MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[tjcummingsfan]

Because the conversation has floated around arenas, and student sections, this season, I have to give my observations of the crowd at the Shirk last night. 

It was impressive to see how many people were there, man would I love to have that many people at North Park games.  If Park gets hot next year, I'd expect to see those bleachers on the stage pulled down for more games than the Wheaton game. 

It was unimpressive how little noise this multitude of people made, North Park's student section is louder, and much more organized.  At one point the Band and the group of about 8 guys in camo shirts were leading the same cheer at offset times, kind of amateur.   

It sure would be nice to have a pep band. 

[AndOne]

[b]"Historic three-peat"[/b]

Alex Washington had 17 points, Brett Wessels 15, and Dain Swetalla 11 as Augustana not only clinched the CCIW title outright, but also accomplished something that hadn't been done in the conference for 28 years!! The Vikings epitomize "Team" play as Augie had seven different high scorers in 25 games and six different leading rebounders.  Here is the article from The Dispatch:

               http://qconline.com/archives/qco/display.php?id=375922

This is a gloat-free zone...
This is a gloat-free zone...

DoS

Truth be told----and I know some people won't like this and will probably ding me for my daring to question the skill of the conference champion champion---but.........

Augie was lucky to escape NCC's "hanger" with a W last evening. On paper, this should have been an easy Viking victory. However, the Cardinals, no doubt buoyed by the festive mood of Senior Night coupled with the largest crowd of the season (with credit to the large contingent of mostly older fans from Rock Island), refused to go quietly, and fought hard throughout.

While a little gloating is certainly warranted, Viking fans should do so more over their conference championship rather than their most recent victory.

An analysis of the game shows that NCC actually outscored Augie from the field by a 52-42 margin. Not exactly the marksmanship you would expect from the #10 team in the country. Even more astonishingly, the Vikings, with SIX players as tall or taller than the Card's tallest player, were OUTrebounded 30-29! Had it not been for the fact that the Vikings were favored with 28 FTAs (making 21) compared to the Cards 11 (7 made), the CCIW conference champs would have suffered what any honest Augie fan would have considered a shocking upset.

No, I'm not saying the refs cost the Cards the game---they didn't take advantage of their chances especially near the end of the game when they missed on the front end of a critical 1 and 1 and then on a last 3 attempt, but Augie fans have to be somewhat concerned as they enter tournament play. Augie fans---aren't you at least a little concerned about being outscored by 10 from the field, and about being out rebounded by a team MUCH shorter both in height and in depth than your's?

As my intent here is just to pose some honest questions for the Augie faithful, and not to bash their beloved Vikings, I too add my congratulations to the Vikings on their THIRD straight CCIW championship. They certainly have done what the 7 other teams would love to have accomplished.   

[Titan Q]

Unfortunately, the Titans wasted an unbelievable individual performance.  On Senior Night, senior Darius Gant had 28 points and 21 rebounds and made every big basket for the Titans down the stretch in regulation.  North Park had no answer for him.  They tried to double and triple team Gant, but his quickness, strength, ability to camp out in the lane for 5-8 seconds at a time,and leaping ability still made him an impossible matchup.  I think Darius solidified his spot on the 1st Team All-CCIW.

Now, kudos to Darius for realizing the refs weren't counting to 3 and taking advantage of it, but there it is.

Not a biggie, but when using the quote feature, I don't think it is appropriate to edit someone's quote (i.e., you added things I did not say in a quote attributed to me).   Best to make your points outside of the direct quote.

[AndOne]

Because the conversation has floated around arenas, and student sections, this season, I have to give my observations of the crowd at the Shirk last night. 

It was impressive to see how many people were there, man would I love to have that many people at North Park games.  If Park gets hot next year, I'd expect to see those bleachers on the stage pulled down for more games than the Wheaton game. 

It was unimpressive how little noise this multitude of people made, North Park's student section is louder, and much more organized.  At one point the Band and the group of about 8 guys in camo shirts were leading the same cheer at offset times, kind of amateur.   

It sure would be nice to have a pep band. 

You have to remember that a large portion of the fans who regularly visit the Shirk are there from the various retirement homes in and around the B-N area. If you don't believe me take a look at a photo of the crowd at any Titan game. Saturday night at the Shirk is the old folks chance to get out on the town and really let their hair down!
With regard to the level of noise generated by the aged throng, it must be remembered that this age group naturally registers the lowest results on the Spirometer so, you would expect a rather quiet group in relation to their large number.      

