because even an average class in which nine of the top seventeen are on one team will result in a runaway winner when that class is juniors and seniors.

That is where I disagree.  Let's take the CCIW Class of 2007.  Taking the 9 that made the All-CCIW team and then adding another 11, here is something close to a Top 20 for last year's seniors (certainly up for debate, but this is in the ballpark):

[snip]

(Brian Schlemm, Anthony Lenoir, Nate Swetalla, and Mike Harrigan shouldn't be a part of this discussion, because they weren't CCIW freshmen. All four of them transferred into the league. Also, the fifth transfer on your list, Stephano Jones, wasn't a senior last year. He was a sophomore who is currently taking a sabbatical from schoolwork; he's made tentative plans to start classes again at NPU in spring semester. He may rejoin the Vikings in 2008-09 as a junior, although it's obviously not the sort of plan that a coaching staff can rely upon as a guarantee and I wouldn't want to have to give odds on his return to the team next season actually taking place.)

But your mythical "half of the top 18 in their class" 2006-07 team wasn't adjusted for roster movements in order to make it correspond to real-life CCIW teams from the 2006-07 season. You didn't subtract those players from their actual teams, and you didn't add them to an existing team. In other words, if Drew Wessels is one of those players on your mythical "half of the top 18 in the class of '07" team, then he is not playing for Augustana as well. There are no clones or undiscovered identical twins of Drew Wessels anywhere to be found, as far as I know -- although I'm sure that Grey Giovanine would like to find one that has some eligibility left. Plus, you have to add Wessels -- along with either two or three more from the group of Zach Freeman, Dan Walton, Anthony Simmons, Nick Michael, Brian Lee, and Michael Fiddler, plus half of the players from whatever's left of the second ten -- to a pre-existing team. In other words, you're adding, say, Wessels, Walton, and Fiddler to the roster of (using a random example CCIW team) Carthage, and you're subtracting Wessels from the Augie roster, Walton from the NCC roster, and Fiddler from the Wheaton roster. Plus, if half of the second ten are lost to attrition, you're adding, say, Andrew Freeman, Korte Long, and Raymond Lawrence to Carthage's roster and you're subtracting A. Freeman from IWU, Long from Millikin, and Raymond from NCC.

Just for the record Raymond Lawrence was also a transfer into NCC! 

[Gregory Sager]

Just for the record Raymond Lawrence was also a transfer into NCC! 

Thanks, CP, I didn't realize that. I probably missed it because I hadn't had an opportunity to see NCC's junior varsity for a few seasons until last year's prelim in the crackerbox.

Note to self....

"Never opine a hypothetical topic on this board, before making sure GS agrees with your hypothesis first."

For someone who never likes to deal in hypothetical discussions....

After Q - la deluge.

I only wish I had four or five hours every day to sit in front of a computer and blog other people's opinions to smithereens.

Alas, poor Prikkel - he's got to work instead.

Float like a butterfly, sting like ... a moth.

I thought that Pat might've been implying that North Park was the unnamed team in the "unfamiliar position", and it turns out that my inference was correct. The current front-page readers poll that was posted yesterday is: "Which CCIW poll result is more surprising?" The answers are: "North Park at No. 4", "Ill. Wesleyan at No. 7", "Neither are surprising", and "Both are equally surprising".

Now, on the face of it, Pat's allusion to the unfamiliarity of NPU's being picked fourth is certainly correct. It's been a long time since the preseason poll slotted NPU in the upper half of the league, although the Vikings were picked fifth during the first three years of this decade. And it's equally true that seventh is an unfamiliar position for Illinois Wesleyan. But the front-page poll is a little misleading, in that it plays to the ignorance of the people who do not follow this league.

I see I'm a few days behind, but this was the point -- to educate people on where North Park was picked and turn conventional wisdom in its head.

I guess that I just never viewed a readers poll as an educational device. Why not simply insert a sentence or two in the article about NPU's rejuvenation and IWU's struggles?

Because the art of the tease is to get people to click to read. Frankly, I thought that it might be less likely to get people to click through if I threw out North Park, which is fairly anonymous the past 10 years or so outside of your area.

That's valid, insofar as the poll is concerned. I guess I just don't see why it wouldn't have been easier to just drop in a line in the article about North Park's improvement, rather than slip NPU into the poll and hope that the poll piques the interest of front-page readers enough for them to educate themselves about the current CCIW status quo.

