MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[aceon2]

Forgot to post...

I was at a high school game last night.  I was standing in the lobby after the game waiting for Coach Steinbrueck to finish talking to a recruit when Illini coach Bruce Weber walks out of the gym into the lobby (he was watching a kid play as well).  I had an IWU pullover on and he walked up, extended his hand, and says, "Good to see you coach.  Ready for Wheaton?"  First, I was shocked a Big Ten coach knew the pairings for the CCIW tournament.  Second, I realize I can't say, "I'm not a coach...I'm the radio guy"...or "I'm Titan Q on CCIW Chat"...or "I'm Coach Steinbrueck's personal assistant."  So I go with it...

Q: "Yeah, it's always tough to beat a good team 3 times, but we're gonna try, coach.  They have a great player we have to deal with.  Who do you guys have next?"

Weber: "Iowa - we need to find a way."

Q: "I hear ya - good luck."

Weber: "Did #32 graduate?  Akeliavonich?"

Q: "Keelan Amelianovich...yes, he graduated 2 years ago.  He was good, coach."

Weber: "He gave us trouble.  How is Stamas doing?  He played for my brother."

Q: "He starts on our JV team, coach."

Weber: "JV team?  Must be a good JV team - he can play."

Q: "We think so.   So, that Indiana deal is a mess."

Weber: "Yeah, but I give those kids credit for playing through it."

Q: "True."

(Illini recruit walks into lobby.)

Weber: (Extending hand) "Good luck to the Titans, coach."

Q: "You too coach - hang in there."


Coach Steinbrueck (walking up): "What were you talking to Bruce Weber about??"

Q: "Just a couple coaches shooting the breeze, Stein."

Great story Q.  Surprising to know that Bruce Weber knows that much about the CCIW.   He obviously has a good memory to remember back when Keelan and the rest of that team played them in the preseason.  You played the whole thing real well...

[tjcummingsfan]

\Could you imagine the Conference tourney in the Cracker Box at NPU, now that would be fun...

I think so

[usee]

Forgot to post...

I was at a high school game last night.  I was standing in the lobby after the game waiting for Coach Steinbrueck to finish talking to a recruit when Illini coach Bruce Weber walks out of the gym into the lobby (he was watching a kid play as well).  I had an IWU pullover on and he walked up, extended his hand, and says, "Good to see you coach.  Ready for Wheaton?"  First, I was shocked a Big Ten coach knew the pairings for the CCIW tournament.  Second, I realize I can't say, "I'm not a coach...I'm the radio guy"...or "I'm Titan Q on CCIW Chat"...or "I'm Coach Steinbrueck's personal assistant."  So I go with it...

Q: "Yeah, it's always tough to beat a good team 3 times, but we're gonna try, coach.  They have a great player we have to deal with.  Who do you guys have next?"

Weber: "Iowa - we need to find a way."

Q: "I hear ya - good luck."

Weber: "Did #32 graduate?  Akeliavonich?"

Q: "Keelan Amelianovich...yes, he graduated 2 years ago.  He was good, coach."

Weber: "He gave us trouble.  How is Stamas doing?  He played for my brother."

Q: "He starts on our JV team, coach."

Weber: "JV team?  Must be a good JV team - he can play."

Q: "We think so.   So, that Indiana deal is a mess."

Weber: "Yeah, but I give those kids credit for playing through it."

Q: "True."

(Illini recruit walks into lobby.)

Weber: (Extending hand) "Good luck to the Titans, coach."

Q: "You too coach - hang in there."


Coach Steinbrueck (walking up): "What were you talking to Bruce Weber about??"

Q: "Just a couple coaches shooting the breeze, Stein."

Great story Q.  Surprising to know that Bruce Weber knows that much about the CCIW.   He obviously has a good memory to remember back when Keelan and the rest of that team played them in the preseason.  You played the whole thing real well...

It helps a little that Keelan and IWU played the Illini in Champaign that year. 

[Titan Q]

A short clip from the local news last night on IWU heading into the tournament...

http://centralillinoisproud.com/media_player.php?media_id=7425

And a blurb about Gant and Johnson making the All-CCIW team with a Gant dunk highlight (which only counts two points)...

http://centralillinoisproud.com/media_player.php?media_id=7393

[kiltedbryan]

In some ways I really like Fox40's think-outside-the-box approach. Why not give the CCIW champ the chance to opt out of the conference tourney if it so chooses? Chuck asks if the D3 selection committee would penalize the CCIW champ if it did that, but the fact of the matter is that there's nothing that the committee could do about it. The D3 handbook does not state how automatically-qualifying conferences are to determine their Pool A representatives -- it merely uses the undefined term "conference champion" -- and the committee is locked into using the five primary criteria in order to determine Pool C selections. There's no provision for penalizing a team for opting out of its conference tournament. Opting out of the conference tournament could also give a coach the chance to rest up his team (especially if he has injury problems) and to allow them to focus upon their schoolwork for an extra week.

