MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mr. Ypsi]

I'd also like to thank AndOne for planting the image of a bunch of North Park students dressed in Kilts dancing "sinfully erotic" in Wheaton's gym.


........I may not get much sleep tonight.

I worry about you sometimes, but +k!

I had forgotten about that final game, but I'd expect a double-digit line anyway.

[Gregory Sager]

Second,  here is a question for all.....when is the last time you saw a 3-second lane violation called?

One was called against NPU last night at Wheaton.

[usee]

Was I the only one in King Arena that heard the wheatie coach rip #21 a new butt hole? The biggest beef I had (sitting front row, I heard it loud and clear) with his screaming, shrieking approach was that he never actually told the poor kid what he did wrong. He just repeated at least a half dozen times how stupid the kid was.  That's pretty classless.

This is the first time I've ever heard Bill Harris called "classless."

If Bill Harris is classless then guys like Bosko and Giavonni must be Satan. That's one of the more ridiculous things I've seen on here.

Its also the first time I have heard a coach labeled as "classless" for coaching his players.

[Gregory Sager]

Question to the Prikkel, Q, Sager and Mr. B (or anyone else who might know):  What is the most teams that have made received a tournament bid from the CCIW.  And, what is the over-under on the number that make it this year?

Not sure if its the record, but it would seem like it w/b hard to beat---In the 2005-06 season, 3 CCIW teams made the national tourney following the inaugural CCIW conference tourney:
1. North Central--22/5 after the conf. tourney (Conf. tourney winner)
2. Augie--21/5
3. Wesleyan--20/6

I don't believe there is a set number as far as making the tourney--GS, TQ, Mr.Y or someone else can explain the intricacies far better than I can. The only conference team guaranteed a spot in the national tourney is the winner of the CCIW conference tourney. If all the conference teams keep knocking each other off during the remainder of the season, the conference tourney winning team may well be the only CCIW representative this year.

The CCIW had had three teams make the tourney on three occasions. The second and third, as Bob pointed out, were in 2001 and in 2006. The first was in 1990, when conference champ North Central and at-larges Illinois Wesleyan and North Park all made the tourney.

As AO said, there is no set number attached to how many teams can make the tourney. On several occasions there have been as many as four teams from one conference make the D3 tourney, although the CCIW's never had more than three in one year. Basically, once the automatic bids have been handed out to each conference, and the Pool B (independent and non-qualifying conferences) bids have been handed out as well, every team in the nation that's left is all put into one big pile regardless of conference ... that pile being Pool C. In other words, conference affiliation no longer matters when you get to the at-large stage of the selection process.

[usee]

Honest question, are there any Wheaties on the board that would care to share their thoughts on the situation regarding our Crazies?  I'm certainly not saying that the ejection of NP fans affected the outcome of the contest, but it really was pretty disgusting to kick college student out into the cold for not really doing anything wrong.  The only thing I could think was that the Host team was just embarrassed about being out-fanned in their home arena.

I wasn't there so can't be certain what happened. I have been there before when it has happened (vs elmhurst, vs NCC, vs IWU in past years) and I can tell you a few things that may have been a factor:

1-be certain it wasn't organized or thoughtful whatever the reason.
2-be fairly certain it was reactionary and paranoid.
3-could easily have been a strategy to weaken the NPU support

I say number 3 simply because it wasn't a big crowd (due to cold and holiday weekend) and Bill Stukes (who has run the facility and managed all the games and equipment for years) is very astute. It isn't unreasonable to think he called in the dogs just to distract the crazies and weaken their support. I doubt Stukes asked anyone for their opinion and likely acted on his own. Just my opinion.

[Gregory Sager]

So far as I know, NO conference has ever placed four teams in the tourney (if one ever does it will probably be the UAA because they are dispersed among at least four regions),

The NJAC did it several times in the '90s, Chuck, and the WIAC's done it as well on at least one occasion.

