MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

Was curious regarding which teams had the most/least starters returning this year.
Reviewing the starters for each conference team in its final game last season reveals North Park and Carthage present, on paper, the most opportunities for new faces to break into the lineup. Both teams have only 2 players returning who started the final game last season. Millikin is next with three. All the remaining teams have 4 starters returning, except Wheaton and *North Central which have all 5 players who started the final game last season returning this year. 

NORTH CENTRAL:
Prince
Barringer
Drennan
*Raridon--Sr. J. Williams was injured, and was on the floor only for the opening tip
*Rogers---Sr J. Johnson started due to the fact it was senior night. Otherwise
                 Rogers would have been the starter.

NORTH PARK:
Stevens
Williams

This, of course, does not take into account any other teams besides North Central who may have been honoring seniors in their last game. Also, newcomers can always break into a starting lineup by winning a spot from an incumbent. This list just shows how things stacked up ending last season and beginning this year.

Was curious regarding which teams had the most/least starters returning this year.
Reviewing the starters for each conference team in its final game last season reveals North Park and Carthage present, on paper, the most opportunities for new faces to break into the lineup. Both teams have only 2 players returning who started the final game last season.

NORTH PARK:
Stevens
Williams

This is a misnomer, because Stephano Jones was a starter in 2006-07 and would've been a starter last season as well if he hadn't taken a year off from school.

Or, not so much of a misnomer given the last (highlighted) sentence of my original post on the subject!
At least in the case of North Central the 2 players, who would have started had it not been senior night, were actually on the team last season.

[Mr. Ypsi]

My sense is that this is spot on.  I could easily envision IWU making it to Salem, and fear that they won't even make the conference tourney - it's gonna be brutal.

You can "easily envision" a team completely dominated by underclassmen (maybe 80%+ of the playing time from sophomores and freshmen) making it to the Final Four??  Oh my.

Hey, I'm also a UM fan.  Two words: Fab Five.

I didn't say I expected it (and I also worried they might not even make the conference tourney), but I feel sorry for fans whose teams are such that they can't even envision a trip to Salem before the season even starts!

[Mr. Ypsi]

My sense is that this is spot on.  I could easily envision IWU making it to Salem, and fear that they won't even make the conference tourney - it's gonna be brutal.

Chuck, if there was ever a year in which you didn't "easily envision IWU making it to Salem," I would immediately suspect that someone had stolen your log-in and password.

Yeah, but in the past I never would have added "fear that they won't even make the conference tourney"!

[iwumichigander]

My sense is that this is spot on.  I could easily envision IWU making it to Salem, and fear that they won't even make the conference tourney - it's gonna be brutal.

You can "easily envision" a team completely dominated by underclassmen (maybe 80%+ of the playing time from sophomores and freshmen) making it to the Final Four??  Oh my.

Mr. Ypsi - Please clean and polish your green tinted glasses.  I do think the goals this season can be set higher; but, getting into CCIW tournament and getting a NCAA bid a little more realistic.  It would take an awful lot of luck to make it to Salem. 

[AndOne]

The Transcendental Meditation levitation exercises should certainly help with his hang time.

Yep, Air Rogers.
Floating like a butterfly, stinging like a bee!

[iwumichigander]

AO - As for IWU, I think opportunites are there for new faces to break into the lineup.  I see Rosenkranz as the only 'sure' starter.  Beyond the point, I really think every spot is 'open'.  We know Chamernik is out for 4 weeks or more.  Ron Rose has a problem most coaches would like to have - talent, 2-3 deep each position skilled talent. 

And, I'm not all that sure the Titans will have, or need, a 'set lineup'.  IWU could very well have a 'best match-up lineup'.

Sean Johnson is a lock to start for the Titans.  3rd Team All-CCIW as a freshman, 12.9 ppg in CCIW play, 37% shooter from beyond the arc. 

It is very safe to say Travis Rosenkranz, Sean Johnson, and Doug Sexauer would be locks to start for the Titans if the season began today.

If season began today, agree.  My response was in context of AO's question about opportunity and based upon his list of starters at season end.  There is opportunity at #2 dependent on how 3-4-5 fills out.  Johnson a likely lock but if 3-4-5 needs a defender/slasher rather than shooter, Dwyer could emerge as starter.  Sexauer was not in AO's starters list.  I do see him as a lock for starter. 

[thundermike11]

Wheaton's roster has been posted on the website:

http://athletics.wheaton.edu/roster.asp?path=mbball

Expect the starting 5 to be the same as last year: Jahns, Panner, Raymond, Carwell, Wiele. Last season Wheaton really only played 7 or 8 guys on a consistent basis. That should change this year with the addition of a strong recruiting class, led by Jeremy Pflederer and Tim McCrary.

[Mr. Ypsi]

My sense is that this is spot on.  I could easily envision IWU making it to Salem, and fear that they won't even make the conference tourney - it's gonna be brutal.

