MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[matblake]

Those 1995 and 1996 season games between IWU and Wheaton were some of the most memorable CCIW games of my years around the league.  I remember having to get to Memorial Gym at Wheaton before the JV game to get a seat.  Those Titan and Crusader teams could play.

I was still in school at Wheaton then.  That 95 team was great fun to watch.  I still sometimes think about what could have been if Tim Seneff hadn't blown out his knee in the CCIW finale v. Carthage.  Matt Nadelhoffer did a great job in competing against Hanover, especially because he was still relatively new to the rotation. 

Oh, and just to be nitpicky, the name of the gym at Wheaton at that time was Centennial Gym. 

I remember going down to the Shirk that year and riding Chris Simich all game.  True to form, he came to play in the OT period and Crabtree nailed the 3 to dagger the heart of us then Crusaders.  Fortunately, the memory of a Wesley Pitts dunk at the game at Wheaton makes me feel a lot better. 

[matblake]

Sac, you missed the most exciting of all - the year Wheaton defeated Grinnell and scored over 130 points.  Sadly, they were smoked by Wash U in the second round.  Must have been all that running around.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Wheaton point-guard (and my favorite non-IWU CCIW player ever) Matt Nadlehoffer get injured towards the end of that Grinnell game, putting him in street clothes for the Wash U game in Round 2?

I could've sworn that it was Tim Seneff, not Matt Nadelhoffer, who hurt his knee in that Wheaton/Grinnell game.

You're right..he blew out his knee going up for a dunk.

I remember Tim hurting his knee in the regular season finale v Carthage in 95.  Matt Nadelhoffer came in a played valiantly against Hanover.  The Wheaton/Grinnell game was in 96.

[matblake]

Sac, you missed the most exciting of all - the year Wheaton defeated Grinnell and scored over 130 points.  Sadly, they were smoked by Wash U in the second round.  Must have been all that running around.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Wheaton point-guard (and my favorite non-IWU CCIW player ever) Matt Nadlehoffer get injured towards the end of that Grinnell game, putting him in street clothes for the Wash U game in Round 2?

I could've sworn that it was Tim Seneff, not Matt Nadelhoffer, who hurt his knee in that Wheaton/Grinnell game.

You're right..he blew out his knee going up for a dunk.

I remember Tim hurting his knee in the regular season finale v Carthage in 95.  Matt Nadelhoffer came in a played valiantly against Hanover.  The Wheaton/Grinnell game was in 96.

Actually in thinking about it, it was not Nadelhoffer who came in, it was Rob Hamann. 

[Mugsy]

I'm probably nicer to you than anyone in either the basketball room or the football room -- and you're a Wheatie and I'm a Parker. How sick is that?

That is pretty twisted.  Perhaps you've been lenient due to the fact I have a Parker wife and I'm a life long Covie (attended Glen Ellyn Covenant Church since 1970)?

[usee]

I'm probably nicer to you than anyone in either the basketball room or the football room -- and you're a Wheatie and I'm a Parker. How sick is that?

That is pretty twisted.  Perhaps you've been lenient due to the fact I have a Parker wife and I'm a life long Covie (attended Glen Ellyn Covenant Church since 1970)?

Hey, I'm nicer to Mugsy than anyone on these boards!

[Mugsy]

I'm probably nicer to you than anyone in either the basketball room or the football room -- and you're a Wheatie and I'm a Parker. How sick is that?

That is pretty twisted.  Perhaps you've been lenient due to the fact I have a Parker wife and I'm a life long Covie (attended Glen Ellyn Covenant Church since 1970)?

Hey, I'm nicer to Mugsy than anyone on these boards!

Probably true... fortunately almost everyone is "nice" and the mockery is only in jest not in spite.   Right?


Umm... at least I think.   

Actually the number of people who supported me or wished me well in running the Chicago marathon to raise money for a school that treats kids with autism and to support their families is a clear indication of the type of people on the CCIW boards.  I'm not sure if I ever mentioned it, but we raised nearly $1500 on short notice due to the generousity of people like those who post here.

[vikingfan]

Last year things got back to normal with IWU recruiting very hard (as Augie does every single year).  The Titans landed two kids Augie wanted bad (Doug Sexauer and Edmond O'Callaghan) and at least another two they were on (Dan Schouten and Chris Stamas), while not losing anyone to the Vikings.  We'll see what happens this year - it is definitely really competitive this year. 

Actually, Ron Rose did lose at least one recruit to Giovanine last year. Kyle Nelson from Deerfield was recruited heavily by both programs and is now playing for Augie.

[Mugsy]

Last year things got back to normal with IWU recruiting very hard (as Augie does every single year).  The Titans landed two kids Augie wanted bad (Doug Sexauer and Edmond O'Callaghan) and at least another two they were on (Dan Schouten and Chris Stamas), while not losing anyone to the Vikings.  We'll see what happens this year - it is definitely really competitive this year. 

Actually, Ron Rose did lose at least one recruit to Giovanine last year. Kyle Nelson from Deerfield was recruited heavily by both programs and is now playing for Augie.