On the other hand, I wonder just how many coaches of conference champions would utilize that opt-out clause. I can see coaches insisting that their teams play in the conference tournament just to stay sharp, or to improve their seeding in the D3 bracket, or to spite a rival, or just out of a sheer cussed refusal to back down from the chance to compete. If someone gets the chance this weekend, ask Grey Giavonine if he'd opt out of the CCIW tourney if he could, taking his chances with what is basically a guaranteed Pool C berth for his team this season while Illinois Wesleyan, Wheaton, Elmhurst, and Carthage battle it out for the Pool A berth. I'd sincerely be interested in reading his response.

All in all, though, I'd rather abandon the tournament altogether. I place a high value upon the CCIW getting multiple teams into the D3 tourney, and the conference tourney has worked at cross-purposes to that goal, as demonstrated by last year's Elmhurst debacle -- in spite of the expansion of the D3 tourney and the league office's promises that the conference tournament would help the CCIW's multiple-team chances rather than hurt them.

I think this is an interesting discussion.  I wonder if perhaps Fox40's idea could be adjusted slightly: What would happen if the CCIW gave the Pool A bid to the regular season champion, and allowed that team to opt-out (or perhaps, required that team to opt out) of the CCIW tournament, which would then be held with teams 2-5 in the league.

It seems likely that 1-2, maybe even all 4 of those teams could be in the running for a Pool C bid.  The interesting thing would then be that one of those four teams would be able to have a 2-0 week against good competition to make a strong case to the selection committee and to be eligible for a Pool C bid without incurring a last week of the season loss.

This is probably "gaming" the system, but if your goal is to boost the resume of the CCIW Pool C contenders, then giving one of the 2-5 teams a chance for a 2-0 last week against good competition seems like a neat way, while still providing the regular season champion a guaranteed bid.

[iwumichigander]

If teams could opt-out of the tournaments that decide AQ's with visions of garnering Pool C's, I believe you'd start to hear alot of griping from those "on the bubble" C teams who put their records on the line in the conference tournaments.

A coach from a bubble team could gripe away to his heart's content about an opt-out CCIW champ garnering a Pool C berth, and it wouldn't make a lick of difference. It would simply be a matter of that CCIW champion's coach gaming the system -- just as we gripe about the fact that the NESCAC as a whole games the system by opting to only play a single round-robin.

And, I think a conference, and its member institutions, would get a call from the NCAA and/or a fast NCAA Tournament Guidelines rules change.  An opt-out simply violates the "Division III Philosophy - The Division III championships philosophy is to field the most competitive teams ... to provide representation in NCAA championship competition by allocating berths to eligible conferences, independent institutions and a limited number of at-large teams, realizing that this may be done at the expense of leaving out some championship-caliber teams. (Source: NCAA Championship Handbook - bold added)

Imagine 38 conferences with AQs adopted an opt-out provision.  How realistic would it be those teams currently considered strong Pool C candidates to make the tournament?  Would a CCIW regular season champion opt-out in this scenario? Probably not as it could be worse than taking your chances winning the conference tournament where at least you have some chance to control your destiny.

[matblake]

From the Daily Herald website.  Quotes from Kent Raymond and how Coach Harris feels about the CCIW tournament. http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=144523&src=290

[iwumichigander]

8 team versus current 4 team tournament - as I recall:
With the decision made to have a conference tournament, the format (four teams, conference regular season champion host) was adopted, in part, because the CCIW Women's Basketball was already using this format; and, the its committee (Women's) was opposed to an eight team tournament.  Beyond that, the Athletic Directors and insitutional President's (both whom had gone through significant discussion and implementation struggles with Title IX) were not about to support two different formats in the same sport - one for men and one for women.  Note: in Volleyball, Soccer, Basketball, Baseball & Softball the regular season champions all host the respective sport tournament.

[martin]

The Sun Times focuses on Kent Raymond in its Friday small college column. He says he will not be back next year.

CCIW part of the story - hope reposting this much is OK.

Wheaton's Raymond has one thing in mind
SMALL COLLEGES | Awards are nice, but star guard seeks CCIW tourney title

February 29, 2008
BY DARYL VAN SCHOUWEN dvanschouwen@suntimes.com
The awards were piled high this week on Wheaton guard Kent Raymond, who was ''humbled'' by them but probably needs one more big one -- a CCIW tournament title -- to keep his career going.

For the second consecutive year, Raymond was named College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin player of the year. He also was named to ESPN The Magazine's Academic All-America team and was named one of 10 male finalists for the prestigious Jostens Award, given to Division III basketball players who best exhibit basketball ability, academic prowess and community service.

''It's very humbling to receive those awards, in particular to be one of the 10 finalists for the Jostens Award,'' Raymond said. ''It was very unexpected. I'm honored by that.''

Raymond, who sat out his sophomore season to reassess his personal and spiritual life, will graduate in May with a degree in Communication: Rhetoric and Culture. He'll forgo his final year of eligibility and pursue a job in financial services, which is why the tournament this weekend is so personally significant.

Wheaton will be on the bubble, at best, for the Division III tournament if it doesn't win the four-team conference meet at Augustana, so Raymond knows he's facing the possibility of playing his last college game.