But I will freely confess that this is one of the smaller nits that I've picked in awhile.

[Titan Q]

An article on IWU heading into the season...

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/11/16/sports/doc473d36d597a84937730329.txt

IWU will start two freshmen today in guard Sean Johnson and forward Matt Schick. Wesleyan athletic director and former coach Dennie Bridges believes it will be the first time two freshmen have started for the Titans since Jack Sikma and Bob Spear in 1973-74.

[Titan Q]

The Division III volleyball semifinals are set at the Shirk Center, for anyone in the area and interested...

UW-Whitewater (35-4) vs Juniata* (37-4) - 4:30pm
Wash U (31-5) vs Wittenberg (38-0) - - 7:00pm

* defending champs

http://www2.iwu.edu/ncaaVB07/

[iwumichigander]

Because the art of the tease is to get people to click to read. Frankly, I thought that it might be less likely to get people to click through if I threw out North Park, which is fairly anonymous the past 10 years or so outside of your area.

While I knew the comment would draw your response, I think Pat's comment above is on point as well. 

I think the jury is still out as to whether or not North Park's program has been rejuvenated.  It certainly is giving the appearances of moving in the correct direction.  But I think we all realize NPU needs to show it on the court as IWU needs to show improvement to overcome its current struggle.

[REDMENFAN]

Here's a link to the Carthage season preview in the Kenosha News Today, Good luck to the Redmen in their season opener tonight in Pennsylvania!

http://kenoshanews.com/article_comments/view_comments.php?articleNum=2102241

[cardinalfanrochelle]

   



     
                                                                                    
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[Titan Q]

Radio link for IWU vs Tri-State (@ Albion) at 5:00pm CST...

http://www.wjbc2.com/

[mwunder]

Carthage wins their first game 85-69.

Bowens led Carthage with 25.
Bosko's son had 24 in his college debut.

[sac]

Apologies for not providing this earlier.  Live stats for IWU/Tri-State game.

http://www.albion.edu/sports/stats/xlive.htm

[Mr. Ypsi]

Going to OT in Albion, Tri-State and IWU tied at 78.  The Titans led by as much as 19 late in the first half; Tri-State has NEVER led, and the ONLY ties have been 0-0 and 78-78.  Freshmen ... they may be the death of me yet!

Sac, thanks for the livestats link - listening to Q while watching livestats is quite a treat!

[Mr. Ypsi]

Tri-State took the first lead of the whole game at 80-78, but the Titans scored the next 10!  It's not officially over yet, but it's over and the Titans win.  (I'd give a real final, but gotta pick up my son, and it's now a foulfest by T-S so the actual final may still be many minutes away!)

[Greek Tragedy]

I didn't make it down to Whitewater, anyone know the North Park/MSOE score?

[Gotberg]

I didn't make it down to Whitewater, anyone know the North Park/MSOE score?

According to Whitewater's site:  MSOE 69, NPU 63

[aceon2]

Some thoughts/comments on Carthage

Bowens and Djurkovic combine for 49 points and 74 min!!
Game was close most of the first half, Carthage pulled away thanks to a big run led by a couple Bowens threes with about 3 min left in the first half...

This Carthage team has an opportunity to contend for the Conference Championship if they can consistently get similar efforts out of the supporting cast around Djurkovic and Bowens...  Shemerdiak is a wildcard of sorts... The kid has a large amount of talent, can shoot the 3 ball, can jump outta the gym, etc... Yet he has been plagued by inconsistencies... Weather it be that he just doesnt have that killer instinct or that he is just lazy, when the kid comes to play he can be an All-Conference type player...  Sean Fendley, who was out tonight with a foot injury, is a kid that can really fill it up from the outside...  One of the best pure shooters in the conference...  Jacklin and Higgins are going to be about as consistent as it gets... Both are extremely intelligent players that know how to play the game, and do the "little things" it takes to win ball games...  Logan Derrick is almost as good as it gets as a freshman, and will definitely put up some numbers in games...  If they can get some post play out of the likes of Neb Franciskovic and Adam Stuart, then they will no doubt be contending for a Conference title, that remains a big if...   

Anywho, its great to see the d3 basketball season is underway...