MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[petemcb]

On the other hand, I think this game showed, once again, the ultimate problems that NP (and Carthage for that matter) have:  NO INSIDE PRESENCE.  NP shot 54% from behind the arc.  How often is that going to happen?  Not very often, according to their final conference record.

There's no doubt about it that you hit the nail on the head: Both North Park and Carthage need a bona-fide CCIW-starter-quality big man. How Carthage gets one, and who it might be, is Carthage's business. I'll stick to worrying about the Vikings. I think that NPU might have a good one in development in freshman Phil Schniedermeier, who was better than any CCIW center I saw him face in JV play this season. Of course, being the best player at your position on the junior varsity level is like being the best tap-dancer in your accounting class. It doesn't mean much. I think that he could be ready to take on the load in the middle next season for the NPU varsity, but he's strictly an unproven commodity -- and unproven commodities make for sleepless nights for coaches.

NPU really needs another CCIW-starter-quality center who will either push Schniedermeier into getting better through internal competition or who will immediately move ahead of him on the depth chart. Problem is, finding someone like that is easier said than done. It's been my observation that finding a good, ready-made CCIW big man has gotten more and more difficult in recent years, and not just for North Park and Carthage.

Greg, when I was at NPU/Carthage JV game Wednesday night, I was impressed with NPU's other big man.  Don't know his name.  Forget his number.  Big guy with dark curly hair.  He was pretty active defensively, both inside and out on the perimeter.  He had several strong takes to the basket AND finished them.  He rebounded decently, and had good size and strength.  Who is he, what year is he, and why wasn't he getting any meaningful time on the varsity?  He looked like he could have helped the cause.

[petemcb]

Augustana 83
IWU 68

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2008/02/21/usports/doc47bd1d5a6bb4a594480680.txt

http://www.wjbc.com/wire2/podsports/00847_IWURonRose221WEB_002038.htm

http://www.augustana.edu/athletics/mbasketball/stats/2007-08/08mbb24.htm


For the first time since the game at Elmhurst way back on January 19, the Titans seemed to be caught on their heels last night in Rock Island.  In IWU's 7-1 run since that loss at Elmhurst, the Titans have done a great job of coming out as the aggressor, and that just wasn't the case last night.  Augustana had all of the energy from the opening tip.

There is no question that Augie is not a good matchup for the Titans due to their size and athleticism down low and how well they defend the perimeter.  Elmhurst is huge, but the Bluejays don't guard the perimeter like the Vikings do...and while Wheaton has 6-8 Andy Wiele, the Thunder don't have much else in the way of big guys who make an impact on both ends of the floor.  Against Augustana, IWU - with 6-4 Darius Gant and 6-5 Brett Chamernik - really does not have a consistent inside game.  Then on defense, they really struggle to contain Swetalla, Collins, and Bertrand.  All of that said, IWU still had a chance to beat Augie at the Shirk Center (up 5 with the ball with 2:57 to play), so last night's performance was disappointing.

IWU's 2nd half defense was poor last night.  Here is a list of points given up by IWU in the 2nd half since the Jan. 19 game @ Elmhurst:

vs Wheaton 32
@ North Park 30
vs Augustana 36
vs Carthage 34
@ North Central 36
vs Elmhurst 41
vs Millkin 31
@ Wheaton 36
@ Augustana 49

Certainly Augie's offensive gameplan and execution vs IWU was very good, but the Titan D was just not what it was been for a month now.

Now, I guess the big picture is that back in December there is no way I could have envisioned being disappointed the Titans lost at Augustana. The Titans have clinched the #2 seed in the CCIW tournament and quite honestly, I wasn't sure this team could finish 6-8 coming into the year.  They have played very well the last month of the season and I'm confident they will regroup and make a run at the CCIW's automatic bid.

IWU's freshman point-guard was good last night - Travis Rosenkranz had 11 points with 7 rebounds and 7 assists (and just 2 turnovers against defense designed to take the ball from him).  IWU's other starting rookie guard, Sean Johnson, has broken IWU's freshman 3-point record.  Johnson has now made 53 3's (Korey Coon 49 in 1996-97, Adam Dauksas 45 in 2002-03).  The Titans needs these two to really play well Saturday and then in the conference tournament.

I cannot believe you posted the statements above....you are way off on your assessments
jmho~

OurHouse, which of Q's assessments are way off?

