MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

GS - I missed the anointment ceremony too.

Which one of those Swedish princesses was anorexic?

Princess Madeleine. Judging by that photo and others that I have seen, she seems to have recovered quite nicely.

Have been at NP when Swedish Royalty have been on campus over the last 40 years.  Kind of different to see secret service agents on top of campus buildings and across the street on Foster Avenue.

When Prince Bertil from Sweden visited the campus in the late sixties he came unescorted.  But when the King and Queen came in the mid-eighties there were secret service agents everywhere.

Dennis left out the best (possibly semi-apocryphal) Swedish-royalty-at-NPU story of all. Back in the '80s, when the king and queen came to what was then NPC to dedicate the school's new Center for Scandinavian Studies, the Swedish consulate in Chicago hosted a pancake breakfast in Old Main at which the royal couple were the guests of honor. The consulate invited all of the Swedish teenagers who were attending Chicagoland high schools as foreign exchange students to come to North Park to attend the breakfast. One of them was Henrik Gaddefors, a native of Uppsala (Sweden's fourth-largest city) who was attending New Trier as a senior and was also playing basketball for the Trevians under the tutelage of the great Mel Sheets.

Gaddefors was assigned a seat next to Queen Silvia at the breakfast. Making small talk with him, she asked him what his plans for next year were. He replied that he might like to stay in the States and attend college, but that he really hadn't given it much thought. She said, "This looks like a nice school. Why don't you go here?"

What seventeen-year-old kid would refuse to heed the advice of his queen? Gaddefors duly enrolled at North Park and was eventually the starting small forward on the '87 national championship team, for whom his services were a vital contribution. He then went on to captain the Swedish national team and has since become one of the most successful head coaches in Sweden's premier league.

[cardinalpride]

Ahh, it feels good to be back on the boards again!  Another year, another potentially strong conference, another year of high expectations!  Lets get it on!

[Gregory Sager]

D3 hoops preseason poll is out - CCIW lands four teams in top 20:

2.  Augustana
3.  Wheaton
17.  Elmhurst
18.  Illinois Wesleyan

I'm a bit surprised to see Wheaton so high, I thought they would be more around 8-9. I also thought Elmhurst might be a bit higher. Good to see IWU get early recognition.

Not too surprised at Elmhurst with unknowns there in the guard spot.  If Elmhurst comes out strong and fixes reocurring problems from last year, I would expect them to move up quickly.  To be honest, I had no expectations for IWU to be in initial Top 25.

I figured that all four teams would make the Top 25, but I thought that Wheaton and Illinois Wesleyan would each land a bit lower than where they ended up. I guessed that Wheaton would end up somewhere in the neighborhood of 10th, and that IWU would be at the bottom edge of the Top 25.

What's really interesting about the preseason Top 25 is that all of the top eight teams are within about a 350-mile radius of Dubuque. The pollsters recognize that the Midwest and West Regions are absolutely loaded. I haven't checked it yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if the NESCAC room is screaming bloody murder.

Elmhurst's guard situation remains as big a puzzle as it was last year, if this piece on the EC website about EC's summer trip to the Low Countries is any indication. There was speculation that Pat Bacon was returning to the team this season, which would go a long way towards alleviating Mark Scherer's backcourt concerns. Yet Bacon isn't mentioned anywhere in this article. Did he accompany the team to Belgium? Is he going to end his hiatus and return to the Bluejays this season? Although the article is pretty threadbare on actual game information, it's also interesting to note that neither of the Bluejays backcourt incumbents, Matt Ryder and Chris Childs, are mentioned anywhere. Marco Macias isn't mentioned anywhere, either. The two guards who are mentioned are Dustin Bainter, who backed up Childs at the point last year, and Matt Bernier, who looked very impressive on the Elmhurst JV team last season.

I took some ribbing from Greg, Q, and iwumichigan for my preseason optimism yesterday.  Now that the d3hoops preseason poll has them #18, apparently I'm not the only one who can at least 'envision' the Titans in Salem!

