MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Late nite]

For the most part during the last two seasons, Rukavina has consistently come into games and made positive contributions---Yet, he continues to play very limited minutes behind an inconsistent Swetalla---Can't figure out why he doesn't see more floor time

I agree. Nobody who wasn't at the game should cast any judgments as to whether or not the charge call against Wessels was "lousy". The fact that none of the Augie people are complaining about the call is telling. I would imagine that Dan was on the UWL @ Augie broadcast team, so I'm interested in reading what he has to say about the call.

In the archived broadcast, that play starts at 1:34:30 on the player.  No beefs from the broadcast team on the call and Dan said that Wessels gave a look like, "Oh...I got caught."

http://www.audiosportsonline.net/Augustana/Basketball.htm

Yeah, although disappointed, I can't complain too much on the Wessels call. It wasn't a charge. They called him for a little bit of a clear out before he put the shot up. It certainly wasn't anything blatant, it looked like just a subtle little nudge, but just enough to give him an advantage, which I'm sure is the criteria to make the call. If they don't call it, you'd say it was a great play by a crafty veteran. It was a great shot regardless.

Give LaCrosse a lot of credit, they controlled the tempo for the most part and Augie had very few transition opportunities. The Vikings have really excelled in the transition game early this year. LaCrosse, who came in averaging fewer than 10 turnovers per game, did turn it over 15 times, but most were travels, illegal screens, etc.--the type of turnovers that don't lead to transition opportunities. Augie also dominated the boards, but couldn't generate many fast break chances that way either.

While Augie didn't shoot it very well (42%) the bigger disappointment, I think, was on the defensive end. The Eagles came in shooting just 39% overall and 29% from behind the arc, but were 57% from the field and 10-20 from three-point range in this one. Tony Mane and TJ Nereng carried the UWL offense. Mane, in particular, hit some tough shots against pretty good defense, but we saw more breakdowns defensively from Augie than we did down in Missouri, which led to some easy back doors and wide open three's. Bottom line is, if the Vikings had played defense the way they did down in Missouri it never would have come down to that final play.

Attempting to glean some positives from this one, I'd have to point to Dan Rukavina, who played his best game this year and contributed some really important points and rebounds, especially on the offensive end. Matt Pelton looked for his own offense a little more tonight also, which was good to see. He also had 0 turnovers for the second game in a row.

[79jaybird]

I knew UW-Oshkosh was going to be a great opponent. I am glad Coach Scherrer and the Jays have scheduled UWO and Hope in non conference to use as barometers and tests for what the CCIW will bring.    I think both Elmhurst and Augie showed that they are able to compete with the big guys in D-3. 
I also think the fouls are partly due to lack of overall speed, but moreso inexperience as the Jays have a few young guys seeing a lot of minutes playing against veterans.

[Sakman 1111]

Wasn't in OshKosh so can't comment on the fouls but your assessment certainly makes sense. Will be at the Alma game Saturday after we watch Whitewater hopefully destroy Wabash in Whitewater in the playoffs....Hopefully Burks will be recovered for that game.....

[AndOne]

Does anyone know where I might view a box score from the NCC v. GC game last night? I've tried the NCC, CCIW and SLIAC websites. Any help would be appreciated.

Here you go:


http://www.northcentralcollege.edu/athletics/stats/basketball_m/07-08/nccm-gc.htm

[Titan Q]

I think both Elmhurst and Augie showed that they are able to compete with the big guys in D-3. 

I don't think at this point that I'd say the two WIAC/CCIW games last night indicate that.  UW-Oshkosh was picked 4th in the WIAC preseason poll and UW-La Crosse 5th.  While the WIAC is traditionally the best league in Division III, last year its champion (Stevens Point) lost at home in the 3rd round of the tournament.  The year before, 2005-06, the WIAC's two tournament teams (Whitewater and Stout) both lost in Round 2.  In other words, here early in 2007-08 we don't have a clear indiciation that this is one of those years where the WIAC has a bunch of national powerhouses, as we have seen so often in the past.  And as posted last night here by Old School, "La Crosse may have been 3-0, but their wins were hardly impressive. They went to Sheboygan and won on a layup at the buzzer to beat Lakeland, a team Point just beat by 38. They topped in-town NAIA rival Viterbo by 10, who usually isn't that good and then they squeaked by Ripon by one, a team picked 6th in the top-heavy MWC."

Oshkosh and La Crosse may very well turn out to be WIAC contenders and national powers this season, but as things stand right now, I don't think those games indicate that Augie and Elmhurst "showed that they are able to compete with the big guys in D-3."  The 2007-08 Oshkosh and La Crosse teams are far from proven powers.  The Augie game seems like a pretty big upset to me, simply because they are the national #4 and the CCIW's favorite...and the game was played in Rock Island. 