[Titan Q]

The CCIW had had three teams make the tourney on two occasions. The second, as AO pointed out, was in 2006. The first was in 1990, when conference champ North Central and at-larges Illinois Wesleyan and North Park all made the tourney.

2001 too.

[Gregory Sager]

Was I the only one in King Arena that heard the wheatie coach rip #21 a new butt hole? The biggest beef I had (sitting front row, I heard it loud and clear) with his screaming, shrieking approach was that he never actually told the poor kid what he did wrong. He just repeated at least a half dozen times how stupid the kid was.  That's pretty classless.

This is the first time I've ever heard Bill Harris called "classless."

If Bill Harris is classless then guys like Bosko and Giavonni must be Satan. That's one of the more ridiculous things I've seen on here.

Its also the first time I have heard a coach labeled as "classless" for coaching his players.

Bill Harris is many things, but "classless" is not one of them. I'd happily let Bill coach my team anyday.

Honest question, are there any Wheaties on the board that would care to share their thoughts on the situation regarding our Crazies?  I'm certainly not saying that the ejection of NP fans affected the outcome of the contest, but it really was pretty disgusting to kick college student out into the cold for not really doing anything wrong.  The only thing I could think was that the Host team was just embarrassed about being out-fanned in their home arena.

I wasn't there so can't be certain what happened. I have been there before when it has happened (vs elmhurst, vs NCC, vs IWU in past years) and I can tell you a few things that may have been a factor:

1-be certain it wasn't organized or thoughtful whatever the reason.
2-be fairly certain it was reactionary and paranoid.
3-could easily have been a strategy to weaken the NPU support

I say number 3 simply because it wasn't a big crowd (due to cold and holiday weekend) and Bill Stukes (who has run the facility and managed all the games and equipment for years) is very astute. It isn't unreasonable to think he called in the dogs just to distract the crazies and weaken their support. I doubt Stukes asked anyone for their opinion and likely acted on his own. Just my opinion.

Is Bill Stukes the older black gentleman who always wears the Wheaton ball cap? He was the one on the two-way radio who called for the heavy backup after the Wheaton football players who were working security put the kibosh on the timeout pyramid attempt by the Crazies. There were originally only two cops present, but after that radio call eight more of them showed up in a big hurry. That would seem to bear out your #3 theory, usee.

[usee]

Was I the only one in King Arena that heard the wheatie coach rip #21 a new butt hole? The biggest beef I had (sitting front row, I heard it loud and clear) with his screaming, shrieking approach was that he never actually told the poor kid what he did wrong. He just repeated at least a half dozen times how stupid the kid was.  That's pretty classless.

This is the first time I've ever heard Bill Harris called "classless."

If Bill Harris is classless then guys like Bosko and Giavonni must be Satan. That's one of the more ridiculous things I've seen on here.

Its also the first time I have heard a coach labeled as "classless" for coaching his players.

Bill Harris is many things, but "classless" is not one of them. I'd happily let Bill coach my team anyday.

Honest question, are there any Wheaties on the board that would care to share their thoughts on the situation regarding our Crazies?  I'm certainly not saying that the ejection of NP fans affected the outcome of the contest, but it really was pretty disgusting to kick college student out into the cold for not really doing anything wrong.  The only thing I could think was that the Host team was just embarrassed about being out-fanned in their home arena.

I wasn't there so can't be certain what happened. I have been there before when it has happened (vs elmhurst, vs NCC, vs IWU in past years) and I can tell you a few things that may have been a factor:

1-be certain it wasn't organized or thoughtful whatever the reason.
2-be fairly certain it was reactionary and paranoid.
3-could easily have been a strategy to weaken the NPU support

I say number 3 simply because it wasn't a big crowd (due to cold and holiday weekend) and Bill Stukes (who has run the facility and managed all the games and equipment for years) is very astute. It isn't unreasonable to think he called in the dogs just to distract the crazies and weaken their support. I doubt Stukes asked anyone for their opinion and likely acted on his own. Just my opinion.

