MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

Regardless that "Covenant" can only apply to Wheaton students, and is no grounds for removing opposing fans. 

Mind you, I'm not personally angry about last night's heavy-handed treatment of the Carlson Crazies by the Wheaton event staff and the local cops. Truth be told, I mostly thought that it was pretty funny. It's one of those stories that's tailor-made for sarcastic jests (case in point: AO's speculation that the Crazies must've transgressed the "sinfully erotic" clause in the Wheaton conduct code). On a certain level, I've had all kinds of fun with this story. This morning I asked one of the two Crazies who attends my church if his parents had to bail him out of the Wheaton town jail last night. Plus, I love the fact that this incident will further feed NPU's interesting one-way rivalry with Wheaton.

But I understand the fury of my fellow Parkers and I sympathize with them to some degree, because, let's face it, there's nothing an NPU student or alumnus cherishes more than an opportunity to hold yet another grudge against that orange-colored school in DuPage County. Still, the simple fact of the matter is that Wheaton College is completely within its rights to throw everyone rooting for North Park out into the cold night with total impunity, up to and including NPU athletic director Jack Surridge and his wife and daughter. It's Wheaton's gym, Wheaton's campus, and Wheaton's rules (however arbitrarily applied), and that's that.

My honest concern is with Wheaton's reputation as a host of athletic competitions. As I said last night, all my rivalry-related joshing doesn't change the fact that I have a lot of respect for Wheaton College. But this sort of thing gives the school a black eye. Calling in all of those cops and then throwing Crazies out of the gym willy-nilly was petty, mean-spirited, and smacked of a distinct lack of fair play on the part of the host school. Even if one wasn't aware that the Carlson Crazies are as harmless as a slumber party full of ten-year-old girls, this was still a serious case of crowd-control overkill and inhospitality.

TJ----

Of course you're correct about the Wheaton Covenant applying only to Wheaton students. My thinking and intent in making reference to said Covenant was solely to show the lengths to which the WC administrators may have gone to insure and promote their idea of a "wholesome" environment, especially as the event in question was taking place on the grounds of the WC campus community.

GS---

My thanks and congrats for your picking up on the fact that in quoting the Wheaton Covenant, and especially the "sinfully erotic" terminology contained therein, I was merely invoking what I had hoped would be taken as a sarcastic jest with regard to the length that the powers that be might go to promote their agenda. Sometimes, we all need to lighten up a bit. I think the events and subsequent action taken at King Arena the other night illustrate this point perfectly, and that those previously  enumerated events begged for a bit of sarcasm in response to the over the top reaction by the WC administrators. I sincerely doubt that the NPU students actions would have caused the walls to come tumbling down. Secondly, it was intended as an off-handed compliment to the Crazies for "stirring the pot" a bit. Amen. 

[Scream]

Was I the only one in King Arena that heard the wheatie coach rip #21 a new butt hole? The biggest beef I had (sitting front row, I heard it loud and clear) with his screaming, shrieking approach was that he never actually told the poor kid what he did wrong. He just repeated at least a half dozen times how stupid the kid was.  That's pretty classless.

This is the first time I've ever heard Bill Harris called "classless."

If Bill Harris is classless then guys like Bosko and Giavonni must be Satan. That's one of the more ridiculous things I've seen on here.

Its also the first time I have heard a coach labeled as "classless" for coaching his players.

Here's the deal: yelling at a player without telling them why you're yelling is not coaching.  For the record, I don't know enough about Harris to call him classless, I just think that particular situation was pretty sad and definitely lacking class.

[Mugsy]

I would be remiss if I didn't give a shout-out to the Carlson Crazies, who were terrific tonight. It was dueling theme nights in King Arena -- Braveheart Night for the Crazies, Superhero Night for the Wheaton football players -- and the Crazies were at their loud and boisterous best. They even brought a bagpiper with them, which brought a hearty round of applause from the CCIW's most conspicuous bagpiper, Marc Horner (NPC '92).

Unfortunately, the Wheaton event staff did everything within their power to throw cold water on the Crazies, including calling out an entire phalanx of Wheaton police officers. There were about a dozen Barney Fifes present by the end of the game (I kept wondering which one had the bullet) who were pointing out Crazies at random and tossing them out of the building, as apparently someone in the gym must've tipped off the WPD that there were a bunch of young males from the big city loose on the Wheaton campus and that they should do something about it. Well, if a bunch of goofy-looking white boys in kilts and blue paint are what passes for the Latin Kings in Wheaton, then some of the locals should get out more.