I applaud Augustana and Elmhurst for scheduling games like these.  I've always felt that IWU's success in the CCIW over the years has been due in large part to the Titans' tough non-conference schedule every year.  You have to play good teams to get ready for play in a strong league...even if that means taking a few losses on nights you're not at your best.

[LU_nut]

Careful Titan Q.....a couple of years ago, I tried to suggest that while the CCIW is clearly one of the best conferences in the country, the WIAC was generally better(citing the number of national championships for instance) and I got pretty lambasted on this board.   I do think the loss of Augie at home and the loss of Elmhurst at Oshkosh suggests that the WIAC is going to be stronger than the CCIW this year.  Point is head and shoulders the best team in that league this year in my opinion.   

I generally follow the MWC and have no axe to grind.  LU has generally played more games against the WIAC(Oshkosh and point every year) than the CCIW(Carthage yearly , NCC and IWU once over the past several years) , but I have seen enough of both to come to the view that the WIAC is a little stronger top to bottom.   Obviously the dynamics of the WIAC are different as they are large public schools.  That seems to make for a larger advantage in football.(Whitewater)

Good luck to the CCIW this year.  I look for Elmhurst guards to develop and for them to win lead by the best big man in the conference.   I also think IWU had a great recruiting class and will challenge in the years ahead.

Nut

[Titan Q]

Last March I made the comments below on the CCIW in 2006-07 in my blog for IWUHoops.com.  I'm trying to sort out what kind of league we'll have this year in terms of national powers.  While it's way too early to draw any conclusions, the two WIAC losses last night and Wheaton's 2-point win at home over a Chicago team picked about 4th in the UAA, and playing without its best player, makes me wonder if this is another one of those years without a true powerhouse type team.  We shall see.
----------
From March 2, 2007...

Augustana lost 73-69 at home to Carroll last night in Round 1 of the Division III tournament, leaving the CCIW without a team in the second round for just the first time since 1991. It is just the third time overall in 32 years of the D3 tourney that the CCIW hasn't had a team in Round 2.

This was kind of a transition year in the CCIW and one that was hard to evaluate. Last year the league had four very legitimate "Final Four caliber" teams in regular season champion Augustana, conference tourney champ North Central, Elmhurst, and tourney 4-seed IWU, which came within a basket of playing for the national title. Four All-Americans graduated from the CCIW conference tournament teams -- IWU's Adam Dauksas and Keelan Amelianovich, Chris Martin from Elmhurst, and M.O.P. Rick Harrigan (Augie).

Early on, a couple things became apparent:

1) The 2006-07 CCIW probably did not have a single team as good as any of the top 4 last year, and
2) There was more parity in the league than anytime in recent memory. #8 Millikin won at #2 Elmhurst...#7 IWU played two barn-burners vs #1 Augustana...#6 North Park swept preseason favorite North Central...#5 Carthage and #4 Wheaton were ranked in the D3hoops.com poll most of the year...etc.

The simple fact is that while the CCIW had a couple teams good enough to make a deep tournament run this year, the league's lone tourney rep. Augustana just was not a powerhouse. The 2006-07 Vikings separated from the CCIW field by making big plays down the stretch in several games, but they just weren't a team that took the floor with so much more talent than the other team that even on a down night could win easily. Last year when IWU faced Carroll, the Titans were just simply so much better that they weren't going to lose. This year's Augie team won with great defense, hustle, big plays, etc, but they weren't by any stretch as talented as those 4 CCIW teams last year.

I still think the CCIW was the best conference in Division III in 2006-07 because of the parity and talent level 1-8....but the league just didn't have one powerhouse team. I feel strongly that Augustana and Elmhurst were both good enough to win 4 games and get to Salem with the parity out there this year, but unfortunately they were both susceptible to off nights too -- Elmhurst lost to #8 Millikin at home (a loss that probably kept them out of the NCAA field) and Augustana, of course, fell at home in Round 1 of the NCAA tournament.

[Titan Q]

Careful Titan Q.....a couple of years ago, I tried to suggest that while the CCIW is clearly one of the best conferences in the country, the WIAC was generally better(citing the number of national championships for instance) and I got pretty lambasted on this board.   I do think the loss of Augie at home and the loss of Elmhurst at Oshkosh suggests that the WIAC is going to be stronger than the CCIW this year.  Point is head and shoulders the best team in that league this year in my opinion.   