Is Bill Stukes the older black gentleman who always wears the Wheaton ball cap? He was the one on the two-way radio who called for the heavy backup after the Wheaton football players who were working security put the kibosh on the timeout pyramid attempt by the Crazies. There were originally only two cops present, but after that radio call eight more of them showed up in a big hurry. That would seem to bear out your #3 theory, usee.

No the older guy is "C-Train". If he was involved you can almost be certain #2 is the scenario. Train fancy's himself a security guru and I would be pretty certain paranoia and reactionism was at the root of this. CTrain could spot an unruly grandmother at a retirement home bingo party.

[Gregory Sager]

Several pages have rolled passed...

How did NP hold Raymond to 10 shots?

Alot of it comes down to what Greg has preached for a year and a half now... that Antonio Stevens is quite possibly the best perimeter defender in the league.  Basically whoever was guarding Raymond just stuck him hard, most often Tone, but also Dan Oz and Jason Gordon (I believe).  Part of it too, I think was that the refs did a very fair job of calling offensive fouls against Raymond, as well as not calling things that he intentionally drew, evidenced by the fact that he was only at the line 5 times. 

Raymond was guarded almost exclusively by Antonio Stevens when he was in the game, except for a brief period in the second half when Paul Brenegan attempted to protect Tone from getting his fourth foul by putting Jason Gordon on the Wheaton superstar. Gordon also guarded Raymond when Stevens wasn't in the game. Oziminski did end up on Raymond a couple of times, but that was on switches. Finally, at certain points in the game NPU went to a 2-3 matchup zone -- unfortunately, those points tended to coincide with Ben Panner burying treys from the deep corner, as that's oftentimes a vulnerable spot in a 2-3 matchup zone when a cutter draws the deep defender up towards the elbow.

As I said last night, NPU game-planned to take away Raymond from the equation for Wheaton as much as possible, and the defensive prowess of Antonio Stevens was a big part of that game plan. But even when Stevens wasn't guarding Raymond, NPU's primary attention was still focused upon the Wheaton junior.

Raymond only had one offensive foul called on him all night. As is true most nights I see Raymond play, the officials could've called a lot more offensive fouls on him; he got away with plenty of hooking and forearm pushes last night. Please understand, though, that I am neither griping about the refs nor badmouthing Kent Raymond. I can think of a couple of other players over the past decade for whom I had similar chronic complaints, Korey Coon and Drew Carstens. Notice a trend? Oftentimes, part of what makes an outstanding player an outstanding player is his knowing just how much he can get away with in a particular game, which is sometimes a matter of feeling out the refs by committing extracurriculars that grow more and more brazen until you reach a point where they call you for it ... at which point you gauge your subsequent behavior accordingly.

Michael Jordan was the acknowledged master at this form of basketball, and many good students of the game have learned it from him. It's not cheating, because it is the responsibility of the officials to blow the whistle when you've committed a foul. It's called "getting away with as much as you can for as long as you can," and it's part of the edge that many good players attempt to gain for themselves.

[John Gleich]

So far as I know, NO conference has ever placed four teams in the tourney (if one ever does it will probably be the UAA because they are dispersed among at least four regions),

The NJAC did it several times in the '90s, Chuck, and the WIAC's done it as well on at least one occasion.

Yep, 1997, Point, Platteville Whitewater and Oshkosh.  That was Platteville's best team that didn't win the championship (set the record for fewest points allowed per game). 

This was before the bids were cut down, and teams routinely had to battle through their conference foes... Platteville topped Oshkosh in the first round, Point topped Platte in the second.

[Mr. Ypsi]

The CCIW had had three teams make the tourney on two occasions. The second, as AO pointed out, was in 2006. The first was in 1990, when conference champ North Central and at-larges Illinois Wesleyan and North Park all made the tourney.

2001 too.

Bob, that's already been pointed out several times (including in the next line of my post that Greg quoted), but you should know by now that Greg never believes anything that a Titan (or a Prikkel) posts!