Hmm... jnelson814@comcast.net.  So what relation are you to Kyle?   

[veterancciwfan]

1) Wow, Wheaton played South Dakota, Ky. Wesleyan & Evansville in the Small College Division tourney in the 1950s. That is good competition. In the 1950s and 1960s, the NAIA National Tournament was probably just as competitive.

2) Just wondering if Augustana would trade 2 of its last 3 CCIW regular season championships for one Final 4 appearance?

3) Greg: Very informative post about the CCIW and Final 4 and Elite appearances. I will amplify your stats by pointing out that D3 was not nearly as strong from its inception in 1975 through the early part of the 1980s. In my opinion, the NAIA tournament still featured stronger teams during that period. But the NAIA couldn't win a money war with the NCAA and many former NAIA teams switched to D3 because of travel reimbursements the NCAA paid to D3 tournament teams. 

4) As I have posted in the past, I would prefer to see the D3 tourney switch to an 8-team format and held at the same location every year, similar to the D2 format. Playing the 3rd round at schools that remain in the tournament is an unfair advantage for the host school. The only real tournament for D3 is the Final 4 and the odds of making it are remote.

[Viking Mike]

Great News out of Rock Island today!

The Rock Island Argus has reported that Senior Jordan Delp "has decided to utilize a medical redshirt opportunity and come back for one more year of play for Coach Giovanine"  This is excellent news coming just at the right time!
   With Delp playing THIS year, Augie may have had enough offensive firepower to make it to the sectionals and a possible trip to Salem.  Unfortunately for Augie, in the regional final they just didn't shoot well enough from outside or get timely baskets to take any kind of lead.  And when the Vikes did get a lead, Wash U. was able to quickly counter.  That was a phenomenal game to watch between 2 heavyweight teams.  It was just too bad it had to be played so early in the tourney.  It will be interesting to see if Buena Vista or Milsap can even play with this team.  Wash U was well prepared for Augie and were not intimidated by the Viking crowd which was loud and supportive for the majority of the game.  I forget that when Augie beat them in November, they still had Delp and the Bears point guard Wallis had just gone down with a fractured leg!
     Sound like I'm making excuses?...maybe so...but when I look back on the entire season, I am very proud of this team.  We may have been just a "Delp" from making the
Final Four.  All of Augie Nation was disappointed with Saturday's outcome, but not because they lost to an inferior team.  The Vikings were just one rebound or trey from winning that game before the Bears snatched it in overtime.   Most knew sometime in the first half that the ball was not bouncing Augie's way.  They were not getting crucial rebounds and Wash U  was getting easy put backs.  However when Collins hit those 2 free throws with .9 sec left in the game to send it to overtime, everyone in Rock Island, except Wash U, thought the Vikes would win it.  But it just wasn't meant to be!
     It would be nice to see the NCAA seed the top teams in the future and disperse them a little better among the regions.  There is no way that Wash U and Augie should have been playing each other so early in the tourney.  This seemed like a sectional final game instead of a regional.  Many CCIW followers are voicing disappointment with Augustana's short run but I see it as a failed opportunity to advance against a top team that will probably advance to the Final Four.  Fortunately all of us Viking fans have next year to look forward to as 9 of 12 top players return along with Div 1 transfer Keaton Frye (injured) and Jordan Delp!!!  Great season Augie!  Hold your heads high as you have had a great season and won the CCIW for the third year in a row!!!

[Gregory Sager]

3) Greg: Very informative post about the CCIW and Final 4 and Elite appearances. I will amplify your stats by pointing out that D3 was not nearly as strong from its inception in 1975 through the early part of the 1980s. In my opinion, the NAIA tournament still featured stronger teams during that period. But the NAIA couldn't win a money war with the NCAA and many former NAIA teams switched to D3 because of travel reimbursements the NCAA paid to D3 tournament teams.

The D3 tourney was plenty strong in the early days, Lanny. F'rinstance, I'd put the Upsala team that North Park beat in the 1980 title game right up there with those formidable Kalsow/Bennett UWSP teams of recent years. That Upsala team had in Steve Keenan and Elonya "Tiny" Green an absolutely outstanding inside/outside combo. The Wittenberg and Longwood teams in that Final Four were definitely modern-D3-caliber Final Four teams as well. I saw several other great D3 teams during that era that would compare with any team today -- the Augie teams at the turn of the decade that featured Maxwell Artis, Bill Rapier, Shane Price, and Craig Brittnum; the early '80s Wabash teams with Pete Metzelaars and Merlin Nice; the early '80s UW-Whitewater teams with Mark Linde and Andre McKoy; etc. And while I never got to see any of the great Potsdam State teams of the late '70s and early '80s (Derrick Rowland, Ed Jachim, Leroy Witherspoon, Maurice Woods, etc.), I know that at least a couple of those guys were NBA draftees. A lot of the schools that were in those late '70s and early '80s D3 tournaments -- Mansfield, Albany, CSU-Humboldt, CSU-Sonoma, UW-Milwaukee, Longwood, Chaminade, LeMoyne-Owen, Lane, CSU-Stanislaus, Clark Atlanta, Miles, etc. -- moved up to the D1 and D2 ranks, and the NAIA influx replaced them.