1) Titans caught on their heels
2) Augie had all the energy from the opening tip
3) Augie's superior size down low
4) Augie's strong defense of the perimeter
5) IWU's inconsistent inside game
6) Up 5 with the ball with 2:57 to play at the Shirk
7) IWU's points given up in the second half of games this season
8  Augie's game plan and execution was good
9) His surprise at IWU clinching the #2 seed in the tournament
10)His statement that IWU has played very well in the last month
11)The guard stats from the game and the IWU guard historical statistical comparisons
12)The need for the young IWU guards to continue playing well for tournament success

It seemed to me like every point was either factual or commonly-held on this board.  The post seemed more complimentary of Augie's performance and preparation than his own team's.  What part of his "assessment" do you find stunning?  I'm missing it.

[mr_b]

Greg, when I was at NPU/Carthage JV game Wednesday night, I was impressed with NPU's other big man.  Don't know his name.  Forget his number.  Big guy with dark curly hair.  He was pretty active defensively, both inside and out on the perimeter.  He had several strong takes to the basket AND finished them.  He rebounded decently, and had good size and strength.  Who is he, what year is he, and why wasn't he getting any meaningful time on the varsity?  He looked like he could have helped the cause.

Was it Jon Chimino, perhaps?  I saw only part of the second half of the JV contest, and I know he was in the game.

[Elmhurst_Mom]

I cannot believe you posted the statements above....you are way off on your assessments
jmho~

OurHouse, there are several posters - most here actually - whose opinion I respect and who I read very carefully when they disagree with me. 

You are not one of those posters.

Nothing but integrity!...that's precisely why you're one of my favorites Q and why so many learn so much from you and this site...thank you.

[petemcb]

Augustana 83
IWU 68

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2008/02/21/usports/doc47bd1d5a6bb4a594480680.txt

http://www.wjbc.com/wire2/podsports/00847_IWURonRose221WEB_002038.htm

http://www.augustana.edu/athletics/mbasketball/stats/2007-08/08mbb24.htm


For the first time since the game at Elmhurst way back on January 19, the Titans seemed to be caught on their heels last night in Rock Island.  In IWU's 7-1 run since that loss at Elmhurst, the Titans have done a great job of coming out as the aggressor, and that just wasn't the case last night.  Augustana had all of the energy from the opening tip.

There is no question that Augie is not a good matchup for the Titans due to their size and athleticism down low and how well they defend the perimeter.  Elmhurst is huge, but the Bluejays don't guard the perimeter like the Vikings do...and while Wheaton has 6-8 Andy Wiele, the Thunder don't have much else in the way of big guys who make an impact on both ends of the floor.  Against Augustana, IWU - with 6-4 Darius Gant and 6-5 Brett Chamernik - really does not have a consistent inside game.  Then on defense, they really struggle to contain Swetalla, Collins, and Bertrand.  All of that said, IWU still had a chance to beat Augie at the Shirk Center (up 5 with the ball with 2:57 to play), so last night's performance was disappointing.

IWU's 2nd half defense was poor last night.  Here is a list of points given up by IWU in the 2nd half since the Jan. 19 game @ Elmhurst:

vs Wheaton 32
@ North Park 30
vs Augustana 36
vs Carthage 34
@ North Central 36
vs Elmhurst 41
vs Millkin 31
@ Wheaton 36
@ Augustana 49

Certainly Augie's offensive gameplan and execution vs IWU was very good, but the Titan D was just not what it was been for a month now.

Now, I guess the big picture is that back in December there is no way I could have envisioned being disappointed the Titans lost at Augustana. The Titans have clinched the #2 seed in the CCIW tournament and quite honestly, I wasn't sure this team could finish 6-8 coming into the year.  They have played very well the last month of the season and I'm confident they will regroup and make a run at the CCIW's automatic bid.

IWU's freshman point-guard was good last night - Travis Rosenkranz had 11 points with 7 rebounds and 7 assists (and just 2 turnovers against defense designed to take the ball from him).  IWU's other starting rookie guard, Sean Johnson, has broken IWU's freshman 3-point record.  Johnson has now made 53 3's (Korey Coon 49 in 1996-97, Adam Dauksas 45 in 2002-03).  The Titans needs these two to really play well Saturday and then in the conference tournament.