You can "easily envision" a team completely dominated by underclassmen (maybe 80%+ of the playing time from sophomores and freshmen) making it to the Final Four??  Oh my.

Mr. Ypsi - Please clean and polish your green tinted glasses.  I do think the goals this season can be set higher; but, getting into CCIW tournament and getting a NCAA bid a little more realistic.  It would take an awful lot of luck to make it to Salem. 

See my two posts just above yours.

And it ALWAYS takes good luck to get to Salem.  (Even IWU's only title team had to have Bryan Crabtree make an off-balance shot with 7 seconds remaining to survive against a team they had earlier beaten by 25 to even reach the third round.)  No matter HOW good the team, you've still got to dodge injury, avoid a horrid-shooting night, not run into a team playing 'of out its mind', etc.

[iwumichigander]

My sense is that this is spot on.  I could easily envision IWU making it to Salem, and fear that they won't even make the conference tourney - it's gonna be brutal.

You can "easily envision" a team completely dominated by underclassmen (maybe 80%+ of the playing time from sophomores and freshmen) making it to the Final Four??  Oh my.

Mr. Ypsi - Please clean and polish your green tinted glasses.  I do think the goals this season can be set higher; but, getting into CCIW tournament and getting a NCAA bid a little more realistic.  It would take an awful lot of luck to make it to Salem. 

See my two posts just above yours.

And it ALWAYS takes good luck to get to Salem.  (Even IWU's only title team had to have Bryan Crabtree make an off-balance shot with 7 seconds remaining to survive against a team they had earlier beaten by 25 to even reach the third round.)  No matter HOW good the team, you've still got to dodge injury, avoid a horrid-shooting night, not run into a team playing 'of out its mind', etc.

Noted

[robberki]

never mind

[Gregory Sager]

Was curious regarding which teams had the most/least starters returning this year.
Reviewing the starters for each conference team in its final game last season reveals North Park and Carthage present, on paper, the most opportunities for new faces to break into the lineup. Both teams have only 2 players returning who started the final game last season. Millikin is next with three. All the remaining teams have 4 starters returning, except Wheaton and *North Central which have all 5 players who started the final game last season returning this year. 

NORTH CENTRAL:
Prince
Barringer
Drennan
*Raridon--Sr. J. Williams was injured, and was on the floor only for the opening tip
*Rogers---Sr J. Johnson started due to the fact it was senior night. Otherwise
                 Rogers would have been the starter.

NORTH PARK:
Stevens
Williams

This, of course, does not take into account any other teams besides North Central who may have been honoring seniors in their last game. Also, newcomers can always break into a starting lineup by winning a spot from an incumbent. This list just shows how things stacked up ending last season and beginning this year.

Was curious regarding which teams had the most/least starters returning this year.
Reviewing the starters for each conference team in its final game last season reveals North Park and Carthage present, on paper, the most opportunities for new faces to break into the lineup. Both teams have only 2 players returning who started the final game last season.

NORTH PARK:
Stevens
Williams

This is a misnomer, because Stephano Jones was a starter in 2006-07 and would've been a starter last season as well if he hadn't taken a year off from school.

Or, not so much of a misnomer given the last (highlighted) sentence of my original post on the subject!
At least in the case of North Central the 2 players, who would have started had it not been senior night, were actually on the team last season.

Allow me to embolden a piece of your original post as well:

Was curious regarding which teams had the most/least starters returning this year.
Reviewing the starters for each conference team in its final game last season reveals North Park and Carthage present, on paper, the most opportunities for new faces to break into the lineup.

Since that was the purpose behind your exercise, I felt that it needed to be pointed out that your premise was in error. NPU doesn't present, on paper or otherwise, three opportunities for new faces to break into the lineup. It presents two, since Stephano Jones has been looked upon as the incumbent since he announced that he was returning to school, hiatus notwithstanding. As I said, he had been the starting center before his hiatus. Hence, my post about it being a misnomer to say that NPU only has two returning starters.

It's also a little deceptive to speak of starting opportunities for NPU in that Clayton Cahill has been anointed as a starter since the end of last season. Even though he was only coming off of the bench at season's end after being promoted from the JV team in the middle of the CCIW slate, it was thoroughly obvious to everyone who watched NPU play in late February that Cahill would not only start as a sophomore but would be a key piece to the Vikings' puzzle. There's really only one starting spot that's being contested at NPU at the moment.

[AndOne]

Greg---

My purpose was solely to show how many players from each conference team that were actual starters at the end of last season, are returning this year. It was NOT to show how many starting positions were likely open on each team as of the start of this season. I tried to make that clear by directly stating "this list just shows how things stacked up ending last season and beginning this year." How would I know how many positions were open on teams I am not that familiar with? Such speculation would be pointless. Additionally, I believe that by my adding the above quote at the end of my post, an intelligent guy like you should have easily been able to determine my meaning and intent.  Accordingly, it seems ridiculous to me that you should mention Stephano Jones who was not even on the team last year, or Clayton Cahill who never started a game, played in only 5 games, and played a grand total of 41 minutes all last season. In light of these facts, your statement that includes the wording "its a little deceptive," is irresponsible. I can assure you deception was in no way, shape, or form my intent in providing the information that I did.

