MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

Ralph, my single favorite player was actually the THIRD-string catcher, Johnny Blanchard.  Wonder what ever happened to him?  (I'd look it up, but I'm afraid my childhood memories would be squashed!)

During his major league career, Johnny Blanchard actually appeared in more games as an outfielder (169) than as a catcher (155).

[Pat Coleman]

That's like having Johnny Wockenfuss be your favorite 1984 Tiger.

Wockenfuss was not on the '84 team.  Before the start of the season, he got shipped to Philadelphia in the Willie Hernandez trade, the key to the Tigers' World Series title.

Crap.

Put Johnny Grubb in that spot then.

[AndOne]

Yes, but in the 2nd inning with runners on  2nd and 3rd and 2 out, I DON'T want to have to watch the pitcher bat. Sure, there is a small chance he'll bring in the run, but chances are much better I can go to the fridge for a snack and/or a beer and not really miss anything. You can count the number of pitchers who can hit one one hand, possibly two. When I watch a game I want ACTION and scoring, not watching the pitcher wave good afternoon, good evening, and good night. I think dull, low scoring games are one reason soccer has not captured the fancy of the vast majority of American sports fans.  Isn't the ACTION of basketball one reason we're attracted to the sport? Guess I'm not a traditionalist. Much rather have the added action of having a DH rather than the managerial chess moves. As we have "role players" and "specialists" in several sports, including basketball, perhaps think of the designated hitters in those veins rather than as the tired and rusted out hulks many indeed have become. 

I don't think that "action" is much of an argument in favor of the DH, because baseball isn't a game that's predicated upon action in the way that other sports are. Baseball is as much about the anticipation of action[/i] and about speculation as to the next piece of action as it is about action itself. That's why a lot of people who are really into the more action-oriented sports, such as basketball and football, find baseball to be boring. "Nine-man stand-around" is a typical putdown term for baseball among action-obsessed sports fans. But it's the space in between pitches that define the game as much as the pitches, or the hits, themselves. Baseball is like music in that regard; the spaces in between the notes and chords matter as much as do the notes and chords themselves.

Point made!

But, I'll still take the anticipation of a run scoring hit by someone other than the pitcher (the DH may have hit earlier in the lineup) rather than the anticipation of a likely strikeout by the pitcher.   

[AndOne]

Hockey is popular?  NHL ratings are somewhere below those of poker!  The Red Wings/Penguins Cup finals (the most anticipated matchup in years) got ratings that would get programs cancelled on most cable channels!

As a Red Wings fan and soccer fan (and ex-coach), I'll stand by my assertion that the overwhelming majority of Americans don't grasp the intricacies of either game.

Hockey is popular in the sense that enough Americans have watched the sport to grasp a fair knowledge of the game's tactics. "Forechecking" and "dump-and-chase" are not unfamiliar terms to the average American sports fan. "Intricacies of the game" is a subjective term. What you and I consider to be intricacies of the sports that we follow are probably well beyond that of the casual fan anywhere. I doubt that the casual fan anywhere knows the intricacies of the sports he occasionally watches.

You're right that hockey trails badly behind football, basketball, and baseball in popularity in the U.S., and it doesn't seem to be gaining a lot of new converts, either -- but, again, that reflects the same criticisms that Americans level at soccer. As is the case with soccer, there's very little scoring in hockey, and the one-goal-at-a-time incremental scoring common to both sports hampers enjoyment of the game in a way that sports in which a team can go from being behind to being ahead in one fell swoop (or vice-versa), such as baseball (multiple runs can score on one play), basketball (made shots are worth one, two, or three points), and football (a play can result in one, two, three, or six points, depending upon the circumstances), don't have to worry about.

Hockey may lag in popularity behind the other "major" sports and scoring may only be slightly higher than soccer, but if you attend an NHL game, I think you'll find that you can't beat the overall, start to finish, level of excitement. A good hockey game has an "electric" feeling/atmosphere throughout the entire game.   

