MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

North Park obviously laid a big, fat egg on Saturday against a RMC-Springfield team that I was pretty sure that the Vikes would beat, or at worst lose to by a couple of points. To get whipped by 17 is another thing entirely. There's every temptation to theorize that this game exposes a weak Vikings team or, to use Bob's language, that it reveals that NPU has "things to figure out."

I'm not so sure that that's the case, though. Bad halves happen. The NPU @ RMCS contest was a one-point game at the half, and the roof caved in for the Vikings in the second half. The Vikings didn't do anything right at either end of the floor, that's for sure ... but I don't foresee many nights ahead in which the five NPU starters will go a combined 12-44 from the floor, or in which their opponents will go 9-13 from beyond the arc.

I'm not writing off this loss entirely, because it did reveal some inherent weaknesses in the Vikings. North Park's shooters seem to have a sort of sympathetic vibe in which they all get hot together or all get cold together. That sort of mass streakiness makes the team very vulnerable when the latter happens. And Corley Lee's 20 and 12 performance demonstrates that NPU is easy pickings for a top-notch opposing center, especially when Mike Ventura is not on the floor -- and Ventura's lack of offensive contribution has basically reduced him to a token starter whose minutes have been reduced in each of the last four games and who was only on the floor for five minutes against RMCS. Still, the Vikings did outrebound the Eagles, 45-36, and rebounding had been a chronic problem for NPU.

One of my biggest concerns is that the Vikings have not demonstrated an ability to beat anyone on the road. In four trips away from the cozy confines of the crackerbox the Vikings are 1-3, with the one win being a rather desultory 13-point win over a Eureka team up in Whitewater, WI that NPU then proceeded to demolish three nights later at Foster & Kedzie. And I'm in complete agreement with Bob that the Vikings have lost a couple of games to teams to whom a first-division CCIW team should not lose.

What worries me more is the fact that the typically weak non-conference schedule that the Vikings are playing will not prepare them adequately for CCIW play. The only team that NPU will have played going into the CCIW season that looks like a bona-fide CCIW-caliber opponent is Loras. CSU-East Bay, North Park's next opponent, is 4-3 and doesn't appear to be a big-time power among northern California small schools. UC-Santa Cruz (1-4) may be better than usual, but it's doubtful that anyone's going to be convinced that the Banana Slugs are a serious opponent for a CCIW team. And Knox (3-4) lost to Millikin by 21 points.

NPU does have a lot of work cut out for it in order to get ready for Augustana on January 9, and I'm not sure that the Park will be in full CCIW mode when it takes the floor that night -- while Augie, given its tough non-conference schedule, will most definitely be ready. Still, I wouldn't let one bad half for NPU be cause to push the panic button. The Vikings are not a perfect team by any stretch of the imagination, but there's still enough talent there to make an impact in this season's CCIW race.

Eureka 63 Blackburn 50
Blackburn 74 Robert Morris-Springfield 67
Robert Morris-Springfield 93 North Park 75
North Park 73 Eureka 48

Don't put much stock in that RMCS @ Blackburn score, Bob. The Eagles didn't have Corley Lee available for that game.

[Gregory Sager]

Nobody's reported this yet, but Saturday's Millikin @ Franklin game has been postponed until January 3.

[petemcb]

What is happening to this board when the rescheduling of a Millikin at Franklin game from the heart of the Christmas rush to the crash of the post-New Year's fog goes largely unnoticed?!  Are we slipping?  Where's the passion?  Where's the zeal?

[Titan Q]

Our----

Lord knows that Titan Q doesn't need me nor anyone else to stick up for him. However, you should realize that of all the posters on the planet, he probably knows more about Illinois Wesleyan than anyone else. I myself have never seen the freshman in question play, and have corresponded with Q regarding my reservations as far as his lofty predictions concerning the young man's ability level---at least at this stage of his college career. However, to discount the assessment of someone who has been as close to the IWU program for as long as TQ has, and who, on top of everything else, is, I believe, the radio broadcast voice of the Titans, seems---as Mr. Spock would say, "illogical."

I think Travis Rosenkranz is going to be a very good player, and I feel the same way about Sean Johnson.  Both of IWU's starting freshmen guards have had moments in the first 8 games of their college careers where you can see what kind of players they will become, and then others where they've looked like freshmen.  Actually, there are moments within each game you can see both the good and the bad.