[Gregory Sager]

My purpose was solely to show how many players from each conference team that were actual starters at the end of last season, are returning this year. It was NOT to show how many starting positions were likely open on each team as of the start of this season. I tried to make that clear by directly stating "this list just shows how things stacked up ending last season and beginning this year." How would I know how many positions were open on teams I am not that familiar with? Such speculation would be pointless. Additionally, I believe that by my adding the above quote at the end of my post, an intelligent guy like you should have easily been able to determine my meaning and intent.  Accordingly, it seems ridiculous to me that you should mention Stephano Jones who was not even on the team last year, or Clayton Cahill who never started a game, played in only 5 games, and played a grand total of 41 minutes all last season.

Again, my response was in light of the highlighted phrase of yours in my last post, with which you tied your chart to speculation about how many spots would be open on each team. North Park has three starters returning, not two, and while it's understandable that someone who isn't looking back any further than the last game of last season wouldn't see that, it's nevertheless true that Stephano Jones is an incumbent starter and has been viewed that way all along by the NPU coaching staff. Cahill, of course, isn't an incumbent at all. I just threw him into the discussion to bring some added insight into who is going to start for the Vikes this year, a la what iwumich and Bob have been attempting to do with Illinois Wesleyan.

As for the phrase, "it's a little deceptive," it wasn't aimed at you, and I apologize if it came off that way. It was just a general reference to any onlooker who might not be aware of the fact that Cahill will be taking on a starter's role, again in the same sense of what iwumich and Bob have tried to do with regard to Illinois Wesleyan. Sorry for the confusion.

[iwumichigander]

My purpose was solely to show how many players from each conference team that were actual starters at the end of last season, are returning this year. It was NOT to show how many starting positions were likely open on each team as of the start of this season. I tried to make that clear by directly stating "this list just shows how things stacked up ending last season and beginning this year." How would I know how many positions were open on teams I am not that familiar with? Such speculation would be pointless. Additionally, I believe that by my adding the above quote at the end of my post, an intelligent guy like you should have easily been able to determine my meaning and intent.  Accordingly, it seems ridiculous to me that you should mention Stephano Jones who was not even on the team last year, or Clayton Cahill who never started a game, played in only 5 games, and played a grand total of 41 minutes all last season.

Again, my response was in light of the highlighted phrase of yours in my last post, with which you tied your chart to speculation about how many spots would be open on each team. North Park has three starters returning, not two, and while it's understandable that someone who isn't looking back any further than the last game of last season wouldn't see that, it's nevertheless true that Stephano Jones is an incumbent starter and has been viewed that way all along by the NPU coaching staff. Cahill, of course, isn't an incumbent at all. I just threw him into the discussion to bring some added insight into who is going to start for the Vikes this year, a la what iwumich and Bob have been attempting to do with Illinois Wesleyan.

As for the phrase, "it's a little deceptive," it wasn't aimed at you, and I apologize if it came off that way. It was just a general reference to any onlooker who might not be aware of the fact that Cahill will be taking on a starter's role, again in the same sense of what iwumich and Bob have tried to do with regard to Illinois Wesleyan. Sorry for the confusion.

Greg - I confess.  I missed Cahill's annointment ceremony.  And, in watching NPU in late Februaury, I was neither through nor observant; so, unfortunately not everyone realized Cahill would be a starter.  On the other hand, maybe Cahill played during the couple of minutes I missed when I went to get popcorn 

[Gregory Sager]

Greg - I confess.  I missed Cahill's annointment ceremony.

What a shame. Amid the fanfare of twenty-one musicians dressed like fancy hotel doormen, who were blowing into those long medieval trumpets with flags on them, Cahill was ushered into the gym upon the shoulders of his teammates, who were all wearing blue and gold tuxes, and he knelt on a red carpet at center court as one of the royal princesses of Sweden tapped him on the shoulder with a sword. Ya shoulda been there. It was a very inspiring ceremony, and those Swedish princesses were worth the price of admission all by themselves.


Crown Princess Victoria


Princess Madeleine

And, in watching NPU in late Februaury, I was neither through nor observant; so, unfortunately not everyone realized Cahill would be a starter.  On the other hand, maybe Cahill played during the couple of minutes I missed when I went to get popcorn 

He didn't play in that game. His varsity time was very limited last season; he played much more on JV than he did on varsity. Given his relative obscurity, of course not everyone has realized that Cahill is going to be a starter; in fact, I'd be surprised if anyone besides opposing coaches were even aware of him. That's why I'm mentioning it now.

Cahill tended to score anywhere from 15 to as many as 30 points in NPU JV games last year, and several CCIW assistant coaches came up to me after JV games and inquired about him. All indications are that he's going to be a very good player for the Vikings.