MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[cardinalfanrochelle]

mwunder,
              No rip on anyone, I feel everyone should be respected for their opinion. When Titan Q put the post up that was his opinion, but he should also respect the other opinions of the posters and not judge how long a subject should go on because he feels it's annoying but as long as there is an interest in the subject, keep on posting. Because someone throws out more stats or more post doesn't mean they deserve more respect than people with less post to their credit, it's just they have more to share with the chat room. When I read post where people are being called names for what they post come on cut them some slack, it's their preception of the subject.Yes it can be had both ways as long as it's interesting to other people.As long as it's not personal or not in bad taste or crossing the line, post anything you want. Wouldn't it be really boring if there were 4 people who post and everyone went along with them?My post to Titan Q was not an attack or personal just IMHO and I wanted to share that. I enjoy reading what he puts up, I may not agree with it all the time but what the hey I can disagree. Titan Q puts his pants on like everyone elso and does not to be put on a alter just respected for HHO.

[AndOne]

First time post this season. Random thoughts:

1) When is the last time the best player in the CCIW has been a freshman? Never I would assume. If my assumption is true, then the logical assumption is that the league is down/weak.

2) I've seen only 3 league games (IWU vs. N.C., M.U., and EC). But from what I have seen and from conservations with others who have seen all of the CCIW teams, my opinion is that Elmhurst has the most talent. But that's not unusual. And usually Elmhurst manages a way to squander its opportunities (referring to the few successes Elmhurst has had in NCAA tournament appearances).

1) As to your first point, having seen Raymond and Djurickovic, I would have to agree with Q that right now I would take Raymond strictly because of his shooting ability.  If Djurickovic develops a consistent 3 point shot, this kid could be the best player in CCIW recent memory.  Knowing the way the kid works on his game in the gym, and the way that Bosko is an extremely intelligent coach, leads me to believe that is exactly what Steve will work on this off season.  Going back a few pages and referring to whether or not Steve is being held back by his dad coaching and him playing at the d3 level, I would tend to say yes.  Steve could be doing many of the same things that he is doing at a division 1 level.  Steve could play right now for a Northwestern or a Northern Illinois and average 12-15 points a game.  The fact that he is only 165 doesnt hurt him, it helps him because he continues to get bumped and knocked to the floor which in return yields a foul call.  Raymond on the other hand may take a similar hit and plays through the contact, which may or may not yield that same foul call.  Either way, they are both great players and fun to watch the way they take over and lead their teams.

2) As far as your post of Elmhurst having the most talent, I may politely disagree.  While I agree that Ruch and Burks are both very good players, after those two the talent just isnt there.  Carthage played them in a box with one man fronting Ruch the whole game.  They essentially let everyone other than Burks shoot the basketball.  Not just from 3 but from 16-17 ft.  Everyone talked about how great of a coaching job Bosko did that game, and it turned out that the players not name Ruch or Burks cannot beat you.  I would tend to say that Carthage or Wheaton are the most talented teams from early conference play.  Take a look at the PPG in conference that was just posted by Q.  Carthage has 4 players averaging double figures, Wheaton has 3.  Going along with that these two teams also have the two best players in the league that can at any moment take over the game.  Just some observations...  Should be another fun week...

1. Its too early yet to say which is the best team in the league.
2. To say weighing 165 helps Steve D because it enables him to continually get bumped and knocked to the floor resulting in foul shots is very short-sited. Ever consider the high degree of possibility that the continued pounding may well result in a serious injury at some point?
3. Speaking of injuries---and like I said, you never know when the injury bug will bite---where do you think Augie would be with Delp, and North Central if it hadn't missed Drennan for an extended stretch, and now with Williams out?
4. Concentrating on PPG as referenced above is also short-sited. There are many more components to consider when evaluating a team than merely making a decision based solely on PPG. Its a good start, but you need more than scorers to have a really good/great team.
5. In looking strictly at the PPG category, while CC has the top scorer currently in Steve D, but in considering any category, I think its important to look at a combination of the top TWO players in a particular area. Based on that, I think you would have to say that WC is getting the best (scoring) play from the guard position with Raymond & Panner, North Central is strongest at forward with Rogers & Drennan, and EC has the best inside-outside combo with Burks & Ruch.
6. So, again, which team is the best one right now---again, its too early to tell. Which team can play the best defense?, which can sustain the success its had so far?, which will have an as yet unheralded player step up?, which can avoid the injury bug? Theres just too many questions that still need to be answered.

[iwumichigander]

This sort of wording shouldn't be unfamiliar to fans -- it's standard boilerplate that's been in use for more than a decade with only minor tweaks.

Exactly, and in the CCIW, the public address announcers (or recorded messages) make the statement, or similiar, prior to every game.

[REDMENFAN]

Not to sound rude, but why does it matter if he develops a consistent 3 point shot when the guy penetrates to the whole and makes a ton of shots while getting fouled? If Steve puts up 25-30 a game I don't think many people care if he can consistently shoot the 3. You also have to look at who Steve has around him, Fendley, Bowens, Schmerdiak. All can shoot the 3.