Uh, Chuck, 18th in the country in the preseason poll isn't the same thing as "envisioning" a team making it to Salem.

5. I too am a little surprised at IWU's lofty ranking. Can they live up to it. Is 4th in the conference more realistic than 18th in the country, or are both realistic?

I don't think that there's anything incompatible about the two, since my guess is that the pollsters across the country are well aware that the CCIW is poised to be even stronger than usual this season. If there's a lot of across-the-board success in the league in November and December, as I suspect there will be, we might even see a fifth CCIW team receive votes in the poll. It's not unprecedented for that to happen.

I thought Wheaton's defense was inconsistent last year and that was due to its lack of depth mainly at the 4 and 5. Wiele disappeared defensively because when he got in foul trouble he sat.

It's not that unusual for Bill Harris to run a three-man rotation at the two big spots. He's done it in the past when he doesn't have a good fourth option, and he's always gotten good defensive results from it (particularly when Will Landry or Michael Fiddler was one of those three players). The bigger reason why Wheaton's interior D faltered last year was because Wiele simply wasn't a very good defender, and neither was Carwell. Whether they will improve in that area remains to be seen.

I saw a lot of Wheaton games last season, and in several of them Wiele had his lunch handed to him at the defensive end even when he wasn't in foul trouble. The game that really stands out in my mind was the WC @ NCC game in which Matt Rogers scored 30 points against Wiele, most of them on layups in which Rogers went right around Wiele as if he wasn't there. Wiele only had three fouls in that game; Rogers had four.

Don't get me wrong -- Wiele is an All-CCIW caliber player, to be sure, and he's the second-best scoring weapon at that position in the league behind only Brent Ruch. But were no excuses for many of his defensive lapses last season.

I still don't understand IWU's ranking (I think its low) since they beat Wheaton 3x and they weren't flukes, IWU was a better team.

Darius Gant carried the Titans on his back for a significant number of games (although, oddly, he was quiet in all three wins over Wheaton). Gant isn't there anymore. While IWU undeniably has a lot of talent among its underclassmen, Gant is a huge loss and it's a different team without him.

I think thundermike and usee are deadon in the reasoning for Wheaton's high ranking.  Without that tournament run, the Thunder don't finish in the top 25 last spring.

I agree with that, and I think that it's part and parcel of an overall trend over the years in which teams that make the tournament get a boost in the preseason rankings later that fall. Whether it's an excessive boost or not is a matter of debate. Perhaps we can persuade David Collinge to crunch the numbers on preseason rankings and subsequent finishes for teams that made the tourney the season before, since he's our Top 25 statistical maven.

[cardinalpride]

I think thundermike and usee are deadon in the reasoning for Wheaton's high ranking.  Without that tournament run, the Thunder don't finish in the top 25 last spring.
I saw a good team in Wheaton, but nothing about them screamed pre-season top 5 in 2009.  Top 25, probably.  I do know I don't relish Hope's early December trip to King Arena, there's some payback due I suppose.

.
Congrats to all the CCIW teams that garnered preseason top 25 rankings!  As far as Wheaton is concerned, only time will tell if their high ranking is justified.  However, their projected returning starters are about as seasoned as any team in the top 5.  All five of their returning starters have played significant varsity minutes since their freshmen seasons (4 of the 5 have started on the varsity level since the first game of their first year-Raymond, Panner, Wiele, and Carwell).  Now that's seasoning that only Lawery's can rival!   Combine that with having a player of Raymond's caliber in the lineup, and I can understand why the voters ranked them in the top three!

[Gregory Sager]

As far as Wheaton is concerned, only time will tell if their high ranking is justified.  However, their projected returning starters are about as seasoned as any team in the top 5.  All five of their returning starters have played significant varsity minutes since their freshmen seasons (4 of the 5 have started on the varsity level since their first year-Raymond, Panner, Wiele, and Carwell).  Now that's seasoning that only Lawery's can rival!

Good line!