[Ralph Turner]

Stanley Cup Nielsen's 1995-2007

Stagg Bowl 2007 Ratings = 1.54

I think that D-III Stagg Bowl is becoming as popular as the Stanley Cup!   

2008 numbers with the Penguins and the Red Wings.  This is just a one year setback.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Stanley Cup Nielsen's 1995-2007

Stagg Bowl 2007 Ratings = 1.54

I think that D-III Stagg Bowl is becoming as popular as the Stanley Cup!   

2008 numbers with the Penguins and the Red Wings.  This is just a one year setback.

Maybe.  Wings/Penguins was the most anticipated Cup in at least a decade, yet still finished below any Cup from 1995-2002.  Aside from a few hotbeds like Detroit and Minnesota, hockey is in big trouble.  And even in 'Hockeytown', a whole lot of fans came disguised as empty seats this year.  (Though I believe the Cup finals whupped all comers in the Nielsen ratings for the Detroit area.)

[Gregory Sager]

I am surprised that Greg did not mention that the Chicago Storm's principal owner is Viktor Jakovljevic who played soccer at North Park.  This is left out of his bio on the Storm website, but Viktor scored 15 goals as a freshman and was absolutely a great kid and player.

I didn't mention it because I didn't know it. You've dropped some knowledge on me today, Senor Millikin ... muchas gracias!

[petemcb]

Will any posters be out at Deerfield Thursday night for the summer league action? 

[Gregory Sager]

July 4 doubleheader in 1961 - 83,000 fans.

Not only were the Yankees great then, but every team that came to town was gunning for them (except Kansas City, of course, they were a Yankee farm team).

Actually, by that point the symbiotic relationship between the New York Yankees and the Kansas City Athletics had been severed. Charlie Finley bought the A's from Arnold Johnson in December 1960, and unlike Johnson Finley had plenty of money (he was an insurance tycoon). He saw no need to continue fortifying the A's ledgers by sending his best young talent to New York in exchange for cash and washed-up players that the Yanks no longer needed.

That's like having Johnny Wockenfuss be your favorite 1984 Tiger.

No, mine was Alan Trammel.

Nonsense - it was Rusty Kuntz!

Greg - wasn't Rusty Kuntz a North Park student at one time (he didn't play baseball at NPC)?

He might've taken a class or two at North Park while he was busy polishing the home dugout's bench with his butt at old Comiskey Park, but I honestly don't ever remember seeing him on campus or hearing anyone talk about him -- and he was with the White Sox at the exact same time that I was a North Park undergrad (1979-83). As Mr. B said, Kuntz did play for Stanislaus State in '76 and '77, so he was a D3 baseball player, since that was long before CSU-Stanislaus moved from D3 to D2.

[Gregory Sager]

Hockey may lag in popularity behind the other "major" sports and scoring may only be slightly higher than soccer, but if you attend an NHL game, I think you'll find that you can't beat the overall, start to finish, level of excitement. A good hockey game has an "electric" feeling/atmosphere throughout the entire game. 

I actually enjoy watching hockey, although it's a game that I think lends itself much better to being seen in person than being seen on television. I agree with you about the atmosphere. I've always enjoyed going down to Madison Street to see the Blackhawks, although it's a little less fun at the United Center than it used to be at old Chicago Stadium.

And, anticipating Chuck, I'm sure that he will counter that our caveats should apply just as much to soccer as they do to hockey. There's some truth to that, but two things hockey offers that soccer doesn't are the speed of the game (compounded by the fact that a hockey rink is much smaller than a soccer pitch) and its violent element. Watching a player at full speed check an opponent into the boards carries the same visceral thrill as watching a linebacker bury a running back into the turf.

But the scoring thing, plus the fact that it doesn't seem to translate as well to TV as do other sports (maybe it just needs some Don Cherry clones ), seems to keep Americans from fully embracing hockey.

