MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

A few individual performances that stood out to me in looking at opening weekend boxscores...


* Trey Bowens averaged 20 points in the two Carthage wins.

A quiet assassin. Able to kill you off the pass or off the dribble. Go for his jab step or ball fake and he'll go around you like you're standing still. Don't play in his face defense and he'll use the slightest opening to rise up and fire a bullet off the pass. On defense, you need to constantly put a body on him. Bump him and keep him off balance. Allow him to get into a rhythm, and he'll shoot lights out.

I've been watching Trey since HS. I think he was a fairly good student then, but has been academically ineligible twice since his arrival in Wisconsin. Perhaps a little too much freedom, and not enough supervision initially? His biggest enemy is still his head. If he thinks too much instead of just reacting, hes lost. Additionally, if you can get inside his head, you can severely limit his effectiveness. Finally, Trey has always seemed, and this is certainly in keeping with my assertion that his biggest enemy is his head, to give the impression that he is fouled on every shot he misses, and that he never fouls an opposing player. When he doesn't get the calls, he tends to sulk. If you don't believe me, watch his body language when he feels shafted by the ref. He will very noticeably sulk. When he is in this mode, his game is negatively impacted. l 

[Gregory Sager]

A few individual performances that stood out to me in looking at opening weekend boxscores...


* IWU junior Jordan Morris averaged 16.0 pts and 5.0 rebounds for the Titans at Albion.  Morris was 6-12 from 3-pt range.

I, for one, am not surprised. Morris was very solid in the Titans preseason scrimmage against St. Francis. I think he learned a lot last season. Additionally, find me a player who looks like he grained any more strength over the summer and fall than did Morris.

Andy Wiele has. You'll be shocked when you see him, AO -- not just because of the blown-up biceps and pecs, but because of the newfound aggressiveness in his game underneath the basket.

[cardinalpride]

A few individual performances that stood out to me in looking at opening weekend boxscores...


* North Central junior transfer Matt Rogers scored 34 points off the bench yesterday on 11-19 FG and 12-19 FT vs Lindenwood.  Rogers averaged 27.0 pts and 5.5 rebounds in the two NCC wins (World Harvest Bible and Lindenwood).

The most remarkable point is that Rogers' 34 points were tallied in only 27 minutes of action. Additionally, the vast majority of his points were scored on slashing and powerful drives to the basket during which he went up, over, under, around, and through a lineup that featured a combination of height, bulk, and quickness equal to what any CCIW team can bring to the floor. He is certainly not going to average 27 in the CCIW, but he will get his share of points.

AO, I didin't get a chance to see NCC's game against Lindenwood on Sat.  You mentioned they were equal in some respect to many of the CCIW teams.  Do you think they have top or bottom half of the league size and talent?  I noticed from the boxscore http://www.northcentralcollege.edu/athletics/stats/basketball_m/07-08/NCCM-LIN.HTM there were 83 free throw attempts in the game.  What role did the officials play in the game?

[AndOne]

AO, I didin't get a chance to see NCC's game against Lindenwood on Sat.  You mentioned they were equal in some respect to many of the CCIW teams.  Do you think they have top or bottom half of the league size and talent? I noticed from the boxscore http://www.northcentralcollege.edu/athletics/stats/basketball_m/07-08/NCCM-LIN.HTM there were 83 free throw attempts in the game.  What role did the officials play in the game?

In answer to your questions:

1. I think Lindenwood, an NAIA member that gives athletic scholarships, would definitely finish in the top half of the CCIW. They combine size, speed. and talent. 
Several of their players looked like they they could have just stepped off the football field and changed from their football uniforms to their basketball threads.
Five of the top nine players in their rotation weigh in at a minimum 220 lbs with one at 220, two at 235, one at 240, and one at 260. The player who is 260 is the least mobile, but still moves as well as about half the players you will see in a typical DIII game. The other 4 are all fast and mobile.