The third-seeded Thunder (19-6, 9-5) plays No. 2 Illinois Wesleyan (15-10, 9-5) at 6 tonight. No. 4 Elmhurst (18-7, 8-6) plays No. 1 Augustana (20-5, 11-3) at 8. The title game is at 7:30 p.m. Saturday. Wheaton has won five of its last six, including a 73-60 home triumph against Augustana on Feb. 13. The loss during that stretch was by two points at Illinois Wesleyan.

''We're feeling really confident, especially on the defensive end,'' Raymond said. ''We're playing well as a team on defense.''

Raymond has been a force on the offensive end, averaging 31 points in his last two games. He ranks 13th in Division III with 23 points per game and is shooting 88 percent from the free-throw line. He's 11th on Wheaton's all-time scoring list with 1,504 points in three seasons and owns a career scoring average of 20.3, the second-highest in school history.

''I have a very competitive nature,'' said Raymond, who is from New Palestine, Ind. ''When I'm on the court, people say I play hard no matter the situation.

''People close to me say I'm a passionate person about everything I do. When I give myself to an activity, I give it everything I have.''

• • Joining Raymond on the All-CCIW first team were Carthage guard Steve Djurickovic, Augustana guard Brett Wessels, Elmhurst center Brent Ruch and Illinois Wesleyan forward Darius Gant. The second team featured Elmhurst guard Ryan Burks, North Park forward Nick Williams (Niles North), Wheaton center Andy Wiele, Augustana center Dain Swetalla and North Central forward Chris Drennan. Augustana's Grey Giovanine was named coach of the year for the third consecutive season.

[Titan Q]

I understand the thinking of preferring an 8-team tournament vs 4 teams -- basically that the runner-up is 2-1 instead of 1-1.  But I'm not sure an 8-team tournament is all that great either...

Here are the results of an 8-team tournament:

3-0
2-1
1-1
1-1
0-1
0-1
0-1
0-1

If the highest seeds win each game, the #2 seed finishes 2-1.  That .667 winning % doesn't hurt, but it doesn't really help either.  This would be the impact on the CCIW's current top 3 Pool C candidates with 2-1 tacked on:

Wheaton (15-6, .714) -- 17-7 = .708
Elmhurst (17-7, .708) -- 19-8 = .704
Illinios Wesleyan (14-8, .636) = 16-9 = .640

Assuming the host wins the tournament, only if IWU got to the championship game and lost would the 2nd place finisher come out any better, and the Titans would just go from .636 to .640.  Wheaton and Elmhurst would both actually go down in in-region winning percentage.  And remember, only one team can go 2-1.  Two are going to go 1-1 -- if those are your other top two Pool C candidates, their position is still hurt. 

And 4 teams are going to go 0-1.  With the parity in the CCIW, which I think we all believe is only going to increase, is it crazy to think 4 could lose to 5, or 3 to 6, or 2 to 7, or even 1 to 8 every now and then?  Hypothetical 2008 CCIW Tournament, 8-team field:

#1 Augustana vs #8 Millikin
#2 Illinois Wesleyan vs #7 North Central
#3 Wheaton vs #6 North Park
#4 Elmhurst vs #5 Carthage

Any upset possibilities there?

Why put your top 3 Pool C candidates - which a lot of years will have strong Pool C cases after 25 games - in position to get upset in Round 1?  From last week in the WIAC...

#6 UW-Eau Claire 84 @ #3 UW-Platteville 80
#5 UW-Superior 67 @ #4 UW-Oshkosh 66


Is an 8-team tournament that much better than 4?

[buf]

Why put your top 3 Pool C candidates - which a lot of years will have strong Pool C cases after 25 games - in position to get upset in Round 1?  From last week in the WIAC...

#6 UW-Eau Claire 84 @ #3 UW-Platteville 80
#5 UW-Superior 67 @ #4 UW-Oshkosh 66


Is an 8-team tournament that much better than 4?

Actually, EC was a #7 seed, while UWP was a #2.

[74impala]

Is there video available for tonight's games?

[LU_nut]

Any idea why the CCIW does not do the video deal the MWC does?  or do they?   Not a bad deal.  For $69 you can see all yoru teams games, usually with the local announcers which are generally a kick to listen to.

The quality is really not too bad.  Hook the computer up to the TV and things work pretty good.

BTW, I have no idea what the financial arrangements are behind the scenes.  I do know that the CCIW surely has well over twice the following of the MWC(schools tend to be 2x size plus traditionally better ball).

[April]

Good luck to Wheaton tonight over in Rock Island!!! 

No matter what happens, Congrats to Denham and Raymond on excellent careers. It's been a pleasure watching you develop as players, even if the last several years have been from a distance.

[John Gleich]

Is an 8-team tournament that much better than 4?

That one's really up to interpretation...  A 4 seed who wins in the first round of the conf tournament against the 5 seed gets another win, and doesn't go 0-1 in the conf tournament (and I recall reading on the Pool C board that the NCAA selection committee has historically not taken teams who go 0-1), then their place would be improved.

But yes, there is always the possibility that they would lose the game.  The same possibility that they would lose every other game throughout the year, but a possibility, nonetheless.