MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

Adam Teising was voted all CCIW in '06.  However, I do understand your point.  Also, Mike Roy, Drew Hunter, and Nate Riley come to mind as better players than Ray Vicario.

You're right about Teising, so my apologies to him. Teising was indeed an All-CCIW third-teamer in '06, but his name has not yet been added to the CCIW record book's list of North Central All-CCIW players, which is what I was using as a reference.

I agree with you about Roy, Hunter, and Riley, but I didn't want to name too many Cardinals backcourt aces of yore, because I didn't want to make it sound as though I was putting down Vicario. I really did like him as a player, and I meant what I said about how I would've been happy to see him spend his career as a Viking rather than a Cardinal.

Got to agree with AO on Teising---Have watched the league for many years and he was as close as one could get to being a "true point guard"---He was the engine that made that team very dangerous, made every other player on the floor better and also received the assignment of guarding the other teams best perimeter player night in and night out---Maybe not the stats of some, but a winner in every sense

Well, it looks like I've been outvoted at least 3 to 1 with regard to my post about some of the greatest players at NCC. As all 3 of the posters voicing opposing opinions are more familiar with NCC and CCIW history than I am, and are among the most thoughtful and knowledgeable gentlemen on here, I'm willing to bow to their superior understanding of the subject.

Krum, Teis, & Ray---You guys are still great in my book.

TQ, GS, & CA--Thanks for the history lesson.

So closer to a "true point guard", etc. than Dauksas, John Nielson, Tony Bollier, Wessels #1, Antoine McDaniel.....all of whom did everything you describe above plus numbers?

Pete----

1. My contention concerning Adam Teising, as well as the other two NCC players I commented about, had absolutely nothing to do how they compared to all the other players on all the other teams in the history of the CCIW. If you will go back and re-read my original post, you will see that I stated it was my opinion that Teis was "one of the best players ever at NCC."

As Pete explained, AO, his reply was not to you. It was to Late nite, who redirected your original post and turned it into a matter that dealt with the league in general (which is why I bolded the words "the league" in his post) rather than one that dealt with NCC specifically.

[cardinalfanrochelle]

Greg,
        About Reggie and the mustard I believe it was Munson who said it, good old Reggie another Philly boy.Reggie's Dad was a good tailor from the neighborhood and could talk for hours always had stories about Reggie.

[Gregory Sager]

Greg,
        About Reggie and the mustard I believe it was Munson who said it, good old Reggie another Philly boy.Reggie's Dad was a good tailor from the neighborhood and could talk for hours always had stories about Reggie.

No, it's a commonly-held misperception that Munson said it, but it was actually Darold Knowles.

[cardinalpride]

Then Bill Warden returned to his Alma Mater and the resurgence of Cardinal basketball really began with that date.  The 1984 and 1985 Cardinal teams and the 1990 and 1991 Cardinal teams were especially outstanding.  When player that went unmentioned in the recap by others was forward Curtis Hudson, certainly one of the best leapers the league has ever seen.

Hudson's teammate Tony Jordan was probably the single greatest athlete that I have ever seen in CCIW men's basketball. He made Rob Garnes look like ... well, me. He wasn't exactly the greatest team player in the world, though; NCC athletes from that era have told me that Darold Knowles's old quote about his egocentric A's teammate Reggie Jackson -- "There isn't enough mustard in the world to cover that guy" -- would've applied to Jordan as well.

That 1984-85 North Central team that started Kerry Kelley at center, Nate Harris and Curtis Hudson at the forward spots, Tony Jordan at shooting guard, and Greg Papacosta at point guard is on my list of the best half-dozen CCIW teams of the past three decades. They were every bit the equal of their co-champions at North Park who ended up winning the national championship, and four of those five Cardinals (all but Harris) made the All-CCIW team that season. To this day it astonishes me that they petered out so quickly in the tournament.