I cannot believe you posted the statements above....you are way off on your assessments
jmho~

One more thing: you might want to consider removing the "h" from your "jmho".

jmho

[petemcb]

Greg, when I was at NPU/Carthage JV game Wednesday night, I was impressed with NPU's other big man.  Don't know his name.  Forget his number.  Big guy with dark curly hair.  He was pretty active defensively, both inside and out on the perimeter.  He had several strong takes to the basket AND finished them.  He rebounded decently, and had good size and strength.  Who is he, what year is he, and why wasn't he getting any meaningful time on the varsity?  He looked like he could have helped the cause.

Was it Jon Chimino, perhaps?  I saw only part of the second half of the JV contest, and I know he was in the game.

If that's him, then I would expect that he would be a useful part of the varsity mix next year.  He had a well-rounded, nice game.  I would think he could help the varsity right now.  Does he play with them much?

[mr_b]

Greg, when I was at NPU/Carthage JV game Wednesday night, I was impressed with NPU's other big man.  Don't know his name.  Forget his number.  Big guy with dark curly hair.  He was pretty active defensively, both inside and out on the perimeter.  He had several strong takes to the basket AND finished them.  He rebounded decently, and had good size and strength.  Who is he, what year is he, and why wasn't he getting any meaningful time on the varsity?  He looked like he could have helped the cause.

Was it Jon Chimino, perhaps?  I saw only part of the second half of the JV contest, and I know he was in the game.

If that's him, then I would expect that he would be a useful part of the varsity mix next year.  He had a well-rounded, nice game.  I would think he could help the varsity right now.  Does he play with them much?

## Player              GP-GS  Min--Avg  FG-FGA   Pct 3FG-FGA   Pct  FT-FTA   Pct  Off Def  Tot  Avg  PF FO   A  TO Blk Stl  Pts  Avg
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
32 Chimino, Jon....... 17-0   140  8.2  14-45   .311   5-22   .227   7-15   .467    8  18   26  1.5  18  0   5   6   2   3   40  2.4

As the stat line shows, he has appeared in 17 games through Wednesday's contest.  I expect we'll see more of him next season.

[Naperick]

Greg: Regarding your inquiry, "What kind of question is that?"

How about analytical & historical. It was a harmless question I thought.

It didn't strike me that way at all. The question struck me as ambiguous, nebulous, and potentially loaded. I'd like Naperick to clarify his intent. Is he implying some sort of structural defect within the current programs at Carthage, Millikin, and NPU? Is he commenting upon those three teams as currently constituted? Or is he asking us to speculate as to whether or not the personnel is in place for any of those three teams to finish in the first division next year, in spite of the fact that we have no idea what CCIW rosters will look like in February 2009?

I'm not calling out Naperick. I'd just like him to elaborate further on what it is that he's asking.

I did not mean to create a "problem" with my post regarding the history of the CCIW tourney.  I was just curious if anybody had any information on what kind of teams Carthage, North Park, and Millikin might have next season.  I know it's impossible to know what every teams lineup will be next season.  Players transfer, drop out, quit basketball, get hurt, etc. and a good recruiting class can really move a team up fast.  IWU is a great example of how much a team can improve in just one season.

Once again, I'm sorry for the post and I'm not trying to hurt anybody.  I regret the post.

[Naperick]

The All-CCIW squads posted here demonstrate the league lacks a sufficient number of skilled players at the 4+5 positions.

Very true!  The teams that have them seem to have a huge advantage this season.

[mr_b]

I was just curious if anybody had any information on what kind of teams Carthage, North Park, and Millikin might have next season.  I know it's impossible to know what every teams lineup will be next season.  Players transfer, drop out, quit basketball, get hurt, etc. and a good recruiting class can really move a team up fast.  IWU is a great example of how much a team can improve in just one season.

It's a case of "who can know the answer at this point?"  We're not even at the end of the CCIW season.  I'm sure each coaching staff has its sights set on recruits, but that's way off... until the recruits enroll and attend class, it's no sure thing.  Players transfer, sometimes at the last minute.  Players quit, even mid-season and for a plethora of reasons.  And the list goes on and on. 

[devildog29]

The All-CCIW squads posted here demonstrate the league lacks a sufficient number of skilled players at the 4+5 positions.

Very true!  The teams that have them seem to have a huge advantage this season.