All kidding aside. I visited every CCIW gym this season as well as several other college arenas in the region. Unfortunately, I must honestly report that the most obnoxious, idiotic, and vile group of buffoons I observed was a small group of Wesleyan students. Specifically, these were 6-8 "fans" in the very first row of the student section at Shirk. Furthermore, they were on the INSIDE of the first row, closest to the center of the arena and were dressed in camo shirts that were a combination of white, green, and brown. During the game, these 6-8 jerks directed racial insults toward an opposing player's hair style, made fun of the appearance of some of the opposition's older fans, and directed profanity toward both visiting players and fans. It was difficult for me to understand how such an outstanding institution of higher learning such as Illinois Wesleyan University could allow this type of behavior. I kid you not!     

[tjcummingsfan]

Unfortunately, the Titans wasted an unbelievable individual performance.  On Senior Night, senior Darius Gant had 28 points and 21 rebounds and made every big basket for the Titans down the stretch in regulation.  North Park had no answer for him.  They tried to double and triple team Gant, but his quickness, strength, ability to camp out in the lane for 5-8 seconds at a time,and leaping ability still made him an impossible matchup.  I think Darius solidified his spot on the 1st Team All-CCIW.

Now, kudos to Darius for realizing the refs weren't counting to 3 and taking advantage of it, but there it is.

Not a biggie, but when using the quote feature, I don't think it is appropriate to edit someone's quote (i.e., you added things I did not say in a quote attributed to me).   Best to make your points outside of the direct quote.

Sorry, I thought bolding it had that affect, it definitely wasn't my intent to make people think you wrote that. 

[usee]

[b]"Historic three-peat"[/b]

Alex Washington had 17 points, Brett Wessels 15, and Dain Swetalla 11 as Augustana not only clinched the CCIW title outright, but also accomplished something that hadn't been done in the conference for 28 years!! The Vikings epitomize "Team" play as Augie had seven different high scorers in 25 games and six different leading rebounders.  Here is the article from The Dispatch:

               http://qconline.com/archives/qco/display.php?id=375922

This is a gloat-free zone...
This is a gloat-free zone...

DoS

Truth be told----and I know some people won't like this and will probably ding me for my daring to question the skill of the conference champion champion---but.........

Augie was lucky to escape NCC's "hanger" with a W last evening. On paper, this should have been an easy Viking victory. However, the Cardinals, no doubt buoyed by the festive mood of Senior Night coupled with the largest crowd of the season (with credit to the large contingent of mostly older fans from Rock Island), refused to go quietly, and fought hard throughout.

While a little gloating is certainly warranted, Viking fans should do so more over their conference championship rather than their most recent victory.

An analysis of the game shows that NCC actually outscored Augie from the field by a 52-42 margin. Not exactly the marksmanship you would expect from the #10 team in the country. Even more astonishingly, the Vikings, with SIX players as tall or taller than the Card's tallest player, were OUTrebounded 30-29! Had it not been for the fact that the Vikings were favored with 28 FTAs (making 21) compared to the Cards 11 (7 made), the CCIW conference champs would have suffered what any honest Augie fan would have considered a shocking upset.

No, I'm not saying the refs cost the Cards the game---they didn't take advantage of their chances especially near the end of the game when they missed on the front end of a critical 1 and 1 and then on a last 3 attempt, but Augie fans have to be somewhat concerned as they enter tournament play. Augie fans---aren't you at least a little concerned about being outscored by 10 from the field, and about being out rebounded by a team MUCH shorter both in height and in depth than your's?

As my intent here is just to pose some honest questions for the Augie faithful, and not to bash their beloved Vikings, I too add my congratulations to the Vikings on their THIRD straight CCIW championship. They certainly have done what the 7 other teams would love to have accomplished.   

I think CCIW road wins are very difficult to come by. And meaningless ones are even harder to play with as much intensity. My view is a win is a win, lucky or not and deservedly so. NCC had em on the ropes and didn't finish.

[armywife]

Augie struggled with shooting and rebounding last night. Hopefully it was distracters that caused that and those distracters won't carry over to this weekends tournament. North Central is a hard place to play for a visiting team, that's a good thing. With the way that Augie played last night, I think they showed a lot of composure when they pulled the game out at the end. The Cardinals did not show that same composure and let it slip away.

North Central did well, they stayed in the game with excellent 3 point shooting and by rebounding. 

[AndOne]

I think CCIW road wins are very difficult to come by. And meaningless ones are even harder to play with as much intensity. My view is a win is a win, lucky or not and deservedly so. NCC had em on the ropes and didn't finish.

Usee----

I think I said that in the 2nd to the last paragraph of my post. NCC failed to capitalize on their late game opportunities.
My point was that Augie did not play like the #10 team in the country, especially against a team they had a decided height advantage over as well as having a much deeper bench. Evidently an honest opinion based on personal observation disturbs you, and I apologize. 

