MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[OurHouse]

Boo    , it's me again..
hmmmmmmmmmm

[Mr. Ypsi]

Boo    , it's me again..
hmmmmmmmmmm

I'll try to curb my enthusiasm.

[Pat Coleman]

Anybody else think it is rather odd that Carthage is not ranked in the top 25 yet Augustana, Elmhurst, and Wheaton are?

Still, no, because the non-conference schedule counts in the Top 25.

[Mugsy]

Anybody else think it is rather odd that Carthage is not ranked in the top 25 yet Augustana, Elmhurst, and Wheaton are?

Still, no, because the non-conference schedule counts in the Top 25.

Didn't Carthage have some very odd losses early to some teams with very questionable talent?

Consecutive losses to Trinity International (82-64 blowout loss) and East-West (66-63).

I seem to remember someone suggesting a name change to the Enigma's (Mr. Ypsi) after those games.  Losses to the likes of those teams are not going to bolster a teams chances of breaking the top 25 until they show more.

[AndOne]

I am NOT holding this up as fact at all, but speaking of the refs..........

I think it was sometime last year I seem to remember hearing that each CCIW head coach could submit the names of two conference officials that the coach did not want working his team's games. The other part of the equation was that the conference would try to honor the requests, but did not guarantee they would be able to do so.

Has anyone else ever heard of anything like this  --or is my Mad Cow just acting up again?     

[cardinalpride]

Anybody else think it is rather odd that Carthage is not ranked in the top 25 yet Augustana, Elmhurst, and Wheaton are?

Still, no, because the non-conference schedule counts in the Top 25.

Didn't Carthage have some very odd losses early to some teams with very questionable talent?

Consecutive losses to Trinity International (82-64 blowout loss) and East-West (66-63).

I seem to remember someone suggesting a name change to the Enigma's (Mr. Ypsi) after those games.  Losses to the likes of those teams are not going to bolster a teams chances of breaking the top 25 until they show more.

Trinity International and East-West are scholarship eligible and non NCAA div III institutions.  Does play against those schools matter in the eyes of the voters?

[Pat Coleman]

Sure, they count just like any other game. If I were looking closely at Trinity International, for example. I would wonder why D-III schools Bethany Lutheran and Concordia (Wis.) could beat them but Carthage couldn't.

[mwunder]

Probably the last time the leader was 11-6 overall and lost to East-West and Southwestern.

Ultimately, this proves my point about the CCIW being down this year.  There's no way that IWU, or Augie, or the early 2000's Carthage teams lose these games.  13-4 looks a lot better than 11-6, especially when those 4 loses would be to Wheaton (yes, still consider that getting spanked because Carthage only played 29 minutes of that game), Trinity Int'l, Calvin (at Calvin), and Hope (4).  All teams ('cept Trinity), would have been Top 25 teams at the time of the loss, though Calvin is now 9-7.

Don't get me wrong, my question was not, why is Carthage not ranked...because I agree they shouldn't be.  My question was, when is the last time the leader of the CCIW was not ranked.

[aceon2]

Pat, although I agree with you right now that Carthage should not just yet be ranked in the top 25, there are some things that the voters should know about Carthage. 

To be fair, Sean Fendley missed the first eight games with a foot/ankle injury, which includes the losses to Trinity Intl, Calvin, Hope, and East-West.  The two games down in San Antonio including the loss to Southwestern were his first games back and the rust/not quite being in game shape was very evident.

Also important to note is the injury to Neb Franciskovic.  Neb was playing with a sprained ankle the first half of the season.  As evidence, his production was basically nothing.  He could not move or cut on it.  After the Southwestern game, they had a 22 day lay off, in which to get Neb and Fendley fully healthy.  Since then they have gone 6-1, 5-1 in league play. 

Finally, I think its important to look at the way the team has started to take form.  Remember they have a Freshman leading them.  Fendley is just a sophomore.  I think one would have to agree that they are playing as good as just about any team in the country right now.

So would they get my vote for the top 25, maybe I would put them at about 20-23, but I have no real grumbles with them not being in just yet.

[usee]

I think this year's Wheaton team is as good to slightly better than last year's version. Panner and Wiele are clearly better than they were last year and Jahns gives them what they had with Mohan. Raymond is certainly a year better and gets everyone involved. Their biggest achilles heel is a lack of depth which is why its probably closer to a push than anything else. They just don't have the extra 1 or 2 guys off the bench (especially on their frontline) they can go to and get some good minutes of defending and rebounding. They are losing games down the stretch because of a lack of depth in my opinion.