2. The refs played a large role in the game. They called a combined 67 fouls which resulted in 83 FT attempts. Talk about a marathon game---especially with the OT included. The 67 fouls don't include the 2 technicals called on one of the Lindenwood asst coaches in the OT period. This resulted in Mitch Raridon shooting 6 free throws, the first five of which he made to ice the game.

During the game the refs didn't see a ticky tack foul they didn't call. Additionally, several phantom calls were made where the only thing fouled was the air in the the NCC "hanger." In their defense, there was some exceptionally rough play when fouls were well deserved. Several times during the game, players on both sides were basically thrown to the floor. Players had to be separated on at least two occasions. Three players were disqualified on each team. All five of the players on the floor for North Central when the game ended had 4 fouls. The evident frustration on the part of both coaching staffs was entirely understandable. In the OT, with NCC leading by 3, one of the Lindenwood coaches finally snapped and uttered one of the magic words TWICE resulting in two Ts and his ejection. The resulting 5 of 6 free throws made was largely responsible for the 10 point difference in the OT period. 

[Gregory Sager]

Opening weekend's now in the books. Of the twelve teams I saw over the past three days, this is how I rate 'em -- a foolish gesture, probably, since what one sees of a team on opening weekend seldom resembles the finished product at the end of February. Nevertheless:

1. Wheaton
2. Elmhurst
3. Trinity (TX)
4. North Central
5. Chicago
6. Benedictine
7. Ohio Wesleyan
8. Wittenberg
9. Simpson
10. Lake Forest
11. Kalamazoo
-
-
-
-
-
785. World Harvest Bible College

Does that mean that I think that Wheaton will finish ahead of Elmhurst in the CCIW? Not at all. Wheaton simply looked better at this very early stage of the season. One thing that you have to keep in mind is that Elmhurst's Achilles heel -- its backcourt play, in particular the play of the Bluejays PGs and the way that the team handles a full-court press -- is something that most CCIW teams will try to exploit, but which Wheaton isn't really set up to counter. Because Raymond and Panner defend so well, the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance will probably shut down every Elmhurst perimeter player besides Burks in the halfcourt (and I'm curious to see which Wheaton defender Bill Harris will use on Burks). However, Wheaton doesn't have the depth to press Elmhurst except in limited and selective circumstances, and the press is really the key ingredient to disabling the Bluejays, IMHO.

[Late nite]

Be careful, now---You became pretty defensive last season when someone commented on Simmons being a head case---People in glass houses...

A few individual performances that stood out to me in looking at opening weekend boxscores...


* Trey Bowens averaged 20 points in the two Carthage wins.

A quiet assassin. Able to kill you off the pass or off the dribble. Go for his jab step or ball fake and he'll go around you like you're standing still. Don't play in his face defense and he'll use the slightest opening to rise up and fire a bullet off the pass. On defense, you need to constantly put a body on him. Bump him and keep him off balance. Allow him to get into a rhythm, and he'll shoot lights out.

I've been watching Trey since HS. I think he was a fairly good student then, but has been academically ineligible twice since his arrival in Wisconsin. Perhaps a little too much freedom, and not enough supervision initially? His biggest enemy is still his head. If he thinks too much instead of just reacting, hes lost. Additionally, if you can get inside his head, you can severely limit his effectiveness. Finally, Trey has always seemed, and this is certainly in keeping with my assertion that his biggest enemy is his head, to give the impression that he is fouled on every shot he misses, and that he never fouls an opposing player. When he doesn't get the calls, he tends to sulk. If you don't believe me, watch his body language when he feels shafted by the ref. He will very noticeably sulk. When he is in this mode, his game is negatively impacted. l 

[AndOne]

Be careful, now---You became pretty defensive last season when someone commented on Simmons being a head case---People in glass houses...

A few individual performances that stood out to me in looking at opening weekend boxscores...


* Trey Bowens averaged 20 points in the two Carthage wins.

A quiet assassin. Able to kill you off the pass or off the dribble. Go for his jab step or ball fake and he'll go around you like you're standing still. Don't play in his face defense and he'll use the slightest opening to rise up and fire a bullet off the pass. On defense, you need to constantly put a body on him. Bump him and keep him off balance. Allow him to get into a rhythm, and he'll shoot lights out.