Because, if he can't hit the 3, people are going to sag back off of him and pack all 5 guys in the lane and make him shoot that shot.  Basketball 101.  Take away the comfort zone.  He actually passed up an open look on a break from the right side on Sat.  He got it wide open in the right corner, looked at the rim, passed it back to the right wing and got it right back...took the still open shot and missed.  He had a chance to think about it just a bit and didn't pull the trigger the first time, then when he got it back and let 'er rip, he was still thinking about it.  Hitting that J is something that he's going to have to work on.  It will only make the rest of his game that much better.


I'm happy as heck that Steve D decided to play for his dad at Carthage.  Am I ready to hand him the keys to the kingdom yet?  Nope.  He hit some very tough shots against Augie on Sat night this is true.  But, he has some weak spots in his game too.  He's not all that big physically and he will wear down over the course of a tough CCIW season.  Touching the ball as much as he does will lead to him getting pushed, shoved, hacked, etc for 37 minutes a night.  He favors the right side of the floor and didn't go to his left with nearly the same effectiveness.

I'm going to go against the grain and say that 2113 is safe.

Just figured I'd throw in what I think.  While knowing how hard Steve works, I'm sure he'll tirelessly work on his 3-point shot. Not that its terrible right now, I'd say its at least adequate for defenders to have to respect it.  With that said, this is an 18 year old kid putting up unreal numbers with what he's limited with right now.  The most improvements in a college player, imo, are made between their fresh. and soph. years.  Maybe he won't put up the same point totals, maybe he'll put up more, that's not necessarily an indication of a player improving.  I guess what I'm trying to say is sure the kid has some things to work on, every player at every level does.  But Steve does some things exceptionally well, and as long as he doesn't lose that by only focusing on what people thing are his weaknesses, he'll remain a special player in this league for 3 1/2 more seasons.

[sac]

I saw Djurickovic over 2 days in Grand Rapids, I thought he was one of the smartest Freshman players I can remember.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I saw Djurickovic over 2 days in Grand Rapids, I thought he was one of the smartest Freshman players I can remember.

As a neutral observer who I believe also saw Raymond twice as a freshman, care to weigh in on them AS freshmen?

[RedMan1]

Mwunder- You make a great point about Basketball 101 and 5 guys packing down into the lane, but what happens when Bowens or Fendley are making 3 after 3? Then the defenders will have to go out and pressure the 3 point area. This then opens up the lane for Steve to penetrate and take it to the hole. With Steve being a smart player he won't force much if there isn't anything there, or he will dish it off to Neb, or to a shooter in the corner if he does get in the lane but is being guarded.

Steve was 2/3 from 3 last game, but his overall percentage from 3 is I believe 24%. There is definately room for improvement and you are correct with him needing to improve that.

Anyone agree with me that Carthage is so tough to game plan for because of their guards being able to shoot from all over, and the improved play of Neb down low?

[mwunder]

Mwunder- You make a great point about Basketball 101 and 5 guys packing down into the lane, but what happens when Bowens or Fendley are making 3 after 3? Then the defenders will have to go out and pressure the 3 point area. This then opens up the lane for Steve to penetrate and take it to the hole. With Steve being a smart player he won't force much if there isn't anything there, or he will dish it off to Neb, or to a shooter in the corner if he does get in the lane but is being guarded.

Steve was 2/3 from 3 last game, but his overall percentage from 3 is I believe 24%. There is definately room for improvement and you are correct with him needing to improve that.

Anyone agree with me that Carthage is so tough to game plan for because of their guards being able to shoot from all over, and the improved play of Neb down low?

I'd take my chances with having any of those guys beat me before I'd let Steve do it.  To be honest...Bowens is the only other guy on the floor for Carthage that would scare me as a coach.

[REDMENFAN]

Mwunder- You make a great point about Basketball 101 and 5 guys packing down into the lane, but what happens when Bowens or Fendley are making 3 after 3? Then the defenders will have to go out and pressure the 3 point area. This then opens up the lane for Steve to penetrate and take it to the hole. With Steve being a smart player he won't force much if there isn't anything there, or he will dish it off to Neb, or to a shooter in the corner if he does get in the lane but is being guarded.

Steve was 2/3 from 3 last game, but his overall percentage from 3 is I believe 24%. There is definately room for improvement and you are correct with him needing to improve that.

Anyone agree with me that Carthage is so tough to game plan for because of their guards being able to shoot from all over, and the improved play of Neb down low?

I'd take my chances with having any of those guys beat me before I'd let Steve do it.  To be honest...Bowens is the only other guy on the floor for Carthage that would scare me as a coach.

I could pretty much guarantee every coach in the league would add Fendley to that list. All these coaches recruited him, and know what he's capable of doing.  Should be a close one tomorrow night.  From what I hear, NC has a great big man. Hopefully the Redmen can get a good showing on a weeknight game for a change!!