[petemcb]

I think this year's Wheaton team is as good to slightly better than last year's version. Panner and Wiele are clearly better than they were last year and Jahns gives them what they had with Mohan. Raymond is certainly a year better and gets everyone involved. Their biggest achilles heel is a lack of depth which is why its probably closer to a push than anything else. They just don't have the extra 1 or 2 guys off the bench (especially on their frontline) they can go to and get some good minutes of defending and rebounding. They are losing games down the stretch because of a lack of depth in my opinion.

While their bench might not be really deep (I don't really know because Bill Harris doesn't typically go much deeper than eight), I thought Carwell really stepped up in the Elmhurst game and provided another big man option besides Wiele.  He had eight tough points off his inside play against Ruch and occasionally Hintsche (maybe one of the more under-rated defenders in the CCIW).  He was a much stronger rebounding presence than I had seen him be in the non-conference portion of the season.  You could see his confidence growing as the game unfolded.  The guard trio of Raymond, Panner, and Jahns was great, but Wiele and Carwell did significantly better against Elmhurst's bigs than I would have guessed prior to the game.

That was a great game, by the way.  What a season this is turning out to be!

[iwumichigander]

The sky is falling, the conference is down and the Top 25 - Oh my gosh, it was not too many seasons ago that posters on this board expressed amazement that the CCIW had three teams in the Top 25. 

Let's not lose sight that the CCIW started the pre-season with Augustana (Ranked 5) and Elmhurst (Ranked 18) and with two teams in the Others Receiving Votes - Wheaton (71 votes) and  Carthage (67 votes).  Wheaton climbs into the Top 25 in Week 2. And, for six consecutive weeks Augustana, Wheaton and Elmhurst have remained in the Top 25 but the conference is down.

Carthage did not get votes in Week Two due to consecutive losses to Calvin and Hope. The Red Men compounded their situation by extending their loss string to 4 with losses to Trinty Intl and East-West; and, then added consecutive losses to Southwestern and Wheaton (their CCIW opener).  Yet, in Week 8, Carthage did get 7 votes.  Yes, as Aceon2 notes, injuries played a factor but injuries are a part of the game.

It will be interesting to see today the Week 9 Top 25

If you think this conference is down, take a look at the Midwest Region through Jan 29(which includes the UAA on D3Hoops).  The CCIW is doing as well, if not better  than, the Midwest Region as a whole.  Other than not having a conference leader with no losses, the CCIW conference is slightly better than the Region.

If you think this conference is down, take a look at 2006-07; and, you will find three teams with a conference Win % above .600 ; two teams playing .500 % or better and three teams with a Win % below .500 - like this season.

If this conference is down, it may only be because from 2002 -2005 the CCIW had four teams with a conference Win % above .600 %  What this conference does not have - so far - is two teams below .214 as in those past seasons (02-05).  What we have is a bunch of teams battling it out every game with not just a chance but with fairly equal chances to win on any given night. But the conference is down ? I call it parity. I call it what it is - a great, tough conference in which only about 20% of the other Midwestern teams would be able to compete with most CCIW teams.

[aceon2]

I think this year's Wheaton team is as good to slightly better than last year's version. Panner and Wiele are clearly better than they were last year and Jahns gives them what they had with Mohan. Raymond is certainly a year better and gets everyone involved. Their biggest achilles heel is a lack of depth which is why its probably closer to a push than anything else. They just don't have the extra 1 or 2 guys off the bench (especially on their frontline) they can go to and get some good minutes of defending and rebounding. They are losing games down the stretch because of a lack of depth in my opinion.

I would definitely agree that Panner and Wiele are playing much better this year, especially Panner.  And that Jahns has done a good job replacing what Mohan did.  But, wouldnt you agree though that Fiddler and Standard were huge losses for the Thunder?  I thought those guys did the things(rebounds, hustle plays, key p-ut backs) that often times were the difference between winning by 3 and losing by 3.  Each averaged over 4 rebounds a game and over a steal a game.  To me they are the difference between this years team and last years.  

[iwumichigander]

Week 9 - CCIW continues with three (3) teams in the Top 25: Augustana (10) up from #12; Elmhurst (21) down from #13; Wheaton (24) down from #22.

Others Receiving Votes - Carthage (10 votes) up from 7 votes. 

I thought Augustana might drop a little lower but it looks like the Vikings got help from key losses by other Top 25 teams.  I also thought Carthage might get a little more love - but not much more. 

I don't see Carthage moving up more than a few votes even if the Red Men win 2 this week.  A loss would likely see the voters drop them altogether. However, if the Red Men take two this week and two the next week (from Wheaton and Augustana) then Carthage deserves to be in the Top 25

[Pat Coleman]

It will be interesting to see today the Week 9 Top 25

The Top 25 came out Monday night. Carthage remains on my watch list but not in my 25 yet.