MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[iwumichigander]

I don't think you guys would fare too well with the trips to Western Massachusetts.

I would!  I lived in New England for 7 years.  I'm not so sure the CCIW teams would fare too well - some would but others would not.  Mr Ypsi, on the other hand, could likely find Williams but when he got to Amherst would he go to the Academy, College or University ?

[fcnews]

Stupid question? From a SLIAC fan. Why does Fontbonne's win @ Caltech count as in-region, but RHIT does not? Any help from more imformed?

[Mr. Ypsi]

I don't think you guys would fare too well with the trips to Western Massachusetts.

I would!  I lived in New England for 7 years.  I'm not so sure the CCIW teams would fare too well - some would but others would not.  Mr Ypsi, on the other hand, could likely find Williams but when he got to Amherst would he go to the Academy, College or University ?

I've spent a lot of time in Maine, but only travelled thru Mass.  Odds are (unless the signs are a whole lot better than elsewhere in NE), I'd end up at UMass and hope that someone had ever heard of Amherst College!

+1 for the riposte!

[Mr. Ypsi]

Stupid question? From a SLIAC fan. Why does Fontbonne's win @ Caltech count as in-region, but RHIT does not? Any help from more imformed?

A year or two ago the NCAA added "administrative regions" to the definition of "in region".  Illinois (or Missouri) teams can now go even to Hawaii or Alaska and be in-region (though much of Michigan or Indiana is off-limits).

[fcnews]

Thanks Ypsi - Kind of odd.

[Lefty]

I have a question....I am going to be in Waukegan, IL next week and I am going to try to get to the Elmhurst @ Carthage game in Kenosha on Wednesday.  Every time I go to a new city/town I like to try the local food and since I am in Wisconsin I am thinking a good brat is in my future.  Can anyone from the area, or someone that knows the area, please let me know where I can get a good brat on my way to Kenosha or in Kenosha??  Or is there something else the area is known for?

Thanks!

[Pat Coleman]

Thanks Ypsi - Kind of odd.

http://www.d3hoops.com/faq.php?question=44

Both are regional games.

[fcnews]

Thanks Pat - I didn't think there was a in region indicator on the d3hoops FU schedule. I quess I missed it.

[sac]

Forget if or who would survive a CCIW schedule from the NESCAC, I just want to see who from the NESCAC would survive a double-round robin conference schedule instead of that mamby pamby onesies thing they throw out there every year.  I bet some of those records wouldn't look so gawdy if they played everyone twice like every other conference in D3.

[iwumichigander]

Forget if or who would survive a CCIW schedule from the NESCAC, I just want to see who from the NESCAC would survive a double-round robin conference schedule instead of that mamby pamby onesies thing they throw out there every year.  I bet some of those records wouldn't look so gawdy if they played everyone twice like every other conference in D3.

No contest.  NESCAC tournament began in 2001 - the only winners -  Amherst (2001,02,05,& 06) and Williams (03,04 & 07).  You're likely correct those records wouldn't look so gawdy in a double round-robin.  They would look more gawdy; but, no more so than, as posters have argued in the past as Wooster or Wittenberg (NCHC); Hope or Calvin (MIAA); or Baldwin-Wallace or Ohio Northern (OAC)

[Gregory Sager]

I don't think you guys would fare too well with the trips to Western Massachusetts.

Didn't say (or think) that we would!  Just that I doubt Amherst would have an undefeated conference record after trips to Rock Island, Kenosha, Wheaton, Bloomington, etc.

Of course, they might not have an undefeated record in the NESCAC, either, if they would do a double round-robin!

Exactly. Thank you for saying that, Chuck. My respect for the NESCAC and its teams is considerable, but the fact that the NESCAC only plays a single round-robin is a serious black mark against it in terms of how highly I view that league. And as Sac indicates, I'm not the only national D3 observer who feels that way.

Forget if or who would survive a CCIW schedule from the NESCAC, I just want to see who from the NESCAC would survive a double-round robin conference schedule instead of that mamby pamby onesies thing they throw out there every year.  I bet some of those records wouldn't look so gawdy if they played everyone twice like every other conference in D3.