I generally follow the MWC and have no axe to grind.  LU has generally played more games against the WIAC(Oshkosh and point every year) than the CCIW(Carthage yearly , NCC and IWU once over the past several years) , but I have seen enough of both to come to the view that the WIAC is a little stronger top to bottom.   Obviously the dynamics of the WIAC are different as they are large public schools.  That seems to make for a larger advantage in football.(Whitewater)

Good luck to the CCIW this year.  I look for Elmhurst guards to develop and for them to win lead by the best big man in the conference.   I also think IWU had a great recruiting class and will challenge in the years ahead.

Nut

As I probably responded to you last year, I think the CCIW has been better the last two years.  Historically the WIAC has been the best league in Division III, hands down, but here are the head-to-head results from the 2006 NCAA tournament and the 2006-07 season...

12/30/06 - Stevens Point 71 Augustana 68 (@ SP)
12/17/06 - Elmhurst 98 Whitewater 91 (@ EC)
12/5/06 - Elmhurst 55 Oshkosh 52 (@ EC)
11/18/06 - Illinois Wesleyan 69 Whitewater 68 (@ WW)

3/4/06 - Illinois Wesleyan 85 Whitewater 71 (@ WW) - NCAA tournament, Round 2
3/4/06 - Augustana 77 Stout 70 (@ AC) - NCAA tournament, Round 2


I think the WIAC was down in 2005-06 and 2006-07.  Top to bottom, I don't think it was better than the CCIW either year...even though the CCIW itself was down in '06-07.  (Neither league had a team in the Elite Eight last year.)  I don't think there is even any debate about 2005-06 -- the CCIW had Augustana and IWU in the tournament (knocking off the WIAC's top 2), but also had Elmhurst and North Central, who were basically dead-even with Augie and IWU.  For that matter, I don't think the WIAC was as good as the UAA either last year.

All we really know at this point is that the WIAC and CCIW are two very good Division III leagues and games between the teams are generally very competitive.  We won't be able to sort out how each conference stacks up nationally until the dust settles in March.

[Greek Tragedy]

I think both Elmhurst and Augie showed that they are able to compete with the big guys in D-3. 

I think this is a ridiculous comment because Elmhurst and Augie ARE the big guys, let alone, compete with the big guys.  They are #1 and #2 in the preseason poll in arguably the best conference in the nation.  Don't sandbag your teams because you lost to Oshkosh and La Crosse.  As Bob mentioned, the CCIW has been better than the WIAC the last few years.

I don't think La Crosse is going to be a national power, let alone compete for the top spot in the WIAC.  Oshkosh, on the other hand, has a very good group of starters.  Their bench is not deep at all though, so that may come into play later in the year.  DJ Marsh is nearly unstoppable.  Dane Seckar-Anderson is a pretty good post player, though he doesn't compare to Ruch.  Matt Miller and Jordan Johnson are good role players and Schrimpf (who went off for 27) is only going to get better.  They could suprise some teams in the WIAC.

Stevens Point is definitely not "head and shoulders" above the rest of the league.  Whitewater, Platteville and Oshkosh will all be fighting them for #1 in the conference.  I predicted at the beginning of the year that the conference winner will have four conference losses...Point only had ONE last year.

[LU_nut]

Old School

As a long time Point fan, you are just being humble.   Point will not lose 4 conference games this year in my view.   they have everyone back and better but Krull.   I agree with your perspective on Marsh.  He was the difference last year when Oshkosh stopped LU three year run.  He slashes to the basket very well.

Point is rated number 2 in the country for good reason (unlike Oshkosh two years ago).   They are as good as anybody and better than anybody in the CCIW this year.(IMO).

Nut

[Titan Q]

Old School

As a long time Point fan, you are just being humble.   Point will not lose 4 conference games this year in my view.   they have everyone back and better but Krull.   I agree with your perspective on Marsh.  He was the difference last year when Oshkosh stopped LU three year run.  He slashes to the basket very well.

Point is rated number 2 in the country for good reason (unlike Oshkosh two years ago).   They are as good as anybody and better than anybody in the CCIW this year.(IMO).

Nut

You throw in that "but Krull" pretty casually.  Jon Krull was a four-year starter for the Pointers and a part of two national championships.  As a senior he averaged 17 points and 5 rebounds.

With Krull, Stevens Point lost in the 3rd Round of the tournament last year at home.

I'm sure the Pointers are outstanding, but they have some proving to do as well.