[usee]

I know this'll make alot of people (Q) mad, but as a NP observer I have to point out what I saw...

Unfortunately, the Titans wasted an unbelievable individual performance.  On Senior Night, senior Darius Gant had 28 points and 21 rebounds and made every big basket for the Titans down the stretch in regulation.  North Park had no answer for him.  They tried to double and triple team Gant, but his quickness, strength, ability to camp out in the lane for 5-8 seconds at a time,and leaping ability still made him an impossible matchup.  I think Darius solidified his spot on the 1st Team All-CCIW.

Now, kudos to Darius for realizing the refs weren't counting to 3 and taking advantage of it, but there it is.

Seems to diminish the extraordinary effort of Mr. Gant. I am not buying this. 21 rebounds against a 4 guard lineup and a bunch of clanking 3's (making for long rebounds and weird angles an experienced rebounder would thrive on) are more reasonable explanations.

[usee]

I think CCIW road wins are very difficult to come by. And meaningless ones are even harder to play with as much intensity. My view is a win is a win, lucky or not and deservedly so. NCC had em on the ropes and didn't finish.

Usee----

I think I said that in the 2nd to the last paragraph of my post. NCC failed to capitalize on their late game opportunities.
My point was that Augie did not play like the #10 team in the country, especially against a team they had a decided height advantage over as well as having a much deeper bench. Evidently an honest opinion based on personal observation disturbs you, and I apologize. 

no need to apologize, this does not disturb me in the least. I just disagree (as much as that is possible not having been there  ). I think this league is as tough as any in the country and I would bet any of the top 10 teams in the country would have a problem playing in the hangar in a meaningless game. Augie's struggles don't surprise me in the least. The fact they played through it and still won despite playing poorly confirms their ranking in my mind. I don't think it bothers the voter either since they only moved down from #7-#10 after getting blown out at Wheaton a couple weeks ago and we all know the problems wheaton has with any team who has big men (0fer vs NCC).

[Fox 40]

[b]"Historic three-peat"[/b]

Alex Washington had 17 points, Brett Wessels 15, and Dain Swetalla 11 as Augustana not only clinched the CCIW title outright, but also accomplished something that hadn't been done in the conference for 28 years!! The Vikings epitomize "Team" play as Augie had seven different high scorers in 25 games and six different leading rebounders.  Here is the article from The Dispatch:

               http://qconline.com/archives/qco/display.php?id=375922

This is a gloat-free zone...
This is a gloat-free zone...

DoS

Truth be told----and I know some people won't like this and will probably ding me for my daring to question the skill of the conference champion champion---but.........

Augie was lucky to escape NCC's "hanger" with a W last evening. On paper, this should have been an easy Viking victory. However, the Cardinals, no doubt buoyed by the festive mood of Senior Night coupled with the largest crowd of the season (with credit to the large contingent of mostly older fans from Rock Island), refused to go quietly, and fought hard throughout.

While a little gloating is certainly warranted, Viking fans should do so more over their conference championship rather than their most recent victory.

An analysis of the game shows that NCC actually outscored Augie from the field by a 52-42 margin. Not exactly the marksmanship you would expect from the #10 team in the country. Even more astonishingly, the Vikings, with SIX players as tall or taller than the Card's tallest player, were OUTrebounded 30-29! Had it not been for the fact that the Vikings were favored with 28 FTAs (making 21) compared to the Cards 11 (7 made), the CCIW conference champs would have suffered what any honest Augie fan would have considered a shocking upset.

No, I'm not saying the refs cost the Cards the game---they didn't take advantage of their chances especially near the end of the game when they missed on the front end of a critical 1 and 1 and then on a last 3 attempt, but Augie fans have to be somewhat concerned as they enter tournament play. Augie fans---aren't you at least a little concerned about being outscored by 10 from the field, and about being out rebounded by a team MUCH shorter both in height and in depth than your's?

As my intent here is just to pose some honest questions for the Augie faithful, and not to bash their beloved Vikings, I too add my congratulations to the Vikings on their THIRD straight CCIW championship. They certainly have done what the 7 other teams would love to have accomplished.   

AndOne,

There are no easy road wins.  They barely escaped in Decatur and at Naperville, but this team finds a way to win.  They were down late in both of these contests and worked to get defensive stops and hit big shots.  This coaching staff took a CCIW conference crown with three players (Pelton, Washington, and Collins) who had one start between them last year.  They also worked a transfer into the mix in Brett Wessels,  then throw in Jordan Delp's season ending injury and I'd take any road win I could get with the group.