No contest.  NESCAC tournament began in 2001 - the only winners -  Amherst (2001,02,05,& 06) and Williams (03,04 & 07).  You're likely correct those records wouldn't look so gawdy in a double round-robin.  They would look more gawdy; but, no more so than, as posters have argued in the past as Wooster or Wittenberg (NCHC); Hope or Calvin (MIAA); or Baldwin-Wallace or Ohio Northern (OAC)

Gotta disagree with you there, IWUM. A while back I posted the non-conference cumulative records of various D3 power conferences over the past decade, including the NESCAC's. The NESCAC does as well or better than does the CCIW most years; in fact, it's usually right up there with the WIAC, which has always tended to be the standard-bearer in lopsidedly positive non-conference records.

This season is no different; the NESCAC has to date rung up a 113-34 (.769) non-conference record, well above the CCIW or the WIAC. Only the UAA is doing better in non-conference play than is the NESCAC. The reason is twofold: The NESCAC historically has a number of very strong programs, and the region in which it plays (Northeast) has tended to be comparatively weak outside of the NESCAC fold. You can't say the same thing about the three Great Lakes Region leagues to which you're comparing the NESCAC, the MIAA (Hope and Calvin), NCAC (Wooster and Wittenberg), and the OAC (Ohio Northern and Bald Wally). None of those three leagues is anywhere near being as far above the level of the local regional competition as the NESCAC is above it's local regional competition, so the NESCAC by comparison benefits greatly from being able to play all of those extra non-conference games.

The imbalance for the MIAA and NCAC is interior, not exterior. Woo and Witt run away and hide from the rest of their league every year, in large part because there's all kinds of dross in the league's bottom half and the rest of the top half besides the Scots and Tigers is usually about D3 average. Hope and Calvin aren't as dominant in their circuit as are Woo and Witt in theirs, but that's because Albion is a formidable third party in the annual MIAA sweepstakes (this year included). I have no idea why you threw the OAC in there as well, because perhaps no D3 league is more notorious for historical parity than is the OAC.

To sum up: The records of the NESCAC teams (including the three usually at the top: Amherst, Trinity CT, and Williams) would indeed look less gaudy if the league played a double round-robin, because the interior competition is generally stiffer within the NESCAC than is their exterior competition against local Northeast Region rivals.

[iwumichigander]

A question bothering me all week for which I have not made up my mind as to the answer and would like some feedback - Is this seperation week in the CCIW?

[Gregory Sager]

Thanks Pat - I didn't think there was a in region indicator on the d3hoops FU schedule. I quess I missed it.

Terre Haute and St. Louis are only separated by 168 miles, so Rose-Hulman vs. Fontbonne is therefore a regional game according to the 200-mile rule.

[iwumichigander]

I've spent a lot of time in Maine, but only travelled thru Mass.  Odds are (unless the signs are a whole lot better than elsewhere in NE), I'd end up at UMass and hope that someone had ever heard of Amherst College!

What signs?  They've lived in NE for over 365 years with the signs they have - none. Everyone living in NE knows if someone does not know where they are going they either don't belong there or are from New York!

Ending up at UMass-Amherst (or The UMass Flagship as now marketing it) and asking where is Amherst College.  You would likely get the same answer as someone on the ISU campus when asked - Q - How do I get to Illinois Wesleyan?  A - Dunno, it's somewhere that way! (Of course if you did ask the "Q" -  he could probably tell you if he had his GPS with him )

[coebball70]

Lefty....in response to a brat place in Kenosha, I have one idea.  Try the Boathouse located about two miles south of the Carthage campus and right on the Kenosha Marina and Lake Michigan.  It's a decent restaurant with a varied menu and less hard-core 'cheesehead' bar atmosphere.  Plus, at least in the summer, the brats are fantastic!
Enjoy watching Steve D., he's very entertaining.  Considering this game will be 'must win' for both teams, it should be a great night of basketball.

I have a question....I am going to be in Waukegan, IL next week and I am going to try to get to the Elmhurst @ Carthage game in Kenosha on Wednesday.  Every time I go to a new city/town I like to try the local food and since I am in Wisconsin I am thinking a good brat is in my future.  Can anyone from the area, or someone that knows the area, please let me know where I can get a good brat on my way to Kenosha or in Kenosha??  Or is there something else the area is known for?

Thanks!