I've been watching Trey since HS. I think he was a fairly good student then, but has been academically ineligible twice since his arrival in Wisconsin. Perhaps a little too much freedom, and not enough supervision initially? His biggest enemy is still his head. If he thinks too much instead of just reacting, hes lost. Additionally, if you can get inside his head, you can severely limit his effectiveness. Finally, Trey has always seemed, and this is certainly in keeping with my assertion that his biggest enemy is his head, to give the impression that he is fouled on every shot he misses, and that he never fouls an opposing player. When he doesn't get the calls, he tends to sulk. If you don't believe me, watch his body language when he feels shafted by the ref. He will very noticeably sulk. When he is in this mode, his game is negatively impacted. l 

Late---

I don't think its a comparable case at all. Last season the comments about the player in question included, among other things, labeling him as a "head case" and other derogatory remarks. Furthermore, those remarks were repeated several times, rather than being a one time occurrence.

Reread my 1st paragraph about Trey. Is it damnation or praise? Its the later, I believe. And thats how it was intended. Most players have a fault or two. In Trey's case, I believe his temperment sometimes detracts from his ability level--which is high.

Furthermore, as I said, I've been watching him since he was in HS, I prob saw him play 20 times during his HS career. I've also observed him play for Carthage, both during the regular season and in summer league games. Accordingly, my comments were based on history and facts. He HAS been ineligible twice. He IS better when he reacts to a situation on the court rather than thinking too much about what move to make. Additionally, and this should be obvious to anyone who watches the game action closely, he does sulk when the refs either don't call a foul on the player guarding him when he thinks is warranted---which is often, or call one on him when he thinks its not warranted----again, which is often. These are the FACTS. No name calling. Just facts backed up with historical evidence.   

It should be obvious from my 1st paragraph that I think Trey Bowens is a very, very good player. If its not, then let me state that if I was coaching, I'd love to have a player of his caliber on my team.

Lastly, Late, when you talk player analysis you're playing in my ballpark------and I don't lose many home games.   

Later, Late!     

[Late nite]

There are many posters on this site that are qualified to have an opinion regarding a player's ABILITY---You're not alone---I did not neglect your positive comments about his ability---Your analysis of the player is accurate---I have also watched him play since his HS days---He was in our conference---I don't feel that your statement regarding "get in his head" is any different that the statements regarding Anthony Simmons---They both address a person's character---It's a hard call to make from the outside-looking-in---Many have a hard time knowing what makes their own kids tick, let alone someone that you just observe through competition---You seem to watch a lot of b-ball and your observations of a player's game are usually pretty accurate---Continue to give us your take on THEIR GAME--not your character assessment

Be careful, now---You became pretty defensive last season when someone commented on Simmons being a head case---People in glass houses...

A few individual performances that stood out to me in looking at opening weekend boxscores...


* Trey Bowens averaged 20 points in the two Carthage wins.

A quiet assassin. Able to kill you off the pass or off the dribble. Go for his jab step or ball fake and he'll go around you like you're standing still. Don't play in his face defense and he'll use the slightest opening to rise up and fire a bullet off the pass. On defense, you need to constantly put a body on him. Bump him and keep him off balance. Allow him to get into a rhythm, and he'll shoot lights out.

I've been watching Trey since HS. I think he was a fairly good student then, but has been academically ineligible twice since his arrival in Wisconsin. Perhaps a little too much freedom, and not enough supervision initially? His biggest enemy is still his head. If he thinks too much instead of just reacting, hes lost. Additionally, if you can get inside his head, you can severely limit his effectiveness. Finally, Trey has always seemed, and this is certainly in keeping with my assertion that his biggest enemy is his head, to give the impression that he is fouled on every shot he misses, and that he never fouls an opposing player. When he doesn't get the calls, he tends to sulk. If you don't believe me, watch his body language when he feels shafted by the ref. He will very noticeably sulk. When he is in this mode, his game is negatively impacted. l 

Late---

I don't think its a comparable case at all. Last season the comments about the player in question included, among other things, labeling him as a "head case" and other derogatory remarks. Furthermore, those remarks were repeated several times, rather than being a one time occurrence.