I think this topic was discussed a while back, but more in reference to D3 as a whole lacking strong bigs.  The point was made, which I tend to agee wth, that often kids with any size tend to get a lot more offers from the D2's and lower D1's just because of the size, and presumably potential, they have.  As they say, you can't coach size, so it tends to be in short supply at the D3 level.  There are plenty of kids 6' to 6'5" who can get overlooked by scholarship schools, who go on to excel in D3.  Unfortunately, not so much at the 5 spot.

[aceon2]

Don't all coaches complain every trip up and down the floor??  Bosko gets singled out because it's his son?  You're telling me that Raridon doesn't complain when his son doesn't get calls?  Perhaps it's because the ball is in Steve D's hand's so often that your perception is thrown off?

No.  I don't believe they do.  I am not a homer, and I believe several will back me up on this.  Paul Brenegan tends to be about as cool a cat as they come.  If he's voicing his disagreement, you know it's legit.

Please note, I also said I was extremely impressed with the kid.

I've only seen Bosko at work in the game at NPU this season, as opposed to most seasons in which I get to see Carthage three or four times. I didn't notice anything different about the way that he was working last night. Yes, he spent quite a bit of time verbally massaging the refs ... but he's always done that. He knows just how much he can work each one of them before they lose patience with him -- the roster of CCIW officials is not a big one -- and, as Viking Blue mentioned, it pays dividends for him. I can name two different occasions in which Bosko's pleas for a specific call were met almost immediately with a whistle against NPU calling the exact same foul that Bosko wanted to have called.

I don't have a gripe with that. Well, I did last night because I'm an NPU partisan, but as a basketball observer I applaud his tactics. It's good coaching (if you're skilled enough at it and have a good rapport with the specific officials who're working the game), because it gives your team an edge. As for the charge that Bosko's doing it more now than in previous seasons because his son's on the team, I disagree. As I said, he's doing about as much ref-massaging as he's usually done ... and, as mwunder said, since the Carthage player who has the ball in his hands most of the game is Steve Djurickovic, it only stands to reason that the player on whose behalf Bosko most often takes the role of sideline lawyer is his own son.

That would be me--- I think that it is quite ironic that those who were praising Bosko and the Redmen at that time, have very little to say about the collossal collapse in the second half---I posted at the time that the Redmen had caught much of the league by surprise in the first half and the second time through the league there would be adjustments made ---Some adjustments by other teams and some by Coach Bosko---His CCIW counterparts found some answers and made those adjustments to find some success against the surprising Redmen---Bosko's adjustments?---"We need to get better players"

I made the same observation in the crackerbox last night after NPU polished off the Red Men; Carthage surprised everyone in the first round-robin, but the league made adjustments to the Red Men and handled them the second time around. Sorry to disappoint you, Late nite, but I don't think that that's an indictment of Bosko's coaching. I think that he made the most out of what he had this season -- and, remember, he didn't have Sean Fendley in November and December -- and for six games or so in the first round-robin he got away with it. Carthage was never going to be any better than a .500 CCIW team even if Bosko squeezed every last ounce of talent and effort out of it that he could. It has no size whatsoever, nobody who is effective with his back to the basket, and (since Trey Bowens seems to have forgotten how to penetrate) only one player who can and will beat his opponent off the dribble. Carthage looks more like a summer instructional camp for shooters than it does a bona-fide team with all the traditional roles filled.

I don't think that his strategy and tactics have been at fault, even in the second round-robin tailspin. I think that his shortfalls rest more in what aceon and Bob and I were talking about the other day, which is the inability of the Carthage coaching staff to get the right ballplayers on campus in the first place. That's what put Carthage in the predicament of having to work around such glaring holes in the 2007-08 roster.

Sorry to disagree GS---Accountablility is expected from his players---Why not the same from the Head Coach?---Why throw your current players under the bus in the middle of the season with a comment like that?---They're your players---You brought them in---Most coaches can win with great players---How about "coaching up" the group that you have instead of passing most of the blame to them in the middle of a bad run?---The CCIW certainly wasn't the SEC this season---The Redmen were outplayed and out-coached in the 2nd half of the conference season

Couldnt have said it better myself. 

[Dennis_Prikkel]

Don't all coaches complain every trip up and down the floor??  Bosko gets singled out because it's his son?  You're telling me that Raridon doesn't complain when his son doesn't get calls?  Perhaps it's because the ball is in Steve D's hand's so often that your perception is thrown off?