[thundermike11]

Hey folks, I am new to this whole thing but I wanted to throw in my two cents on the Elmhurst/Wheaton game last night. Elmhurst looked like a completely different team than they did in the first meeting. They seemed dead in the first half. Some of that had to due with the fact that Wheaton was on fire, but I was surprised at how lethargic they looked.

Another thing that I cannot figure out is why Elmhurst does not try to utilize Ruch more. Yes, he had 20 last night, but it felt to me as though he was not really a part of what they were trying to do. In my opinion he should hands-down have the best numbers in the CCIW (for big men) but Andy Wiele has performed a lot better and more consistently.

As a Wheaton fan, it has been great to see Jacob Carwell really crank up his play here at the end of the season, especially against IWU, Augie, and Elmhurst. Having another threat out there can only make them better.

With all that said, I am hoping to make it out to Augie next weekend for the tourney. Should be some outstanding basketball.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

Hey folks, I am new to this whole thing but I wanted to throw in my two cents on the Elmhurst/Wheaton game last night. Elmhurst looked like a completely different team than they did in the first meeting. They seemed dead in the first half. Some of that had to due with the fact that Wheaton was on fire, but I was surprised at how lethargic they looked.

Another thing that I cannot figure out is why Elmhurst does not try to utilize Ruch more. Yes, he had 20 last night, but it felt to me as though he was not really a part of what they were trying to do. In my opinion he should hands-down have the best numbers in the CCIW (for big men) but Andy Wiele has performed a lot better and more consistently.

As a Wheaton fan, it has been great to see Jacob Carwell really crank up his play here at the end of the season, especially against IWU, Augie, and Elmhurst. Having another threat out there can only make them better.

With all that said, I am hoping to make it out to Augie next weekend for the tourney. Should be some outstanding basketball.

Good point thundermile - i wondered that about Elmhurst's offense too - with childs out of the game Elmhurst went to some kind of 3-guard weave offense with Burks passing up all shots unless he was absolutely wide open - like he was afraid of getting his shot blocked.  The other two guards Elmhurst had in the game were offensive non-entities - and that really handicapped their offensive possibilities.  Childs gave them quickness towards the basket, which none of the other three guards wanted to do.

And with Wiele's known defensive liability - it was real strange the Jays didn't work some high low post with Ruch in the low post and Hintschze at the free throw line rather than the vice-versa which was the rule last night.

And yes Carwell did have a nice game for the Thunder.

DoS

[AndOne]

I think CCIW road wins are very difficult to come by. And meaningless ones are even harder to play with as much intensity. My view is a win is a win, lucky or not and deservedly so. NCC had em on the ropes and didn't finish.

Usee----

I think I said that in the 2nd to the last paragraph of my post. NCC failed to capitalize on their late game opportunities.
My point was that Augie did not play like the #10 team in the country, especially against a team they had a decided height advantage over as well as having a much deeper bench. Evidently an honest opinion based on personal observation disturbs you, and I apologize. 

no need to apologize, this does not disturb me in the least. I just disagree (as much as that is possible not having been there ). I think this league is as tough as any in the country and I would bet any of the top 10 teams in the country would have a problem playing in the hangar in a meaningless game. Augie's struggles don't surprise me in the least. The fact they played through it and still won despite playing poorly confirms their ranking in my mind. I don't think it bothers the voter either since they only moved down from #7-#10 after getting blown out at Wheaton a couple weeks ago and we all know the problems wheaton has with any team who has big men (0fer vs NCC).

Well, I WAS there, and Augie just really didn't look like the #10 team in the country.

As far as NCC having "big men." What "big" men did you have in mind?
Augie's starting lineup featured players standing 6'7" and 6'9" against NCC's with 2 6'5" players including a senior starting only because it was senior night. NCC subs included only one player as tall as 6'5" and he played only 7 minutes while Augie played subs that are 6'5", 6'6", 6'7", and 6'9"

With that much of a height advantage, the number 10 team in the country shouldn't get out-rebounded. Also, with such a decided height advantage, NCC had to pack its defense in that much deeper allowing more open Augie looks from the perimeter. Yet, they hit 3 less field goals than did NCC, including 4 less threes. Again, not the mark of a number 10 nationally ranked team.

Lastly, as far as it being a "meaningless" game, I would have to disagree for 2 reasons:
1. With an Augie win they could clinch the CCIW crown outright.
2. By the way the Augie players danced around the court in celebration after the final horn, it was appparent it was anything BUT a meaningless game to them.
But then, you had to be there to see it to know.      

[Titan Q]

Well, I WAS there, and Augie just really didn't look like the #10 team in the country.
 

You may think they don't look like the #10 team in the country, but Augustana just went 11-3 in the College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin.  I don't think there are 10 other teams in Division III that could have done that.

It aint a beauty contest.