[mwunder]

I could pretty much guarantee every coach in the league would add Fendley to that list. All these coaches recruited him, and know what he's capable of doing.  Should be a close one tomorrow night.  From what I hear, NC has a great big man. Hopefully the Redmen can get a good showing on a weeknight game for a change!!

Fendley hasn't proved that he can do it yet.  The other two have.  He's the lesser of the three evils.

[Viking Blue]

Wow.  It took me almost an HOUR to read all of the postings, and I've only been away since late Saturday night!

I also think I counted about 45 different times when people said they wanted to stop talking about the Wheaton situation and start talking "basketball".

Question:  What will NP do tomorrow night to shut down Elmhurst's size?  Will we see another zone?  From what I've read about Elmhurst's "inferior" backcourt, I would have to assume so...

[aceon2]

I could pretty much guarantee every coach in the league would add Fendley to that list. All these coaches recruited him, and know what he's capable of doing.  Should be a close one tomorrow night.  From what I hear, NC has a great big man. Hopefully the Redmen can get a good showing on a weeknight game for a change!!

Fendley hasn't proved that he can do it yet.  The other two have.  He's the lesser of the three evils.

Fendley hasnt proved it yet?  Wow, bold statement considering the kid was third in three point shooting in the CCIW as a freshman at .478. He averaged 7.8 ppg as a freshman in only 17 min.  He has 11 threes in 4 games in conference, 20 threes in his last 5 games...  In my opinion, Fendley is the best pure shooter in the CCIW!  As far as putting it on the floor, thats another story for him, but something that he has slowly improved on from last season.

As far as Steve, I never said the kid wasnt very very good, I just said to be the best player in recent memory he needs to develop a consistent three point shot.

As far as his weight, I was making the point that he gets more calls because of that.  I agree 100% that a freak injury could happen, but in my opinion is no more likely to happen to him than to Raymond or Ruch, etc. 

And as far as it being to early too tell, I agree also, I was just making my opinion based on all we have to see thus far.

[Titan Q]

Significant news in the CCIW...

http://www.cciw.org/news/Playin_Decision.php

CCIW Presidents Defeat Play-in Proposal for Men's Basketball Tournament

NAPERVILLE, Ill. -- The College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin (CCIW) Presidents Council, on Tuesday, defeated a proposal from the men's basketball coaches that would have created a play-in date to determine the four teams who would play in the CCIW men's basketball tournament. The proposal, supported by the conference athletics directors, would have taken effect during the 2008-09 season.

"For a variety of reasons, the presidents agreed that the proposed format would impact the conference in a negative manner and chose to defeat the play-in date proposal," CCIW Commissioner Chris Martin said. "The ultimate authority for the operation of all facets of the conference rests with our chief executive officers and, in this case, the group disagreed with the coaches and athletics directors."

By defeating the proposal, the tournament participants and seeding will continue to be based on the double round robin regular season men's basketball schedule. The top four teams from the regular season standings will earn the right to play in the conference tournament, which will be held at the site of the regular season champion.

The 2008 CCIW Men's Basketball Tournament is scheduled for February 29 and March 1 at the site of the regular season champion. The 2008 tournament will be the third such tournament in the history of the CCIW. North Central won the 2005-06 version while Augustana was last year's champion. The winner of the conference tournament earns the CCIW's automatic bid to the NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament.

[aceon2]

I just did a little more research...

Fendley is (29-53) .547 from three in his last 13 conference games... If anyone, preferably Mwunder,  can show me someone who has made that many at that high a percentage, I will retract my statement that he is the best PURE shooter in the league.

For you to say youd take your chances with him means you would have worse odds than you would at the blackjack table.   

[Titan Q]

The Presidents Council decision is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.  Remember, if the "play-in" proposal passed, it was not going to be called an 8-team tournament - it was going to be a 4-team tournament with a 4-team play-in.  This made no sense to me since the play-in game would not be "exempt" and thus, each school would have to drop one non-conference game to meet the 25 game rule (ie go from 11 non-conference games to 10).

I am in favor of an 8-team tournament that is called an 8-team tournament.  If the league won't support that though, I'd rather have it as-is (a 4-team tournament).

The press release makes it sound like the coaches were pushing the play-in.  I don't think that was the necessarily the case...at least towards the end.  I think last year the coaches pushed for an official 8-team conference tournament, but for some reason the league is not willing to have a different tournament structure for the men and women (and the women don't want an 8-team tourney).  So somehow the play-in concept was developed.  Once the coaches realized, however, that the extra game wouldn't be exempt, they wanted no part of it.  At least that is the impression I've had in talking to coaches - I haven't talked to one yet that was in favor of the play-in.  Most want an official 8-team tournament.

So, my guess is that we are going to have a 4-team tournament for years to come.  I don't see this changing.