Reread my 1st paragraph about Trey. Is it damnation or praise? Its the later, I believe. And thats how it was intended. Most players have a fault or two. In Trey's case, I believe his temperment sometimes detracts from his ability level--which is high.

Furthermore, as I said, I've been watching him since he was in HS, I prob saw him play 20 times during his HS career. I've also observed him play for Carthage, both during the regular season and in summer league games. Accordingly, my comments were based on history and facts. He HAS been ineligible twice. He IS better when he reacts to a situation on the court rather than thinking too much about what move to make. Additionally, and this should be obvious to anyone who watches the game action closely, he does sulk when the refs either don't call a foul on the player guarding him when he thinks is warranted---which is often, or call one on him when he thinks its not warranted----again, which is often. These are the FACTS. No name calling. Just facts backed up with historical evidence.   

It should be obvious from my 1st paragraph that I think Trey Bowens is a very, very good player. If its not, then let me state that if I was coaching, I'd love to have a player of his caliber on my team.

Lastly, Late, when you talk player analysis you're playing in my ballpark------and I don't lose many home games.   

Later, Late!    

[tjcummingsfan]

Lastly, Late, when you talk player analysis you're playing in my ballpark------and I don't lose many home games.   

Later, Late!    

Grow up, there's alot of people who know how to analyze players.

[AndOne]

Yes there are tj, and I don't dispute that. Late and I have a little history of good natured bantering that you may not be familiar with. Although I know he can defend himself, I'm sure he appreciates your support. Late and I have actually been in agreement about several players in the past. I assume you also are a knowledgeable fan. I'm only stating my confidence in my ability to analyze players---especially those which I've seen play many times. Evidently, my doing so ruffles your feathers.

I know Bowens pretty well, and stand by my comments. My indication that you can sometimes "get in his head" is no reflection whatsoever on the young man's character. I am merely pointing out that if you can make Trey think about things rather than just let him react naturally to various situations on the court, that possibly puts you one step up. And, he certainly does do the sulking thing when he feels he has been wronged by the refs. All you need to do is watch him. Its often quite obvious.

Lastly, it seems you conveniently failed to note that I said if I was a coach I'd love to have a player of his ability on my team. And, to erase any lingering doubt that I have nothing but admiration for Trey Bowens' character , let me tell you a story. When he was a HS senior, his team naturally held a senior night when the players and their parents are introduced to the crowd. When Trey was introduced, he came out onto the court pushing a man in a wheelchair. I assume this was his dad. While they were out there, Trey seemed to go out of his way to indicate that all the good things being said about him were the result of his parents, especially his dad's, love and guidance. It was an obvious show of respect and love on his part. Accordingly, there is nothing wrong with his character. I never said there was. I merely stated the facts that 1) If you make him think by "getting in his head" you can limit his effectiveness, and 2) When he feels he is wronged by the refs, he sulks/pouts which can also negatively effect his on the court effectiveness. Those are the facts which are supported by history. 

[augiefan]

Sager, who must be single or has a wife who likes to get him out of the house, deserves our applause for watching 12 DIII teams in the first weekend. Well at least 11 DIII teams, as I'm not sure where you classify the World Harvest guys, who at least had the courage to sdhow up for their games.

[Titan Q]

IWU hosts Olivet Nazarene tomorrow evening – this will be the third and final "out-of-region" game for the Titans.  The remaining eight non-conference games are all in-region (Dominican, Webster, @ Illinois College, @ Wash U, @ Chicago, Hanover, @ Occidental, @ Claremont-Mudd-Scripps).