I jest, but it honestly made Wheaton look bad. The Crazies weren't doing anything out of the ordinary -- and, in fact, I think that they got themselves in more hot water with les gendarmes by correctly pointing out that they weren't doing anything different than their superhero-clad alter egos from Wheaton who were sitting behind the opposite basket. Nobody uttered any words that would've made their mothers wash their mouths out with soap. Nobody got physical. Nobody threw anything. Ostensibly the crackdown came because the piper played "Scotland Forever" and the Crazies got down on the walkway between the endline and the bleachers -- at halftime, when there were no players on the floor -- and danced the Highland fling. During a timeout in the second half they attempted to construct a pyramid ... and it was at that point that the event staff came over to break it up and simultaneously called out the cops. It was a total case of overkill by the Wheaton College event staff and the Wheaton Police Department.

They were just a bunch of college kids having good, clean, loud fun. In spite of my rivalry jests, I have a lot of respect for Wheaton College; but the way that the Crazies were treated tonight made Wheaton College look like a poor host.

It really was embarrassing for Wheaton.  I have to believe North Park has the 2nd cleanest student section in the conference, if they are getting harrassed by what must have been the majority of Wheaton's police force, what will it be like when other students come?  It was just blatantly inconsistent on the part of the event management, and hopefully will be addressed by Jack Surridge in some way. 

It may look as the Wheaton administration went overboard on calling the Wheaton police (and perhaps rightfully so - I wasn't at the game).  However, I will say historically it is the Wheaton police force that often goes overboard on the number of officiers they deploy.

From personal experience:

Case #1:
In 1988, one of the Wheaton football players play a prank on a pizza delivery guy and moved his car to the other side of the dorm while he delivered a pizza.  Granted not a really smart prank, but harmless none the less.  An up tight, "I'd rather be studying" and have no idea what fun is female student informed the delivery guy of what happened and called the police.  I'm not sure what was communicated to the police, because as 8-10 of us were watching David Letterman we got a knock at the door on the 7th floor.  When we opened the door there were no less than 12 policemen in the hallway.  What exactly did they think we were going to do?  No one even knew that the prank even happened.  Meanwhile there are cop cars all over in front of the dorm... cops everywhere looking like they were expecting a riot.  It was almost scary with how much they over reacted.

Case #2:
Without going into details of a school tradition that no one outside Wheaton cares about (much less 75% of the Wheaton student body who could care less), every year there is a cat and mouse game for which class has possession of the "senior bench" - a concrete bench that used to sit outside of the student center where seniors would congregate.  The junior class stole the senior bench back in the 50's and the game was on...

Anyway... it was the last week of school in 1988 and the seniors who possess the bench announced there would be "a revealing" of the bench so that the other classes could battle to win possession.  Turns out the seniors left a trail of clues to the location, which led to a field on campus.  Before long there were 200-300 kids all battling to get the 300-400lb slab of concrete into the trunk of their cars.  It was a 2 hour brawl in pouring down rain.  A harmless brawl, but to someone passing by it might be alarming.  This time the campus police called the Wheaton police.  They sent out the "swat team" truck full of armed police.  After finding out what was really going on, the police left and the "brawl" went on.

Having lived in Wheaton for over 37 years, I've learned that if something requires police attention, you'll get more than you really need.  In most cases it is comforting... in some cases it ends up looking ridiculous.

To me what is crazy about the whole thing is that there has always been some fun associated with the rivalry between Wheaton and North Park, but I can not think of a single case where it has become violent at all.  I can see having secuity at any sporting event, but primarily campus police.  I can see rare cases that require bring a local police squad in (1-3 police).  But it sounds like this was way overboard...

[usee]

Was I the only one in King Arena that heard the wheatie coach rip #21 a new butt hole? The biggest beef I had (sitting front row, I heard it loud and clear) with his screaming, shrieking approach was that he never actually told the poor kid what he did wrong. He just repeated at least a half dozen times how stupid the kid was.  That's pretty classless.

This is the first time I've ever heard Bill Harris called "classless."