From time to time there have been posters who have badmouthed the early days of the D3 tournament while addressing me, as a not-so-subtle way of putting down those first three North Park championship teams. Believe me, those North Park teams with Harper, Greer, and Thomas could stand up to anyone who has followed after them in the three subsequent decades of D3 basketball -- and those Vikings squads did not win their three national titles in cakewalks through easy fields, either. They had to beat some very good teams on their way to those national titles.

4) As I have posted in the past, I would prefer to see the D3 tourney switch to an 8-team format and held at the same location every year, similar to the D2 format. Playing the 3rd round at schools that remain in the tournament is an unfair advantage for the host school. The only real tournament for D3 is the Final 4 and the odds of making it are remote.

It won't happen, Lanny. An Elite Eight final weekend instead of a Final Four final weekend would mean more missed classes for those eight teams, because they'd have to travel to Salem a day or two earlier. The trend in D3 is to reduce missed class time, not increase it.

[Pat Coleman]

Actually, this has been talked about, because potentially compressing the tournament into two weeks instead of three would counteract that missed class time.

Not in favor here, either, though.

[Gregory Sager]

Great News out of Rock Island today!

The Rock Island Argus has reported that Senior Jordan Delp "has decided to utilize a medical redshirt opportunity and come back for one more year of play for Coach Giovanine"  This is excellent news coming just at the right time!
   With Delp playing THIS year, Augie may have had enough offensive firepower to make it to the sectionals and a possible trip to Salem.  Unfortunately for Augie, in the regional final they just didn't shoot well enough from outside or get timely baskets to take any kind of lead.  And when the Vikes did get a lead, Wash U. was able to quickly counter.  That was a phenomenal game to watch between 2 heavyweight teams.  It was just too bad it had to be played so early in the tourney.  It will be interesting to see if Buena Vista or Milsap can even play with this team.  Wash U was well prepared for Augie and were not intimidated by the Viking crowd which was loud and supportive for the majority of the game.  I forget that when Augie beat them in November, they still had Delp and the Bears point guard Wallis had just gone down with a fractured leg!
     Sound like I'm making excuses?...maybe so...but when I look back on the entire season, I am very proud of this team.  We may have been just a "Delp" from making the
Final Four.

While I'm glad for Delp's sake that he'll get his extra year of basketball, I'm always skeptical of these kinds of post-injury counterfactuals that fans of losing teams clutch at like straws. "If only so-and-so hadn't been hurt, we definitely would've won this game or that game!" (Not that you worded it as though it would've been a done deal, of course.) Thing is, we not only don't know that for sure, we can't even be certain that the team would've been better with Delp. Sure, it seems as though he would've been the missing ingredient in that game last weekend, especially since Augustana has not been a great outside-shooting team this season in his absence. But teammates sometimes rally around each other and step up their individual games when an important player goes down, and they find a way to rise up to unexpected heights in that player's absence. I'd argue that that's exactly what Augustana did this season in making its way to the CCIW championship. Heck, Wash U itself is a prime example of that this season; while Troy Ruths and Tyler Nading are outstanding players in their own right, point guard Sean Wallis was the guy who made that team go. Most observers thought that he was irreplaceable -- and yet Wash U has replaced him and is now in the Sweet Sixteen and has to be seen as the favorite in its sectional to get to the Final Four.

Could an Augie team that had a healthy Delp all season still be playing now? Sure. As I said, Augie's weakness this season was also the ingredient that Delp supplies, outside shooting. But nobody can play the "what-if" game and say with any amount of certitude that Augustana would be suiting up for action this coming weekend if Delp hadn't been hurt. I realize that you didn't claim that Augie would've made it to the sectionals with Delp. I'm just saying that we can't ever know how it would've turned out with Delp either way ... and that sometimes losing a good player can, paradoxically, turn out to be a positive.

It would be nice to see the NCAA seed the top teams in the future and disperse them a little better among the regions.

Yes, that would be nice, but it's not realistic to wish for that sort of a bracket. While I think that this March's bracket could've been tweaked a bit and evened out more, the idea of seeding teams nationally and dispersing them hither and yon based upon that seeding is totally unrealistic. The D3 tournament's first mandate is to keep the costs down, because the unfortunate truth is that it doesn't pay for itself. This tournament loses money for the NCAA, so in effect it's subsidized by the big boys in D1. Thus, it's run on the cheap, which means that geographic proximity and travel costs are the primary concerns rather than balancing the bracket competitively.

[Gregory Sager]

Actually, this has been talked about, because potentially compressing the tournament into two weeks instead of three would counteract that missed class time.

Not in favor here, either, though.

That would mean condensing the front end of the tourney into a three- or four-day affair as well as the back end, which is something that I'll admit hadn't occurred to me.

[Pat Coleman]

Yep, indeed. I don't think it's realistic -- at least, I hope it's not.