One great athlete that I remember is Kent Jones that played for Elmhurst.  A 6'1 post player.  Rumor has it he threw one down on Bulls great Scottie Pippen in a pick up game one summer during one of Michael Jordan's camps.  Can any Elmhurst backers turn that rumor into the truth?

[cardinalfanrochelle]

Greg,
        I must have mixed it up with another quote that Munson said when asked if he was going to try the Reggie bar and then said " No because I'm afraid I'll get mustard all over my hands and pants.

[almcguirejr]

Greg,
        About Reggie and the mustard I believe it was Munson who said it, good old Reggie another Philly boy.Reggie's Dad was a good tailor from the neighborhood and could talk for hours always had stories about Reggie.

No, it's a commonly-held misperception that Munson said it, but it was actually Darold Knowles.

Baseball Almanac agrees with GS.  There are some great quotes about Reggie included with this link.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/quotes/quojackr.shtml

[knarocky22]

New d3hoops.com top 25 poll is out.

7     Augustana
25   Elmhurst

Wheaton received votes.

Previous #1 Wash U. drops all the way to 9.  Amherst is the new #1.

[matblake]

Thanks, Dennis

In your post, you mentioned Nebraska Wesleyan. I graduated from NWU and played basketball there. Hence the picture under my screen name. As I have lived just 5 minutes from NCC in Naperville for several years, the Cards have become my adopted team, especially since 2004 when Todd Raridon came to North Central from Nebraska Wesleyan.

If you had mentioned that before I missed it. I had been wondering about that pic for a while now.

[augiefan]

I'd like to Amherst or any of the top teams out east try to maintain a No. 1 ranking in the CCIW, even this year. My guess is any one of them would end the saeason with at least 4 conference losses. They would face the same fate in the WIAC.

[iwumichigander]

I'd like to Amherst or any of the top teams out east try to maintain a No. 1 ranking in the CCIW, even this year. My guess is any one of them would end the saeason with at least 4 conference losses. They would face the same fate in the WIAC.

With respect to the Lord Jeffs, you are wrong.  Unless you have a different Amherst College (which Noah Webster helped to form in 1821 ) in the mind than the one that - finished 2006-07 as the National Champion by knocking off Va. Wesleyan (the prior season National Champion trying to repeat), that finished 2005-06 with a 4th in the National Tournament with losses to Wittenburg and IWU, that went dancing in 1994, 1997, 2000-2007; that has an NCAA tourney record any CCIW team would want to have over the past 14 years; and, since 2005 an overall W/L record of 102 - 10  (.911) with 2 of those losses in the Final Four.

Williams, also in the NESCAC, could contend in the CCIW for first most years, albeit the rest of the NESCAC likely would struggle to compete in the CCIW. 

[fcnews]

pabegg posted his latest projected regional rankings on the Pool C board...

http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=4232.1185

He uses an RPI-style system similar to what the new OWP/OOWP is supposed to be like.  Right now, his Midwest region looks like this:

----------


Reg Conf Rank Prior School                    Natl Status      Reg Overall

MW  74   01   02   Lawrence                  011  A w C       12-2 14-2
MW  90   02   01   Washington U.             015  C 3         11-3 14-4
MW  71   03   03   Augustana                 019  A w C       14-4 15-4
MW  90   04   06   Chicago                   058  C third     11-6 12-6
MW  71   05   04   Wheaton (Ill.)            061  C third     11-5 14-5
MW  71   06   08   Illinois Wesleyan         064  C third     10-6 11-8
MW  71   07   07   Elmhurst                  071              13-5 14-5
MW  74   08   13   Carroll                   082              10-5 11-5
MW  73   09   10   Aurora                    084  B 5         14-4 16-4
MW  76   10   14   Webster                   090              115 13-5
MW  72   11   09   Defiance                  092  A other     126 14-6

Reg        Region
Conf       Conference number
Rank      Regional ranking
Prior       Prior regional ranking
School
Natl     National ranking based on regional results
Status
    B + number: Pool B ranking (top 4 in tournament)
    C + number: Pool C ranking of 17 teams in tournament
    C second: second tier Pool C (spots 18-27)
    C third: third tier Pool C (spots 28-37)
    A w C: Pool A, in likely Pool C range
    A second: Pool A, in second tier Pool C
    A third: Pool A, in third tier Pool C
    blank: lower level Pool C

One week out from the real rankings. Again, I've ranked three more teams per region than will be in the actual rankings, just to indicate the teams that are close.
----------
He has two CCIW teams in the Pool C mix right now -- not in the top 17 of Pool C candidates (that is the # of at-large bids), but at least in the ballpark. 