Olivet Nazarene is always a good non-conference opponent because they're usually comparable to a CCIW contender in terms of their talent and style of play.  The Tigers, members of the Chicagoland Collegiate Athletic Conference along with schools like Robert Morris and St. Xavier, were ranked #18 in the NAIA Division I preseason poll but have stumbled out of the gate to a 1-4 mark against a very tough schedule.  After defeating Rochester College, ONU lost to 4-0 Briar Cliff on a neutral court, @ NAIA D2 #1 MidAmerica Nazarene, @ defending NAIA DI runner-up and perennial power Concordia (CA), and @ NAIA D1 #22 Point Loma Nazarene in OT, in front of a road crowd listed at 2500.

Olivet Nazarene features 6-8 preseason 1st Team All-American Phil French (18.1 ppg, 7.7 rpg last season), 6-7 sophomore Tyler Wallenfang (12.2 ppg, 5.9 rpg as a freshman), and Ryan Paxson (12.4 ppg), son of Chicago Bulls G.M. John Paxson.  

Illinois Wesleyan and Olivet Nazarene have played every year for the last 12 seasons (starting w/ '95-96) with  IWU winning 11 of those contests.  Olivet Nazarene won an overtime game at their place in 2001-02, Scott Trost's first year at IWU (when the Titans went 12-12/6-8).  During this stretch ONU has won the CCAC 5 times ('97, '00, '02, '03, '06), made the NAIA Division I tournament 8 times (the five conference title years, plus '98, '99, '07), with a Final Four appearance in 2000. In that same 12-year span, IWU has won 5 CCIW titles ('97, '98, '03, '04, '05), made the Division III tournament field 9 times (the 5 CCIW title years plus '96, '99, '01, '06), and appeared in 4 Final Fours ('96, '97, '01. '06).  Two very good small college programs...for whatever reason, the Titans have owned the series.  

This should be a very good test for the Titans against a team very similar to the CCIW's top half squads.  Last year IWU won 64-63 in Bourbonnais behind two Andrew Gilmore free throws with :11 to play.  Zach Freeman led the Titans with 25 while ONU star Phil French did not play due to injury.  The young '07-08 Titans will have to play very well to win the game.

An interesting note – there will probably be four players from Washington, Illinois in the starting lineups.  ONU starts sophomore post players Kris Irish and Tyler Wallenfang.  IWU starts freshman Sean Johnson and junior Jordan Morris.  (Morris ended up graduating from Pekin HS...the other three all played for Kevin Brown at Washington HS.)

[Late nite]

AO---I truly enjoy the verbal volleyball that goes on between us---It energizes me and keeps me on my toes---You have proved my point with your story---The personality in compettion doesn't always define the man---You were defensive about Simmons because you had a personal relationship with him where he showed you his personality away from competition---The poster who referred to him as a "head case" did not---That was the only difference---You were closer to the situation 

Yes there are tj, and I don't dispute that. Late and I have a little history of good natured bantering that you may not be familiar with. Although I know he can defend himself, I'm sure he appreciates your support. Late and I have actually been in agreement about several players in the past. I assume you also are a knowledgeable fan. I'm only stating my confidence in my ability to analyze players---especially those which I've seen play many times. Evidently, my doing so ruffles your feathers.

I know Bowens pretty well, and stand by my comments. My indication that you can sometimes "get in his head" is no reflection whatsoever on the young man's character. I am merely pointing out that if you can make Trey think about things rather than just let him react naturally to various situations on the court, that possibly puts you one step up. And, he certainly does do the sulking thing when he feels he has been wronged by the refs. All you need to do is watch him. Its often quite obvious.

Lastly, it seems you conveniently failed to note that I said if I was a coach I'd love to have a player of his ability on my team. And, to erase any lingering doubt that I have nothing but admiration for Trey Bowens' character , let me tell you a story. When he was a HS senior, his team naturally held a senior night when the players and their parents are introduced to the crowd. When Trey was introduced, he came out onto the court pushing a man in a wheelchair. I assume this was his dad. While they were out there, Trey seemed to go out of his way to indicate that all the good things being said about him were the result of his parents, especially his dad's, love and guidance. It was an obvious show of respect and love on his part. Accordingly, there is nothing wrong with his character. I never said there was. I merely stated the facts that 1) If you make him think by "getting in his head" you can limit his effectiveness, and 2) When he feels he is wronged by the refs, he sulks/pouts which can also negatively effect his on the court effectiveness. Those are the facts which are supported by history. 