IWU fans have to keep perspective this year.  Here is a list of the freshmen guards who started at IWU in the last 20 years, and their stats from that season:

Point-guards
Brian Martin, '89-90 - 11.2 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 3.3 apg
Korey Coon, '96-97 - 10.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 2.3 apg
Adam Dauksas, '02-03 - 9.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 3.0 apg
Travis Rosenkranz, '07-08 - 7.9 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 2.5 apg

Shooting-guards
David Kunka, '88-89 - 8.2 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 3.1 apg
Sean Johnson, '07-08 - 9.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 2.9 apg


The previous freshmen starters at guard all had established good players around them.  Kunka had Jeff Kuehl and Mark Edmundson...Martin had Kuehl, Edmundson, and Kunka...Coon had Bryan Crabtree...Dauksas had Luke Kasten, Seth Hubbard, John Camardella, etc.

Rosenkranz and Johnson have 2nd year-starter Darius Gant (9.8 ppg last year), 1st year starter Brett Chamernik, and 1st year starter Jordan Morris around them in the starting lineup, and then 3 other freshmen who come off the bench.  Quite a bit different than having All-Americans Jeff Kuehl, Bryan Crabtree, or Luke Kasten to get the ball to.

Travis Rosenkranz and Sean Johnson will both have their ups and downs this season.  I'm looking forward to seeing both develop though - they're going to be good Titans.

[AndOne]

As we near the holidays it seems to me at this point there are three favorites to contend for the CCIW title:

Augustana (8-1) - After Delp's injury, I was ready to push Augie to about the #2 or #3 spot in my mind, but last night's win was impressive and a sign the Vikings are still a big force in the CCIW race.  Any team that can play defense like Augustana has a chance every night out.

Wheaton (7-1) - I'm starting to think Wheaton has as good of a chance as any team to win it.  The Thunder certainly don't have a lot of depth, but that trio of Raymond, Wiele, and Panner has been terrific.

Elmhurst (4-1) - The outstanding inside/outside combo of Ruch and Burks is good enough to lead the Bluejays to a lot of CCIW wins.  Seems like it is just a matter of guard play...we'll see how Saris does with the PG job.


And it seems like that 4th spot is just completely up for grabs:

Millikin (5-1) - The record is a little deceiving.  Millikin's wins are over Blackburn (1-5), Rose-Hulman (3-6), MacMurray (1-6), Knox (3-4), and Eureka (2-7)...the loss is to Aurora (6-2) at home.  I saw the Millikin/Aurora game and definitely was not real impressed by the Big Blue.

North Central (5-2) - With Drennan the Cardinals may be as good as any of these teams.  Without him, they just seem to be a much different team.  I guess the question becomes, how many CCIW games will he miss? NCC starts @ IWU, vs Wheaton, @ NPU, vs Millikin...I believe this takes the Cards through the 6 weeks he is expected to be out.

North Park (5-3) - The preseason pick to finish 4th by the coaches and I think most of us here....of the Vikings three losses, two are probably the kind the 4th best team in the CCIW doesn't lose (Milwaukee School of Engineering and Robert Morris - Springfield).  Probably still the 4th place favorite, but NPU clearly has things to figure out.

Illinois Wesleyan (4-4) - The Titans appeared to take a big step forward last week at Wash U, but took a big step backwards yesterday at Chicago.  IWU is talented enough to contend for that 4th spot...or could finish 8th.  Who knows.

Carthage (4-4) - What do we make of the Red Men?  It's hard to believe a team could lose to Trinity International and East-West, then turn around and beat an Olivet Nazarene team that's good enough to contend for the CCIW title behind 6-9 NAIA All-American Phil French, Ryan Paxson, and a nice cast.  Carthage seems to be one of the real wild cards in the 2008 race.

Defense, as they say, wins games. As such, I believe the comment about Augie is right on. Plus, they shook off the loss of Delp to post a win over a very tough opponent.

I think the real difference maker so far for Wheaton is Wiele. Last season, he was not that impressive. Actually, I thought he played kinda soft. But, looking like Hercules this year, he has come a long way.

With regard to Elmhurst, its hard to believe the combo of Ruch & Burks isn't one of the best one two punches in D3. As many have observed, their guard play is the question mark. They have apparently switched from Childs to Saris at the point.
However, I believe the best solution to the EC PG "problem" may be anchored to the bench. That being one Marco Macias. I saw Mr. Macias play several times last year and he was outstanding. Prob the best overall combination of the most different facets---ball handling, passing, shooting, defense, leadership---of guard play that I witnessed. If given the opportunity, I would not be surprised if he ultimately proves to be EC's solution to this problem area.