No.  I don't believe they do.  I am not a homer, and I believe several will back me up on this.  Paul Brenegan tends to be about as cool a cat as they come.  If he's voicing his disagreement, you know it's legit.

Please note, I also said I was extremely impressed with the kid.

I've only seen Bosko at work in the game at NPU this season, as opposed to most seasons in which I get to see Carthage three or four times. I didn't notice anything different about the way that he was working last night. Yes, he spent quite a bit of time verbally massaging the refs ... but he's always done that. He knows just how much he can work each one of them before they lose patience with him -- the roster of CCIW officials is not a big one -- and, as Viking Blue mentioned, it pays dividends for him. I can name two different occasions in which Bosko's pleas for a specific call were met almost immediately with a whistle against NPU calling the exact same foul that Bosko wanted to have called.

I don't have a gripe with that. Well, I did last night because I'm an NPU partisan, but as a basketball observer I applaud his tactics. It's good coaching (if you're skilled enough at it and have a good rapport with the specific officials who're working the game), because it gives your team an edge. As for the charge that Bosko's doing it more now than in previous seasons because his son's on the team, I disagree. As I said, he's doing about as much ref-massaging as he's usually done ... and, as mwunder said, since the Carthage player who has the ball in his hands most of the game is Steve Djurickovic, it only stands to reason that the player on whose behalf Bosko most often takes the role of sideline lawyer is his own son.

That would be me--- I think that it is quite ironic that those who were praising Bosko and the Redmen at that time, have very little to say about the collossal collapse in the second half---I posted at the time that the Redmen had caught much of the league by surprise in the first half and the second time through the league there would be adjustments made ---Some adjustments by other teams and some by Coach Bosko---His CCIW counterparts found some answers and made those adjustments to find some success against the surprising Redmen---Bosko's adjustments?---"We need to get better players"

I made the same observation in the crackerbox last night after NPU polished off the Red Men; Carthage surprised everyone in the first round-robin, but the league made adjustments to the Red Men and handled them the second time around. Sorry to disappoint you, Late nite, but I don't think that that's an indictment of Bosko's coaching. I think that he made the most out of what he had this season -- and, remember, he didn't have Sean Fendley in November and December -- and for six games or so in the first round-robin he got away with it. Carthage was never going to be any better than a .500 CCIW team even if Bosko squeezed every last ounce of talent and effort out of it that he could. It has no size whatsoever, nobody who is effective with his back to the basket, and (since Trey Bowens seems to have forgotten how to penetrate) only one player who can and will beat his opponent off the dribble. Carthage looks more like a summer instructional camp for shooters than it does a bona-fide team with all the traditional roles filled.

I don't think that his strategy and tactics have been at fault, even in the second round-robin tailspin. I think that his shortfalls rest more in what aceon and Bob and I were talking about the other day, which is the inability of the Carthage coaching staff to get the right ballplayers on campus in the first place. That's what put Carthage in the predicament of having to work around such glaring holes in the 2007-08 roster.

Sorry to disagree GS---Accountablility is expected from his players---Why not the same from the Head Coach?---Why throw your current players under the bus in the middle of the season with a comment like that?---They're your players---You brought them in---Most coaches can win with great players---How about "coaching up" the group that you have instead of passing most of the blame to them in the middle of a bad run?---The CCIW certainly wasn't the SEC this season---The Redmen were outplayed and out-coached in the 2nd half of the conference season

Couldnt have said it better myself. 

Does this qualify as a run-on blog... 

[sac]

The All-CCIW squads posted here demonstrate the league lacks a sufficient number of skilled players at the 4+5 positions.

Very true!  The teams that have them seem to have a huge advantage this season.

I think this topic was discussed a while back, but more in reference to D3 as a whole lacking strong bigs.  The point was made, which I tend to agee wth, that often kids with any size tend to get a lot more offers from the D2's and lower D1's just because of the size, and presumably potential, they have.  As they say, you can't coach size, so it tends to be in short supply at the D3 level.  There are plenty of kids 6' to 6'5" who can get overlooked by scholarship schools, who go on to excel in D3.  Unfortunately, not so much at the 5 spot.

Hope recruited a kid last year who  was 6-10 and was considered a project and would likely have spent a year on Hope's JV.   He's riding the pine at his D2 school with a full ride scholarship.

[iwumichigander]

Does this qualify as a run-on blog... 

Yes, it certainly did.  This does not!