[sac]

.......... hockey is in big trouble. 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2008

NHL attendance dropped a whopping 1% from 2007 in a tough economy, NHL franchise values are up.   The NHL players association projects revenues to reach $2.575B this season, an 11.1-percent increase over the 2006-07

The NHL is so conscerned about costs they were able to increase this years salary cap by 6.5 million and have increased it by 13 million over 2 years.   The minimum salary basement for a team in 40 million.   If you look at strictly average roster salaries per player the NHL salary cap is now greater than the NFL's.

This doesn't sound like a league in trouble Mr.Y............the only thing the NHL doesn't have is a big TV contract.  Otherwise hockey is doing just fine as a business.



........and I'll add one of the many reasons the neilson ratings were lower for the most recent cups is because the playoffs have largely been on the VS "network".  Which not many people even know exists.......I had to explain to my brother he could catch the Wings in the playoffs, on TV even, on this VS network, .....this was in late May.  Losing the ESPN audience killed any hopes at good TV ratings.

[Gregory Sager]

.......... hockey is in big trouble. 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2008

NHL attendance dropped a whopping 1% from 2007 in a tough economy, NHL franchise values are up.   The NHL players association projects revenues to reach $2.575B this season, an 11.1-percent increase over the 2006-07

The NHL is so conscerned about costs they were able to increase this years salary cap by 6.5 million and have increased it by 13 million over 2 years.   The minimum salary basement for a team in 40 million.   If you look at strictly average roster salaries per player the NHL salary cap is now greater than the NFL's.

This doesn't sound like a league in trouble Mr.Y............the only thing the NHL doesn't have is big TV contract.  Otherwise hockey is doing just fine as a business.

Hockey fans are an extremely loyal bunch. The longstanding joke in Chicago is that there are only 20,000 Blackhawks fans in town, but they go to every game.

And even in 'Hockeytown', a whole lot of fans came disguised as empty seats this year. 

Yeah, and I don't get that. Who wouldn't want to attend a sporting event that holds the promise of an eight-armed cephalopod being flung onto the playing surface?

In the immortal words of Kenny Banya, "That's gold, Jerry ... gold!"

[Gotberg]

There's some truth to that, but two things hockey offers that soccer doesn't are the speed of the game (compounded by the fact that a hockey rink is much smaller than a soccer pitch) and its violent element. Watching a player at full speed check an opponent into the boards carries the same visceral thrill as watching a linebacker bury a running back into the turf.

Have you ever watched a Barclay's (English) Premier League game?  It's not the prettiest soccer out there, but it's fast and furious - at least by soccer standards.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

That's like having Johnny Wockenfuss be your favorite 1984 Tiger.

No, mine was Alan Trammel.

Nonsense - it was Rusty Kuntz!

Greg - wasn't Rusty Kuntz a North Park student at one time (he didn't play baseball at NPC)?

Kuntz batted cleanup for Cal State Stanislaus.  Here is the boxscore from Stanislaus' win over Montclair State in the 1976 D3 World Series: http://www.odaconline.com/div3base/1976/boxscores/76box04.htm

I have no record of Kuntz ever playing for the Vikings.

http://www.cadillac76.com/baseball/history/archives.html

Mr. B - i knew he never played for North Park - but wasn't he a batting practice pitcher for the Cubs for a while - or am I getting him confused with someone else who attended North Park and pitched BP for the Cubs.

MW

[Gregory Sager]

Have you ever watched a Barclay's (English) Premier League game?  It's not the prettiest soccer out there, but it's fast and furious - at least by soccer standards.

No, I haven't, but I can't imagine that it packs even one-tenth of the bone-jarring full-speed collisions of a typical NHL game.

I'll admit that it's probably an unfair stereotype, but the impression that a lot of American sports fans seem to have about the physical aspect of soccer is that it involves a lot of theatrical flopping by players who're seeking to get the ref to hand an opponent a yellow card.