Concerning North Central. With Chris Drennan in the lineup and the other Cardinals playing up to their potential, I don't think there is any question that they are as good as any of the other teams mentioned above. I also don't feel that they'd get an automatic L when facing AC, WC, or EC.
As Titan indicates, they ARE a different team with Chris out of the lineup. Prior to his injury/surgery, Chris has raised his game significantly on all levels. While the loss of his 19 ppg and 8 rpg certainly hurts, its my observation that NCC is that different team due to the breakup of the chemistry that had developed among the starters and top reserves. Said chemistry had come together very nicely among a group of players that were basically strangers at the beginning of practice. Until Chris returns, its up to the other team members to step up and come together to again form a cohesive unit that may not be as impressive individually as some other teams, but whose chemistry makes up significantly for any discrepancy. To this end, I hope the Cards realize that no one man can make up for Chris' loss, and each player needs to increase his level of play a little. The combined small increases in efficiency and productively can together then compensate for what was lost due to the injury. It will be interesting to see if they can achieve this objective. If so, they can certainly stay in the thick of things.

I'll leave comments concerning the remaining teams to other CCIW posters who are much more intimately familiar with them.

[OurHouse]

It sounds like IWU sophomore point-guard Sean Dwyer (out since game #2 last year - 2 broken feet) and junior guard Andrew Gilmore (off-season surgery on both knees) both received positive news this week...

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/12/15/sports/doc476341242f46d940713436.txt

Dwyer should be ready to go by IWU's first CCIW game (Jan. 9).  Gilmore's status isn't quite as clear, but at least there is still a chance he can contribute this season...it was starting to sound like he'd be shutdown for the remainder of 2007-08.

Getting Sean Dwyer back would really help the Titans.  Currently, when starting point-guard Travis Rosenkranz leaves the game, Sean Johnson runs the point.  Johnson handles the ball really well for a 2...but he is definitely a 2.  A healthy Dwyer as a backup to Rosenkranz would give the Titans 40 really solid minutes at the point every night out.

Andrew Gilmore had a very good sophomore year, especially considering how much pain he was obviously playing through, and the fact that he was playing out of position (at the point) most of the time.  Gilmore averaged 11.4 points, 2.5 rebounds, and 3.2 assists in 2006-07.  It'd really help IWU to have a healthy Gilmore back in some capacity - he is a difference maker.       

Well, I watched Sean Dwyer play before he broke his feet - there are a couple things he brings to this team that is missing today, not in order:

1) Intensity
2) Leadership
3) Heart
4) Hustle

For you to say he would "play backup" to a freshman is crazy - I have watched Travis play and he is nowhere near the caliper of a Dwyer.

When IWU was one point behind at halftime yesterday at UofC and to get blown out in the second half proves to me that they need Intensity, Heart, Hustle and Leadership - this would not have happened if there was a leader on the floor and something they will not get with the current line-up.

Too bad Dwyer broke his feet....it might take him awhile to get back into "basketball shape" but once this happens and their coach realizes Dwyer's value to his team, they may start winning more games and will stop getting blown out the door!!

-JMHO

Our----

Lord knows that Titan Q doesn't need me nor anyone else to stick up for him. However, you should realize that of all the posters on the planet, he probably knows more about Illinois Wesleyan than anyone else. I myself have never seen the freshman in question play, and have corresponded with Q regarding my reservations as far as his lofty predictions concerning the young man's ability level---at least at this stage of his college career. However, to discount the assessment of someone who has been as close to the IWU program for as long as TQ has, and who, on top of everything else, is, I believe, the radio broadcast voice of the Titans, seems---as Mr. Spock would say, "illogical."

Q/AndOne:

I am not discounting the freshmans ability to play basketball as a point guard nor am I discounting the fact that he may be good....

There is a HUGE difference between a pure point guard that can play basketball ie; dribble, shoot, assist and drive to a pure point guard that can do that PLUS add leadership, hustle, heart and intensity!!

Regardless of ones ability to play basketball, I know in this league, to be really really good, you have to have BOTH~

[AndOne]

Late---

No argument with that!   

The PG who brings the intangibles in addition to the stats is the true star that not only plays well, but makes those around him better too.

All I'm saying is that I'm willing to defer to Q's judgment about Wesleyan players in those areas as I know he is very close to the program there, and is in a position to observe what a player brings to the court in addition to just his pure stats. Thats all.

