MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[scottiedawg]

I'm a MIAA follower, so if I miss some details, lay it on me.

For the CCIW teams in the Preseason Top 25:

Augustana loses (McIntosh, Thomas, Paulson)
38% of scoring
22% of rebounding
31% of minutes played

Wheaton loses (Denham)
4%
9%
9%

Elmhurst loses (Hintzsche)
10%
12%
9%

IWU loses (Gant, Nussbaum, Bloom, Bryant)
25%
36%
31%

Also, Carthage loses (Bowens, Francisjovic, Jacklin, Mikolaitis)
31%
29%
37%

On paper, Wheaton looks pretty strong.  I would've voted for them at #1.

[AndOne]

I'm a MIAA follower, so if I miss some details, lay it on me.

For the CCIW teams in the Preseason Top 25:

Augustana loses (McIntosh, Thomas, Paulson)
38% of scoring
22% of rebounding
31% of minutes played

Wheaton loses (Denham)
4%
9%
9%

Elmhurst loses (Hintzsche)
10%
12%
9%

IWU loses (Gant, Nussbaum, Bloom, Bryant)
25%
36%
31%

Also, Carthage loses (Bowens, Francisjovic, Jacklin, Mikolaitis)
31%
29%
37%

On paper, Wheaton looks pretty strong.  I would've voted for them at #1.

Scottie-----

If you want to step up and play in a tougher conference, one of the things you need to do is increase your research capabilities and understanding of the conference.
You said to "lay it on you" if you missed some details. Accordingly, can you please explain just who McIntosh, Thomas, and Paulson are? 

[petemcb]

I'm a MIAA follower, so if I miss some details, lay it on me.

For the CCIW teams in the Preseason Top 25:

Augustana loses (McIntosh, Thomas, Paulson)
38% of scoring
22% of rebounding
31% of minutes played

Wheaton loses (Denham)
4%
9%
9%

Elmhurst loses (Hintzsche)
10%
12%
9%

IWU loses (Gant, Nussbaum, Bloom, Bryant)
25%
36%
31%

Also, Carthage loses (Bowens, Francisjovic, Jacklin, Mikolaitis)
31%
29%
37%

On paper, Wheaton looks pretty strong.  I would've voted for them at #1.

Scottie-----

If you want to step up and play in a tougher conference, one of the things you need to do is increase your research capabilities and understanding of the conference.
You said to "lay it on you" if you missed some details. Accordingly, can you please explain just who McIntosh, Thomas, and Paulson are? 

I'll take a stab at it:  check the D2 Augustana Vikings from South Dakota's notes on who they've lost from last year. 8)

[Mr. Ypsi]

My sense is that this is spot on.  I could easily envision IWU making it to Salem, and fear that they won't even make the conference tourney - it's gonna be brutal.

You can "easily envision" a team completely dominated by underclassmen (maybe 80%+ of the playing time from sophomores and freshmen) making it to the Final Four??  Oh my.

Hey, I'm also a UM fan.  Two words: Fab Five.

I didn't say I expected it (and I also worried they might not even make the conference tourney), but I feel sorry for fans whose teams are such that they can't even envision a trip to Salem before the season even starts!

I took some ribbing from Greg, Q, and iwumichigan for my preseason optimism yesterday.  Now that the d3hoops preseason poll has them #18, apparently I'm not the only one who can at least 'envision' the Titans in Salem!

For comparison, IWU has been to Salem twice since the poll began.  In 2005-06 they were the preseason #1, but in 2000-01 they began in 25th place - heck, we've already got a seven slot headstart!

[AndOne]

Pete---

That a way to go. Get MIAA Scottie straightened out. I'm sure he appreciates it. +K
He was apparently just a little confused---wrong players, wrong school, wrong conference, wrong state, wrong division.     

[AndOne]

With regard to the D3Hoops preseason rankings:

1, I believe Augie rates above Wheaton due to, if nothing else, its bench strength. Also, Augie's bench is made up of upperclassmen with at least some college level experience whereas Wheaton's top subs may well be a pair of inexperienced frosh.

2. I actually like Wheaton's starting 5. But, Wiele sometimes disappears on D.

3. Just asking--Augie & Wheaton fans---Why do you think your teams rank so highly?

4. I believe EC can be right there with AC and WC if they get their PG position figured out. Macias anyone?

5. I too am a little surprised at IWU's lofty ranking. Can they live up to it. Is 4th in the conference more realistic than 18th in the country, or are both realistic?

