MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

AO,

You never back off of a chance to take a shot at Augie do you?  Viking Mike didn't once say that Augie got screwed last year.  He simply stated the facts and wondered why Wash U and Aurora, who were ranked lower in the region than Augie, were chosen to host a 4 team regional.  This has nothing to do with two years ago.  He also never said they shouldn't have beaten Carroll, or that they got "the shaft."

And I think losing to Wesleyan after beating them twice in 05-06 wasn't really surprising.  It's tough to beat a good team 3 times, especially a talented team that is beginning to hit its stride (as Wesleyan obviously did and made a run to the Final Four). 

TITAN Q...

I would like to think that Augie's win over Washington last weekend will come up big at the end of the year, but I think back to last year when the CCIW champion Vikings were the No. 1 ranked team in the region (22-5) in the last poll of the year and were overlooked by the NCAA for hosting a 4 team regional.  In fact , Wash U and Aurora, 2 teams below Augie, were chosen in favor of the Vikes. (And Augie had beaten Wash U. to boot)  Augie instead got one home[/b] against a HOT Carroll team (who they coincidently lost to) and was then expected to play at #6 St Thomas.  I was shocked, as was Coach Giovanne and the team.  What good are these parameters (QOW index/head to head/etc) if the NCAA doesn't use them?

Viking Mike-----

You might think Augie got screwed last year, But, the fact is that playing at home in the first round of the playoffs, they should have beaten Carroll.

Furthermore, if they did get screwed last year, maybe that just evened things out from the 05-06 season. That year, Augie lost 3 out of their last 4 regular season games, including loosing to Millikin, and getting blown out of town by North Central in the final regular season game. However, as a reward for finishing first in the regular season, they got to host the inaugural CCIW Conference Tourney. But then,  they couldn't even win a game on their own home floor in the tourney, making 4 losses out of the last 5 games to end the season. For this stellar performance, they were rewarded with hosting the NCAA regional including opening against a team that had only won two more games that it lost the entire season. They won both of those home games, but lost the first away tournament game they played.

I understand that according to the placement rules in effect at the time, maybe Augie earned home court in the playoffs before they finished the regular season and the conference tourney so poorly. However, they also got to open at home again last year. Accordingly, I can't understand how you feel Augie ever got the shaft.

Come ON knarocky 22--------

Read what Viking Mike said again. Did he really have to use the words "screwed" and "shaft" for you to know exactly what he meant? Or, weren't the phrases "overlooked by the NCAA," "two teams below Augie," "chosen in favor," and "instead got" enough to tell you what he meant. You are a pretty smart guy. I'm surprised you didn't pick up on that!   
Cardinalpride got it, and I bet he wasn't the only other person who read the post that had the same impression. 

Secondly, was anything I said about Augie's record over the period of time I referred to incorrect? I don't think so.

Third, as an Augie fan, can you truthfully tell me you weren't surprised that:
a) Augie didn't win at least one game on its home floor in the 06 conference tourney?
b) Augie lost to Carroll at home in NCAA tourney last year?

Lastly, rather that a shot at Augie as you suggest, the twofold intent of my post was meant to point out to Viking Mike that Augie didn't get anywhere near the poor treatment he thought they did, and was meant more as a shot at the NCAA DIII Tourney Committee for scheduling things they way they did.

[tjcummingsfan]

If I recall correctly, it was announced last year (during the games at Carthage) that all four teams had signed on for another 4 years. 

No offense to Carthage and Wheaton as the games have been entertaining the last three years but I'd enjoy seeing a new line-up. I am sure Wheaton, Carthage and Calvin fans might also enjoy the opportunity to match up against someone different in the future, whoever that may be.

But I do appreciate the opportunity to play quality opponents each year so this is way better than the alternative.

The original plan for the CCIW/MIAA Classic was for North Park and Wheaton to be the CCIW's two representatives. However, the NPU women's coach (Jack Surridge) and the previous men's coach (Rees Johnson) declined the invitation, so Carthage was invited to take that slot and the Carthage men's and women's coaches (Bosko Djurickovic and Tim Bernero) accepted. I thought four years ago that Jack and Rees made a mistake by declining the opportunity for NPU to be a part of the CCIW/MIAA Classic, from both the men's and women's perspective, and I still feel that way.