If Bill Harris is classless then guys like Bosko and Giavonni must be Satan. That's one of the more ridiculous things I've seen on here.

Its also the first time I have heard a coach labeled as "classless" for coaching his players.

Here's the deal: yelling at a player without telling them why you're yelling is not coaching.  For the record, I don't know enough about Harris to call him classless, I just think that particular situation was pretty sad and definitely lacking class.

Well, you did call him classless so I guess we accept your apology.

Also, I think you should know enough about coaching to know that during the battle (read: game) is not always the time to stop and correct a player. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. typically a coach chooses when to teach his players and just like a professor won't stop you in the middle of a midterm exam and explain why you missed a question, a coach may not stop in the middle of a game to explain what you did wrong. Be assured, however, that player was instructed at some point what he did wrong. You can't take one incident out of context and label a coach "classless". that's pretty weak.

[Mugsy]

Honest question, are there any Wheaties on the board that would care to share their thoughts on the situation regarding our Crazies?  I'm certainly not saying that the ejection of NP fans affected the outcome of the contest, but it really was pretty disgusting to kick college student out into the cold for not really doing anything wrong.  The only thing I could think was that the Host team was just embarrassed about being out-fanned in their home arena.

So the ejected students did absolutely nothing inappropriate?

I'm not saying it is reason to be kicked out, but a bunch of students going out onto the court, even along the baselines "COULD" be grounds for dismissal.  I don't think I would have removed them for that, but by rule it would be permissible.  I can't say definitively because I wasn't there and I didn't see what happened.

[usee]

Its also the first time I have heard a coach labeled as "classless" for coaching his players.

Unless it's during an opponent's free throw, you mean? Not going to go back into the archives but I think some have used that word.

I was well aware of those commentaries when I wrote that. I would argue he isn't "coaching" his kids in those moments. He appears to be but obviously there is more going on for Coach G.  

[Mugsy]

Honest question, are there any Wheaties on the board that would care to share their thoughts on the situation regarding our Crazies?  I'm certainly not saying that the ejection of NP fans affected the outcome of the contest, but it really was pretty disgusting to kick college student out into the cold for not really doing anything wrong.  The only thing I could think was that the Host team was just embarrassed about being out-fanned in their home arena.

So the ejected students did absolutely nothing inappropriate?

Whats "inappropriate" at Wheaton may just be considered good clean fun at most other colleges/universities. After all, the NPU students, per Greg's post, were dancing!!  .  See my earlier post above covering Wheaton's philosophy covering this activity.

BTW... dancing is now allowed at Wheaton, so the whole dancing is inappropriate slant doesn't jive.

[REDMENFAN]

Here's the article from yesterday's paper about the Carthage game.  It was alumni night, and Jason Wiertel was interviewed and has a couple comments in the article.  Congrats Redmen, keep it up!!

http://ksn.kenoshanews.com/view_article.php?articleNum=969698438

[usee]

Honest question, are there any Wheaties on the board that would care to share their thoughts on the situation regarding our Crazies?  I'm certainly not saying that the ejection of NP fans affected the outcome of the contest, but it really was pretty disgusting to kick college student out into the cold for not really doing anything wrong.  The only thing I could think was that the Host team was just embarrassed about being out-fanned in their home arena.

So the ejected students did absolutely nothing inappropriate?

I'm not saying it is reason to be kicked out, but a bunch of students going out onto the court, even along the baselines "COULD" be grounds for dismissal.  I don't think I would have removed them for that, but by rule it would be permissible.  I can't say definitively because I wasn't there and I didn't see what happened.

I am relatively certain whatever the reasons this happened that it was a complete over reaction by a small number of people (I agree with Mugsy' wheaton police thoughts). The school is far from infallible and as an alumni it drives me nuts to see stuff like this go on. I wish I could say I was surprised this happened but I'm not.

I am also done talking about it.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

Its also the first time I have heard a coach labeled as "classless" for coaching his players.

Unless it's during an opponent's free throw, you mean? Not going to go back into the archives but I think some have used that word.

I was well aware of those commentaries when I wrote that. I would argue he isn't "coaching" his kids in those moments. He appears to be but obviously there is more going on for Coach G.  

IMUHO Bill Harris is the best coach in the CCIW - having said that - at times Bill Harris - and any CCIW coach for that matter - shies towards classless - some do it more than others.