[Titan Q]

Q/AndOne:

I am not discounting the freshmans ability to play basketball as a point guard nor am I discounting the fact that he may be good....

There is a HUGE difference between a pure point guard that can play basketball ie; dribble, shoot, assist and drive to a pure point guard that can do that PLUS add leadership, hustle, heart and intensity!!

Regardless of ones ability to play basketball, I know in this league, to be really really good, you have to have BOTH~

The funny thing is, if you asked me what I like so much about Travis Rosenkranz as IWU's point-guard for the next 4 CCIW seasons, I'd probably say something real close to "leadership, hustle, heart, and intensity."  I think this ILL. Hoops article written about him last year conveys a lot of those thoughts as well (pages 15-18)...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/tr.pdf

Rosenkranz, who has now played 8 career games, and Sean Dwyer, who has now played 3, are both in the process of adjusting to playing possibly the toughest position on the floor, at the college level.   As a Titan fan, I'm glad to have them both...Rosenkranz and Dwyer both possess those intagibles you mention.

[iwumichigander]

Q - I agree with you.  Rosenkranz puts energy into this team.  Dwyer is still finding his stamina, so why risk injury to Sean?  With all the rehab Sean has done, let him build his stamina first by playing spot roles.

I really like having two guys compete for starting PG.  Riight now, it is up to Rosenkranz to keep the starting job and Dwyer to take it away.  Gilmore is still a few weeks away it seems.  I can see Dwyer plays a 1/2 role from the bench; and, I like the idea of having Rosenkranz/Johnson; Rosenkranz/Dwyer or Dwyer/Johnson on the floor in a rotation and spread the minutes.

[Titan Q]

Final from Southwestern U. in Georgetown, Texas...

Carthage 56
#22 Trinity (TX) 49

The Red Men led the entire game I believe.  Freshman scoring machine Steve Djurickovic led the way for Carthage once again, finishing with 20.

Pat Cunningham's Trinity Tigers came in with a perfect 6-0 record.  Carthage seems to have things turned around...Olivet Nazarene and Trinity are good teams.

[Gregory Sager]

I saw Trinity (TX) at the Midway Classic last month, and I characterized it at the time as being about fortieth-in-the-nation-ish; in other words, a team that gets a few scattered points in the Top 25 poll and appears at the bottom of the Others Receiving Votes category. The Tigers are good, but don't be wowed by that 6-0 record that they brought into tonight's game.

Nevertheless, this game was played in a gym with which the Tigers are very familiar (that of their south Texas and SCAC archrival Southwestern), so it was the next best thing to a home game for them. This is thus a good win for Carthage, a team which has pulled off one of the most drastic U-turns in the space of two weeks that I can ever remember.

[markerickson]

Having never played competitive, non-intramural basketball since being a starter on the 8th grade B squad, I offer this insight.  Guard the trey better.  This applies to many teams, especially North Park.  I am not surprised that RMS got hot and kept hitting the shots.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Well, Carthage does it again - posters on pickems had Trinity unanimously.  Just like they had Carthage OVER East-West unanimously, and ONU over Carthage nearly unanimously.

Like I suggested last week, the ultimate solution for the battle with the NCAA is not just separating Red from men, it is a total name change:

Ladies and Gentlemen, the Carthage Enigmas!

[Gregory Sager]

The Red Men are really only an enigma when you look at their opponents first, Chuck. That's an easy thing to do, and it's very tempting, but I think that it's time that we started looking at the Red Men first. And when you do that, the picture becomes much clearer, because Carthage is clearly following a straight line in terms of the way the last couple of weeks have gone for Bosko & Co. OK, so that straight line is almost vertical, but it's nevertheless a straight line from the horrific 18-point loss to TIU to the bizarre but relatively narrow loss to EWU to the nailbiting home win over Oli Naz to tonight's long-distance road win over a ranked Trinity (TX) team that felled the Tigers from the unbeaten ranks.

If you're a Carthage fan, the most gratifying thing about tonight's win is that Sean Fendley finally saw action after having missed the entire season to date with a broken foot. He only scored three points in 18 minutes of action, but he nevertheless represents a third legitimate scoring option for a team that has basically been a two-man operation to date (Djurickovic's 19 and Bowens' 13 represented 32 of Carthage's 56 points this evening).

[David Collinge]

Like I suggested last week, the ultimate solution for the battle with the NCAA is not just separating Red from men, it is a total name change:

Are you suggesting that Carthago delenda est?

(Pardon the Punic pun.)