[tjcummingsfan]

Honest question, are there any Wheaties on the board that would care to share their thoughts on the situation regarding our Crazies?  I'm certainly not saying that the ejection of NP fans affected the outcome of the contest, but it really was pretty disgusting to kick college student out into the cold for not really doing anything wrong.  The only thing I could think was that the Host team was just embarrassed about being out-fanned in their home arena.

I wasn't there so can't be certain what happened. I have been there before when it has happened (vs elmhurst, vs NCC, vs IWU in past years) and I can tell you a few things that may have been a factor:

1-be certain it wasn't organized or thoughtful whatever the reason.
2-be fairly certain it was reactionary and paranoid.
3-could easily have been a strategy to weaken the NPU support

I say number 3 simply because it wasn't a big crowd (due to cold and holiday weekend) and Bill Stukes (who has run the facility and managed all the games and equipment for years) is very astute. It isn't unreasonable to think he called in the dogs just to distract the crazies and weaken their support. I doubt Stukes asked anyone for their opinion and likely acted on his own. Just my opinion.

While Bill Harris may not be classless, if #3 is the reason, the actions of the facility manager sure are. 

I think Scream's language against Harris was a bit strong (though I didn't advise him against speaking strongly against Harris when we were talking after the game, partly because I wanted to see people's reactions), but I understand what he was saying.  Harris called over #21 after some kind of blown play, or missed defensive coverage or something and reamed the kid out, calling him stupid, his play stupid, then sent him to the bench.  From where we were I never saw Harris go explain to the kid what he did wrong, maybe the kid knew from Harris rant what it was, but from what was apparent to the crowd, it was pretty strong. 

[Gregory Sager]

[No the older guy is "C-Train". If he was involved you can almost be certain #2 is the scenario. Train fancy's himself a security guru and I would be pretty certain paranoia and reactionism was at the root of this. CTrain could spot an unruly grandmother at a retirement home bingo party.

LOL!

Mind you, I'm not personally angry about last night's heavy-handed treatment of the Carlson Crazies by the Wheaton event staff and the local cops. Truth be told, I mostly thought that it was pretty funny. It's one of those stories that's tailor-made for sarcastic jests (case in point: AO's speculation that the Crazies must've transgressed the "sinfully erotic" clause in the Wheaton conduct code). On a certain level, I've had all kinds of fun with this story. This morning I asked one of the two Crazies who attends my church if his parents had to bail him out of the Wheaton town jail last night. Plus, I love the fact that this incident will further feed NPU's interesting one-way rivalry with Wheaton.

But I understand the fury of my fellow Parkers and I sympathize with them to some degree, because, let's face it, there's nothing an NPU student or alumnus cherishes more than an opportunity to hold yet another grudge against that orange-colored school in DuPage County. Still, the simple fact of the matter is that Wheaton College is completely within its rights to throw everyone rooting for North Park out into the cold night with total impunity, up to and including NPU athletic director Jack Surridge and his wife and daughter. It's Wheaton's gym, Wheaton's campus, and Wheaton's rules (however arbitrarily applied), and that's that.

My honest concern is with Wheaton's reputation as a host of athletic competitions. As I said last night, all my rivalry-related joshing doesn't change the fact that I have a lot of respect for Wheaton College. But this sort of thing gives the school a black eye. Calling in all of those cops and then throwing Crazies out of the gym willy-nilly was petty, mean-spirited, and smacked of a distinct lack of fair play on the part of the host school. Even if one wasn't aware that the Carlson Crazies are as harmless as a slumber party full of ten-year-old girls, this was still a serious case of crowd-control overkill and inhospitality.

But I will say no more about it, lest I end up whining endlessly about the incident the way that Titan2K did about UWSP seating him and his fellow UWO fans behind the band section in Quandt Fieldhouse however many years ago that unfortunate bee was placed in his bonnet.

[Pat Coleman]

Its also the first time I have heard a coach labeled as "classless" for coaching his players.

Unless it's during an opponent's free throw, you mean? Not going to go back into the archives but I think some have used that word.