It sure makes sense for it to be North Park and Wheaton playing the two Reformed schools.  Do you know what Jack was thinking declining the offer (was part of it NP's poor team back when we were invited)?

[knarocky22]

I wasn't surprised at all that Augie lost to Wesleyan the first game of the conference tourney that year.  I was, however, very surprised that they lost to Carroll.

Hopefully I'll be able to make it to at least a few CCIW games this year to get my fix of watching good basketball.  Watching the offensively challenged Illini and Bulls on tv or going to hapless NIU games just aren't going to cut it. 

[sac]

It sure makes sense for it to be North Park and Wheaton playing the two Reformed schools.  Do you know what Jack was thinking declining the offer (was part of it NP's poor team back when we were invited)?

Hope used to play  North Park regularly in the  90's......91-92-94-96-97-98-99, haven't played since.  When Carthage joined the MIAA CCIW challenge the common denominator between Hope v North Park/Carthage meetings became Bosko Djurikovic.

Hope and Wheaton have played 30 times, but hadn't played for 5 years until the challenge started, and only 3 or 4 times in the 90's.

Calvin v Wheaton has been an annual meeting for as long as I can recall, and a natural fit.

I don't believe Hope or Calvin had much of a history with Carthage prior to the challenge.

[Titan Q]

A quick check on Zach Freeman in Germany...

Through 10 games, Zach is averaging 11.2 points and 4.9 rebounds.  He is shooting 55% from the field (44-80).  Zach comes off the bench and averages 21 minutes per game.  He had his career high in points two games ago, scoring 18 in 21 minutes of action vs TV Lich.  Zach's numbers in his first year of professional basketball are very similar to his freshman year at IWU - in 27 minutes per game in '03-04 he averaged 11.4 points and 7.1 rebounds and shot 54% from the field.

Zach's team, Phoenix Haagen, is 7-3 and in 2nd place in their league.  Sounds like he is doing very well!

Stats

Phoenix Haagen site

Zach's blog

[Viking Mike]

WOW...I didn't expect such a response from my post...
Thanks TITAN Q for your response.  I trust your take on the tourney and pairings given your experience at IWU.  I guess the take home message is that despite your body of work through the season and your regional ranking at the end of the year, it doesn't guarantee you anything.  Augie got one home game on a thursday night and was expected to play a #6 St Thomas team on the road while Aurora and Washington were able to play 2 home games on their home floor.  Definately an advantage for Washington who eventually went to the Final Four.  Would have been nice if Augie would have been awarded the luxury given there win over Wash U.  And yes, we were all surprised at hosting a 4 team regional in 2005-06 with losing 4 of our last 5, but we were also the No. 2 ranked team in the Midwest behind Lawrence at the end of the year.  I guess this does even things out.  Not complaining, just trying to understand how the NCAA rationalizes their tourney pairings...I guess the answer is play good ball and have a little luck.  Looking forward to a great season for Augie!!!

[Titan Q]

WOW...I didn't expect such a response from my post...
Thanks TITAN Q for your response.  I trust your take on the tourney and pairings given your experience at IWU.  I guess the take home message is that despite your body of work through the season and your regional ranking at the end of the year, it doesn't guarantee you anything.  Augie got one home game on a thursday night and was expected to play a #6 St Thomas team on the road while Aurora and Washington were able to play 2 home games on their home floor.  Definately an advantage for Washington who eventually went to the Final Four.  Would have been nice if Augie would have been awarded the luxury given there win over Wash U.  And yes, we were all surprised at hosting a 4 team regional in 2005-06 with losing 4 of our last 5, but we were also the No. 2 ranked team in the Midwest behind Lawrence at the end of the year.  I guess this does even things out.  Not complaining, just trying to understand how the NCAA rationalizes their tourney pairings...I guess the answer is play good ball and have a little luck.  Looking forward to a great season for Augie!!!