[Mr. Ypsi]

With regard to the D3Hoops preseason rankings:

1, I believe Augie rates above Wheaton due to, if nothing else, its bench strength. Also, Augie's bench is made up of upperclassmen with at least some college level experience whereas Wheaton's top subs may well be a pair of inexperienced frosh.

2. I actually like Wheaton's starting 5. But, Wiele sometimes disappears on D.

3. Just asking--Augie & Wheaton fans---Why do you think your teams rank so highly?

4. I believe EC can be right there with AC and WC if they get their PG position figured out. Macias anyone?

5. I too am a little surprised at IWU's lofty ranking. Can they live up to it. Is 4th in the conference more realistic than 18th in the country, or are both realistic?

Well, in 2001 IWU was third in the CCIW and third in the country, so why not??

[thundermike11]

With regard to the D3Hoops preseason rankings:

1, I believe Augie rates above Wheaton due to, if nothing else, its bench strength. Also, Augie's bench is made up of upperclassmen with at least some college level experience whereas Wheaton's top subs may well be a pair of inexperienced frosh.

2. I actually like Wheaton's starting 5. But, Wiele sometimes disappears on D.

3. Just asking--Augie & Wheaton fans---Why do you think your teams rank so highly?

I think Wheaton is ranked so high because of their run through the tourney at the end of last year, coupled with the fact that the starting five (which pretty much played all of the minutes last year) is back including Mr. Raymond. The bench is always a question mark. Phil Denham is gone, Steve Young elected not to play, and so Wheaton will need some younger guys to step up to fill minutes off the bench. Fortunately, it seems that Coach Harris has more talent on his bench to work with.

Like I said earlier, I was surprised to see Wheaton so high mainly because it seemed that last year was more lightning in a bottle than anything else. Obviously, they are a good basketball team, but I'm sure they understand that they still have a lot to prove this season. The fact that they even made the tournament last year was a surprise.

As far as Wiele's D goes, I think that said disappearances were often more characteristic of the team as a whole last year than any one player.

[scottiedawg]

Pete---

That a way to go. Get MIAA Scottie straightened out. I'm sure he appreciates it. +K
He was apparently just a little confused---wrong players, wrong school, wrong conference, wrong state, wrong division.     

Hey, if I get one wrong I get them all wrong.   

Updated and probably still wrong (Swetalla, Rukavina, Waller)
18% of offense
26% of rebounding
19% of minutes played

and the new conclusion by me is, yes, Augie fully deserves the #2 ranking.

[iwumichigander]

With regard to the D3Hoops preseason rankings:

1, I believe Augie rates above Wheaton due to, if nothing else, its bench strength. Also, Augie's bench is made up of upperclassmen with at least some college level experience whereas Wheaton's top subs may well be a pair of inexperienced frosh.

2. I actually like Wheaton's starting 5. But, Wiele sometimes disappears on D.

3. Just asking--Augie & Wheaton fans---Why do you think your teams rank so highly?

4. I believe EC can be right there with AC and WC if they get their PG position figured out. Macias anyone?

5. I too am a little surprised at IWU's lofty ranking. Can they live up to it. Is 4th in the conference more realistic than 18th in the country, or are both realistic?

Well, in 2001 IWU was third in the CCIW and third in the country, so why not??

IWU - Realistic - particularly if the freshman class as good as billing; and, returning players have developed skill and strength over summer. 
Likely to be a year where 4 or more CCIW could be in/out Top 25 but beating the pulp out of each other just to stay in Top 4 CCIW.

[Mr. Ypsi]

With regard to the D3Hoops preseason rankings:

1, I believe Augie rates above Wheaton due to, if nothing else, its bench strength. Also, Augie's bench is made up of upperclassmen with at least some college level experience whereas Wheaton's top subs may well be a pair of inexperienced frosh.

2. I actually like Wheaton's starting 5. But, Wiele sometimes disappears on D.

3. Just asking--Augie & Wheaton fans---Why do you think your teams rank so highly?

4. I believe EC can be right there with AC and WC if they get their PG position figured out. Macias anyone?

5. I too am a little surprised at IWU's lofty ranking. Can they live up to it. Is 4th in the conference more realistic than 18th in the country, or are both realistic?