[cardinalpride]

AO, I didin't get a chance to see NCC's game against Lindenwood on Sat.  You mentioned they were equal in some respect to many of the CCIW teams.  Do you think they have top or bottom half of the league size and talent? I noticed from the boxscore http://www.northcentralcollege.edu/athletics/stats/basketball_m/07-08/NCCM-LIN.HTM there were 83 free throw attempts in the game.  What role did the officials play in the game?

In answer to your questions:

1. I think Lindenwood, an NAIA member that gives athletic scholarships, would definitely finish in the top half of the CCIW. They combine size, speed. and talent. 
Several of their players looked like they they could have just stepped off the football field and changed from their football uniforms to their basketball threads.
Five of the top nine players in their rotation weigh in at a minimum 220 lbs with one at 220, two at 235, one at 240, and one at 260. The player who is 260 is the least mobile, but still moves as well as about half the players you will see in a typical DIII game. The other 4 are all fast and mobile.

2. The refs played a large role in the game. They called a combined 67 fouls which resulted in 83 FT attempts. Talk about a marathon game---especially with the OT included. The 67 fouls don't include the 2 technicals called on one of the Lindenwood asst coaches in the OT period. This resulted in Mitch Raridon shooting 6 free throws, the first five of which he made to ice the game.

During the game the refs didn't see a ticky tack foul they didn't call. Additionally, several phantom calls were made where the only thing fouled was the air in the the NCC "hanger." In their defense, there was some exceptionally rough play when fouls were well deserved. Several times during the game, players on both sides were basically thrown to the floor. Players had to be separated on at least two occasions. Three players were disqualified on each team. All five of the players on the floor for North Central when the game ended had 4 fouls. The evident frustration on the part of both coaching staffs was entirely understandable. In the OT, with NCC leading by 3, one of the Lindenwood coaches finally snapped and uttered one of the magic words TWICE resulting in two Ts and his ejection. The resulting 5 of 6 free throws made was largely responsible for the 10 point difference in the OT period. 

Thanks for your commentary 

[Gregory Sager]

AO---I truly enjoy the verbal volleyball that goes on between us---It energizes me and keeps me on my toes---You have proved my point with your story---The personality in compettion doesn't always define the man---You were defensive about Simmons because you had a personal relationship with him where he showed you his personality away from competition---The poster who referred to him as a "head case" did not---That was the only difference---You were closer to the situation

One of the great things about CCIW Chat is that we always have posters who are familiar with the backgrounds and personalities of the players and coaches involved in this league. I think that it makes this room a better one than most, because the insight is usually a little more in-depth (and the disagreements thus sharper, because you have to be prepared and on your toes if you post a judgment here) than what you tend to get in other rooms.

Sager, who must be single or has a wife who likes to get him out of the house,

Both of which are eminently believable guesses.

deserves our applause for watching 12 DIII teams in the first weekend.

Thank you, but to be perfectly honest opening weekend is sort of a holiday for me. Baseball aficionados often make a big deal out of opening day in baseball; I do the same for opening weekend in D3 basketball. I plan it out well in advance and make sure that I have my schedule cleared for the weekend. After months and months of deprivation, it's just nice to be in a gym and hear the bounce of a ball on a wooden floor and the squeak of sneakers (and the howls of an irate mother angered that a ref has dared to call a foul on her baby boy ). Yeah, you can get your hoops fix watching summer leagues and preseason scrimmages ... but knowing that it counts really makes it all feel different somehow when the third weekend in November rolls around.

Well at least 11 DIII teams, as I'm not sure where you classify the World Harvest guys, who at least had the courage to sdhow up for their games.

Agreed, and if I had my druthers I would've been at the airplane hangar the next night, since I knew that I'd get a much better read on North Central by seeing the Cards against a better opponent. Alas, going to Wheaton on Saturday night instead of NCC was a much better fit for my schedule, and I no more have a clone than does Drew Wessels.