The pairings are just very unpredictable, Mike.  And when you play in a league where even a great team is going to lose some games, it really becomes tough because there are usually teams with better numbers that the CCIW's champ.  I can't remember how things shook up last year when the bracket came out, but I'm sure Aurora and Wash U had pretty good cases too.

I'm pretty much to the point where, when IWU is in the tournament, I just assume the road is going to be nasty and look forward to seeing the Titans play in some of those hostile road environments (like Lawrence - that was tough).  A team good enough to win the national championship should be able to go on the road and beat good teams.

That said, it's still best to have the best case on paper possible come Selection day.  It's certainly a big advantage to play at home in the tournament.  IWU got to go from the Shirk Center straight to Salem in 1997 and that was certainly a lot easier than being on the road.

[sac]

One thing to consider with last years pairings and who hosted whom.

Aurora hosted Chicago, Hope and Calvin.  Very easy travel for all three teams. 

Location had more to do with Aurora hosting than anything else, their resume was technically better than those 3 teams based on the criteria being used..  Plus Aurora didn't play two home games, they played one.  They were beaten in round 1 by Calvin.

Travel considerations is a big part of the Div III tournament pairings.

[tjcummingsfan]

Money and kids being in class have to take priority.

[dansand]

Just a reminder that Augie takes on 3-0 UW-LaCrosse tonight at Carver Center, 7:30 tip-off.

The Vikes are coming off two impressive wins this past weekend at the Webster/Wash U. classic. One of the weekend's highlights for me was getting a chance to meet, and interview at halftime of Sunday's game, Maxwell Artis, one of the stars of Augie's great teams of the late '70's & early '80's and MVP of the 1981 national tournament. Max still lives in the St. Louis area and came out to see the alma mater play and was nice enough to spend some time with us reminiscing.

[79jaybird]

UW-Oshkosh 43
Elmhurst 42        half
Bluejays were down by as many as 12 in the first half as the Titans were hot from the perimeter and FT line.  One Titan was 10 of 10 from the charity stripe.

Ruch I think has 10 to lead EC but Ruch cannot be the one man show.  Also heard Burks is wearing an arm brace after the collision in the Eureka game. UW-Oshkosh made a last second 3 pointer to take the 43-42 lead into the dressing room.

[augiefan]

Oshkosh 88 Elmhurst 86 appears to be the final.

[augiefan]

LaCrosse 66 Augie 64 Final.  Wessels made a 3 pointer at the buzzer but was called for charging. No basket but no objections, so it must have been a good call.

[kenoshamark]

Carthage wins 79 to 56...

http://www.carthage.edu/athleticspages/mens/basketball/ew.htm

Hard to gauge this game playing against a team like East-West.   Carthage exposed them on defense causing 26 turnovers and by being patient on offense, they could move the ball around the perimeter until they got the shots they liked.  Bowens led the way with 26, Djurickovic had 24 and Shemerdiak added 16 along with 11 boards. 

Once Bowens got going tonight he was unstoppable.  I want to see how he does against some better competition but he certainly played well and despite East-West having some pretty good athletes, they had no one who could stay with Trey. 

Shemerdiak had a very solid game and his outside shooting (4-7 treys) was a nice compliment to Bowens and Djurickovic.  Steve really came on in the second half.  He has a very good knack for getting into the lane and finishing.   As a freshman you don't usually see someone so willing to look for the contact like he does but he hit a number of shots after getting bumped and drawing a foul.   Logan Derrick also drove to the basket on a couple of occassions and if the two of them can continue to drive the lane and then look to kick it back out to Bowens or Shemerdiak (and Fendley once he is back) they will cause some real problems for defenses.

With that said, the three I have mentioned had 66 of the 79 points  so the lack of production from the rest of the team is a concern.  The other two starters, Higgins at the point and Neb at the 5 didn't score and Jacklin, who came off the bench for 17 minutes also didn't score.   Between the three of them they probably looked to score less than a half dozen times so it will be interesting to see how Bosko adjusts to teams that just don't guard them.   

I think more will be unfold about this team once they play Hope and Calvin....to early to tell yet what to really expect long term.

[Jim Matson]

Lousy call against Augie.  A charging call as you hit the winning 3 point shot?!?