That Bill Harris treated me with contempt when I was CCIW publicity director and open animosity when I was North Park's scorekeeper notwithstanding - he's a great coach - he proved that two years ago when he took a motley crew of wannabe's and made the conference tournament leaving scarred and defeated Vikings and Titans in his wake.

I have, however, seen him express his displeasure at some of his players in a most forceful - ex-marine drill sargeant type way - during games.  Blood roils - tempis fugit - semper fidelis.

DoS

[Dennis_Prikkel]

Bill Stukes has literally been around Wheaton his entire life - a lifer - he is Dan McCarrell's nephew - and his grandfather McCarrell, a Cicero Bible Church preacher, was on the Wheaton board for 42 years.  Dan McCarrell was the only one of his father's many offspring who did not receive a Wheaton degree.

DoS

[usee]

Honest question, are there any Wheaties on the board that would care to share their thoughts on the situation regarding our Crazies?  I'm certainly not saying that the ejection of NP fans affected the outcome of the contest, but it really was pretty disgusting to kick college student out into the cold for not really doing anything wrong.  The only thing I could think was that the Host team was just embarrassed about being out-fanned in their home arena.

So the ejected students did absolutely nothing inappropriate?

Whats "inappropriate" at Wheaton may just be considered good clean fun at most other colleges/universities. After all, the NPU students, per Greg's post, were dancing!!  .  See my earlier post above covering Wheaton's philosophy covering this activity.

BTW... dancing is now allowed at Wheaton, so the whole dancing is inappropriate slant doesn't jive.

While wheaton recently changed its "code of conduct" for those weak willed, happy feet hip hoppers, I believe it only applies to off campus activity. Dancing is still on the no-no list for on campus if I am not mistaken.  8)

[Mugsy]

Honest question, are there any Wheaties on the board that would care to share their thoughts on the situation regarding our Crazies?  I'm certainly not saying that the ejection of NP fans affected the outcome of the contest, but it really was pretty disgusting to kick college student out into the cold for not really doing anything wrong.  The only thing I could think was that the Host team was just embarrassed about being out-fanned in their home arena.

So the ejected students did absolutely nothing inappropriate?

Whats "inappropriate" at Wheaton may just be considered good clean fun at most other colleges/universities. After all, the NPU students, per Greg's post, were dancing!!  .  See my earlier post above covering Wheaton's philosophy covering this activity.

BTW... dancing is now allowed at Wheaton, so the whole dancing is inappropriate slant doesn't jive.

While wheaton recently changed its "code of conduct" for those weak willed, happy feet hip hoppers, I believe it only applies to off campus activity. Dancing is still on the no-no list for on campus if I am not mistaken.  8)

Yup... I'm just tired of hearing the "you can't dance" garbage, since it is so absolutely trival.  As if it is in the top 1000 of what traits identify who I am...  I wouldn't have danced even if I were allowed too.

[tjcummingsfan]

IMUHO Bill Harris is the best coach in the CCIW - having said that - at times Bill Harris - and any CCIW coach for that matter - shies towards classless - some do it more than others.

I think that hits exactly what Scream was getting at, that the act was classless, not the coach.

[tjcummingsfan]

Honest question, are there any Wheaties on the board that would care to share their thoughts on the situation regarding our Crazies?  I'm certainly not saying that the ejection of NP fans affected the outcome of the contest, but it really was pretty disgusting to kick college student out into the cold for not really doing anything wrong.  The only thing I could think was that the Host team was just embarrassed about being out-fanned in their home arena.

So the ejected students did absolutely nothing inappropriate?

Whats "inappropriate" at Wheaton may just be considered good clean fun at most other colleges/universities. After all, the NPU students, per Greg's post, were dancing!!  .  See my earlier post above covering Wheaton's philosophy covering this activity.

BTW... dancing is now allowed at Wheaton, so the whole dancing is inappropriate slant doesn't jive.

While wheaton recently changed its "code of conduct" for those weak willed, happy feet hip hoppers, I believe it only applies to off campus activity. Dancing is still on the no-no list for on campus if I am not mistaken.  8)

Yup... I'm just tired of hearing the "you can't dance" garbage, since it is so absolutely trival.  As if it is in the top 1000 of what traits identify who I am...  I wouldn't have danced even if I were allowed too.

It's much less a comment about individuals, rather  the institution