[iwumichigander]

Dear Pat - HELP!  I keep clicking on CCIW CHAT but I get the WIAC board! Lake Geneva seems to be overflowing into Lake Michigan - send sandbags please

[augiefan]

I think Elmhurst's narrow loss on the road at Oshkosh is encouraging for the Blue Jays. Oshkosh is a solid contender for second place in the WIAC. Augie's loss at home to a second tier WIAC team like LaCrosse on the other hand is quite discouraging. Dansand mentioned Augie's porous defense, but they have also been pretty automatic from the FT line the last couple of years, but came up a little short in that category last night.

The season is young, and this loss should help Coach G get the team's attention. Dain Swetalla also has to start getting his act together night in night out for Augie to live up the preseason hype.

[Gregory Sager]

I wouldn't say that the CCIW was down last season, but I would agree with Bob that it was a parity-filled year in which no one CCIW team really stood out and qualified for national-power status. If a typical CCIW season has two or three national-power teams, from two to four very good teams, and then maybe one or two average-to-poor teams, last season the league had a couple of very good teams, a couple of above-average teams, three or so average teams, and one average-to-poor team. In other words, it was a better league at the bottom and a worse league at the top than it usually is. That's certainly reflected in both the superior cumulative non-conference record that the league posted and the quick exit of the league's sole tourney representative.

It's way too early to get a read on where the CCIW stands this season, but I have some early suspicions that it might be a little down as a whole. The reason is because of the lack of a strong senior class between our eight teams. There are only three seniors this season who are returning All-CCIW players (second-teamers Jordan Delp and Dain Swetalla, and third-teamer Trey Bowens), and when you look up and down the rosters of the eight teams you don't see a lot of contenders among the seniors for another emerging star. Heck, there aren't many other seniors who are even starting this season. Currently there's Neb Francisevic, Darius Gant, Jason Gordon ... and that's it. There's two or three other seniors around the league who may be in the starting lineup by January, but I don't see a massive windfall of Class of '08 talent emerging between now and the end of February.

Seniors usually define strength on a basketball team, and together they usually define strength in a league up and down the standings. The lack of a strong senior class, IMHO, will probably hold the CCIW back a little this season. On the other hand, the league's junior class is incredibly strong, and the early returns on the sophomore and freshman classes are promising. So next season I'll be predicting a banner year across the board for the CCIW.

[Titan Q]

It's way too early to get a read on where the CCIW stands this season, but I have some early suspicions that it might be a little down as a whole. The reason is because of the lack of a strong senior class between our eight teams. There are only three seniors this season who are returning All-CCIW players (second-teamers Jordan Delp and Dain Swetalla, and third-teamer Trey Bowens), and when you look up and down the rosters of the eight teams you don't see a lot of contenders among the seniors for another emerging star. Heck, there aren't many other seniors who are even starting this season. Currently there's Neb Francisevic, Darius Gant, Jason Gordon ... and that's it. There's two or three other seniors around the league who may be in the starting lineup by January, but I don't see a massive windfall of Class of '08 talent emerging between now and the end of February.

Seniors usually define strength on a basketball team, and together they usually define strength in a league up and down the standings. The lack of a strong senior class, IMHO, will probably hold the CCIW back a little this season. On the other hand, the league's junior class is incredibly strong, and the early returns on the sophomore and freshman classes are promising. So next season I'll be predicting a banner year across the board for the CCIW.

D3Hoops.com has been doing an All-American team for 10 seasons now...

http://www.d3hoops.com/tow/allamericans.htm

The CCIW has had at least one senior on one of the teams in 8 of the 10 years:

1997-98 - Brent Niebrugge (IWU)
1998-99 - none
1999-00 - Korey Coon (IWU)
2000-01 - Ryan Knuppel (Elmhurst)
2001-02 - Jason Wiertel (Carthage)
2002-03 - Anthoine McDaniel (Carthage), Luke Kasten (IWU)
2003-04 - Joel Kolmodin (Wheaton), Drew Carstens (Augustana)
2004-05 - none
2005-06 - A. Dauksas (IWU), K. Amelianovich (IWU), R. Harrigan (Augustana),C. Martin (Elmhurst)
2006-07 - Zach Freeman (IWU)

Just taking that back a couple years pre-D3Hoops.com, here are CCIW seniors that I know made some of the various D3 All-American teams around at the time...

1996-97 - Bryan Crabtree (IWU)
1995-96 - Chris Simich (IWU)
 

I just do not see a senior All-American in the CCIW's Class of 2008, so this will most likely be just the 3rd time in 13 years that the league hasn't had an All-American senior.  (Unless, of course, Kent Raymond is considered a senior this year...but he is listed as a JR on the Wheaton roster.)