Well, in 2001 IWU was third in the CCIW and third in the country, so why not??

IWU - Realistic - particularly if the freshman class as good as billing; and, returning players have developed skill and strength over summer. 
Likely to be a year where 4 or more CCIW could be in/out Top 25 but beating the pulp out of each other just to stay in Top 4 CCIW.

Totally agree (like I said, I could envision IWU in Salem OR missing the CCIW tourney entirely).

It's going to be brutal - AND a helluva lotta fun.

[usee]

I thought Wheaton's defense was inconsistent last year and that was due to its lack of depth mainly at the 4 and 5. Wiele disappeared defensively because when he got in foul trouble he sat. North Central  and IWU shot high percentages in their wins over Wheaton. If Wheaton had not gotten the pool C last year they would have to be ranked behind IWU, probably out of the top 25 since Raymond likely would not have returned without the tourney run.

So I would say Wheaton's tourney run has everything to do with their ranking. I still don't understand IWU's ranking (I think its low) since they beat Wheaton 3x and they weren't flukes, IWU was a better team. But such is the life in a tough conference where Mr Ypsi's concern of "final four is possible only IF you make your conference tourney" is true of several teams in the CCIW. I suspect you will see a strong non conference run by the CCIW followed by a hatchet job in the conference slate as they cannibalize each other.

[Titan Q]

I think the D3hoops.com poll got it right - I believe all 4 teams that made the preseason Top 25 are deserving and I think the pollsters got the order right at this stage.

In my mind, Augustana is clearly the CCIW favorite.  Their #2 ranking is very justified - the Vikings are extremely talented and experienced.  Augie is a legitimate national title contender.

I think Wheaton should be the second CCIW ranked, but I do think #3 is just a tad too high.  While the Thunder return all 5 starters, remember that Wheaton had issues last year - most notably, a real lack of offensive balance.  Kent Raymond, Ben Panner, and Andy Wiele accounted for 75% of Wheaton's scoring in '07-08.  And Wheaton had almost no bench of speak of.  So, the question is, have they found help in the form of a returning player or one of the freshman?  Still, Kent Raymond is one of the best small college basketball players in the country and he does have plenty of help to carry the Thunder to huge things this year.

Elmhurst has what I feel is the best 1-2 punch in the league in Ryan Burks and Brent Ruch.  Will there be a better big guy in Division III this year than Ruch?  And they also very quietly had a really good recruiting year...Zack Boyd can play and I have heard great things about Mike McCurdy.  The Bluejays should be right in the middle of the CCIW title race, as they always are nowadays.       

IWU had a very good season last year (9-5 CCIW) with an incredibly young team.  While it is true that Darius Gant carried them in many games and was certainly the team's MVP, I think 6-7/225 Doug Sexauer is ready to step right in at the 4 at be very good.  Sean Johnson had a big freshman season, earning 3rd Team All-CCIW honors.  Point-guard Travis Rosenkranz had a solid season, despite struggling with his shot...he is the guy I think will show the most improvement as a sophomore.  Sean Dwyer brings toughness, leadership, and perimeter defense and will play a ton whether as a starter or off the bench.  And the Titans have so much other young talent - I think at least 2 of the freshmen will be in the varsity rotation.  You never know what is going to happen with a young team, but IWU has legitimate Top 25 talent and is poised for a big year if last year's freshmen make that FR to SO jump.

On my ballot, I had...

#2 Augustana
#6 Wheaton
#12 Elmhurst
#17 IWU

I was the lone UW-Platteville #1 voter.

[Titan Q]

Three of IWU's student-athletes are doing "Player Journals" for IWUHoops.com - Sean Johnson, Sean Dwyer, and Jordan Morris.  I'll have at least a couple more in the mix soon.  The guys do a nice job with these for anyone interested...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/seanjohn.htm

http://www.iwuhoops.com/jmo.htm

http://www.iwuhoops.com/dwyer09.htm

[sac]

I think thundermike and usee are deadon in the reasoning for Wheaton's high ranking.  Without that tournament run, the Thunder don't finish in the top 25 last spring.

I saw a good team in Wheaton, but nothing about them screamed pre-season top 5 in 2009.  Top 25, probably.  I do know I don't relish Hope's early December trip to King Arena, there's some payback due I suppose.