I'm not sure if the NCAA's new ranking process will really follow pabegg's, but this is pretty interesting.  I think the first real regional rankings come out next week.

Q, based on the above, what would a Fontbonne win tomorrow night against Webster, do for us. I know about our strength of schedule. Just wanted your opinion.

[Mr. Ypsi]

iwumich,

IF augiefan was talking about Amherst (or others) maintaining #1 in the country while playing in the CCIW (which is how I interpreted his post), I'll have to respectfully disagree with you and side with him.  Look back just two years.  The 2005-06 Titans were (on paper, at least) one of the most talented d3 teams ever (2 1st-team AAs, with another the next year) and ranked unanimously #1 in the country entering the conference season - that lasted ONE game (and they eventually lost 5)!  Granted the top of the CCIW was amazingly strong that year. 

This year Amherst has two non-con losses (to a solid but unspectacular NAIA team and to 4-loss Brandeis).  If they were in THIS year's CCIW, they would quite possibly win the league, but I seriously doubt they would be undefeated - and with a third (or 4th? 5th?) loss they would certainly not be #1 in the country.

[iwumichigander]

iwumich,

IF augiefan was talking about Amherst (or others) maintaining #1 in the country while playing in the CCIW (which is how I interpreted his post), I'll have to respectfully disagree with you and side with him.  Look back just two years.  The 2005-06 Titans were (on paper, at least) one of the most talented d3 teams ever (2 1st-team AAs, with another the next year) and ranked unanimously #1 in the country entering the conference season - that lasted ONE game (and they eventually lost 5)!  Granted the top of the CCIW was amazingly strong that year. 

This year Amherst has two non-con losses (to a solid but unspectacular NAIA team and to 4-loss Brandeis).  If they were in THIS year's CCIW, they would quite possibly win the league, but I seriously doubt they would be undefeated - and with a third (or 4th? 5th?) loss they would certainly not be #1 in the country.

I read it in context as conference ("maintain a No. 1 ranking in the CCIW") , not the D3Hoops Top 25, when I responded.  Augie (in conference) or Amherst (Top 25) has not really maintained a No. 1 either.  Therefore, my approach was if I take Amherst with its 2007-08 current record, change their conference to CCIW (with a 6-0) would Amherst be #1? Yes, as much opportunity as Augie would likely be #1 in Weeks 1, 2 & 10 with Amherst's 18-2; 6-0 record.  Of course, Augie does not have the distinction of prior season National Champion 

... Look back just two years.  The 2005-06 Titans were (on paper, at least) one of the most talented d3 teams ever (2 1st-team AAs, with another the next year) and ranked unanimously #1 in the country entering the conference season - that lasted ONE game (and they eventually lost 5)!  Granted the top of the CCIW was amazingly strong that year. 

I did, just to verify what I knew, that in 2005-06 Amherst was in every Top 25 poll that season and considered by some as talented (well, more talented if you believed the Top 25 in weeks 7,8,11,12 & 13 - on paper, of course) without dropping off the radar in one week like some team we know.

[Pat Coleman]

I don't think you guys would fare too well with the trips to Western Massachusetts.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I don't think you guys would fare too well with the trips to Western Massachusetts.

Didn't say (or think) that we would!  Just that I doubt Amherst would have an undefeated conference record after trips to Rock Island, Kenosha, Wheaton, Bloomington, etc.

Of course, they might not have an undefeated record in the NESCAC, either, if they would do a double round-robin!