[Titan Q]

I think thundermike and usee are deadon in the reasoning for Wheaton's high ranking.  Without that tournament run, the Thunder don't finish in the top 25 last spring.

I agree with that, and I think that it's part and parcel of an overall trend over the years in which teams that make the tournament get a boost in the preseason rankings later that fall. Whether it's an excessive boost or not is a matter of debate. Perhaps we can persuade David Collinge to crunch the numbers on preseason rankings and subsequent finishes for teams that made the tourney the season before, since he's our Top 25 statistical maven.

I don't think there is any question at all that Wheaton's ranking is based on last year's tournament run.  In the 2007-08 Week 14 poll (through the CCIW conference touranemnt), Wheaton was only in the "Others receiving votes" category, with just 7 poll points.  By getting a surprise (too most of us) Pool C bid and then beating Lawrence, Loras, and Whitworth - all on neutral courts - the Thunder picked up a whopping 317 votes by the final poll, finishing at #11 with 324 poll points.

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/08/week14.htm

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/08/final.htm


My ranking of Wheaton at #6 in the preseason is based on the assumption the Thunder supporting cast will be better in 2008-09. Andy Wiele will be a year bigger, stronger, and better (and he was very good last year)...Ben Panner should keep improving...Andrew Jahns and others too.  I also think a couple of the freshmen will help with depth, which the Thunder will need to be an elite team.

Without any real data to go on (besides the year before), the preseason poll is about making assumptions and doing a lot of guess work.  The voters, collectively, are obviously very high on what Wheaton can be become this season.

[petemcb]

I think thundermike and usee are deadon in the reasoning for Wheaton's high ranking.  Without that tournament run, the Thunder don't finish in the top 25 last spring.
I saw a good team in Wheaton, but nothing about them screamed pre-season top 5 in 2009.  Top 25, probably.  I do know I don't relish Hope's early December trip to King Arena, there's some payback due I suppose.

.
Congrats to all the CCIW teams that garnered preseason top 25 rankings!  As far as Wheaton is concerned, only time will tell if their high ranking is justified.  However, their projected returning starters are about as seasoned as any team in the top 5.  All five of their returning starters have played significant varsity minutes since their freshmen seasons (4 of the 5 have started on the varsity level since the first game of their first year-Raymond, Panner, Wiele, and Carwell).  Now that's seasoning that only Lawery's can rival!   Combine that with having a player of Raymond's caliber in the lineup, and I can understand why the voters ranked them in the top three!

CP or any Wheaton posters, did Carwell start every game last season, and am I remembering correctly that he transferred to Wheaton from Benedictine?  I'm not sure he has the same level of experience as Raymond, Panner and Wiele.

[AndOne]

Carwell did transfer to Wheaton from Benedictine prior to last season. He started 26 of Wheaton's 30 games, and averaged being on the floor for almost exactly 1/2 of the games he played in. He shot 51% and averaged 4.9 ppg and 3.3 rpg.

[mwunder]

Carthage's 2009 roster is up as of today...

http://carthage.edu/athleticspages/mens/basketball/roster.html

Adam Tolo is the transfer that K-Mark has been hinting at (I assume). 

[Titan Q]

Carthage's 2009 roster is up as of today...

http://carthage.edu/athleticspages/mens/basketball/roster.html

Adam Tolo is the transfer that K-Mark has been hinting at (I assume). 

Can't find stats for Tolo last year at South Suburban, but did find this NJCAA Division II newspaper capsule from last March...

http://www.commercial-news.com/sports/local_story_079090758.html

Tolo is not listed among the team's top 6 scorers or top 4 rebounders.

[Titan Q]

Carthage's 2009 roster is up as of today...

http://carthage.edu/athleticspages/mens/basketball/roster.html

Adam Tolo is the transfer that K-Mark has been hinting at (I assume). 

The complete Carthage freshman class is:

(G) Pace Bennett, 6-2/170 G (Rock Island - Alleman H.S.)
(G) Max Cary, 6-3/160 G (Geneva H.S.)
(G) Jordan Davis, 6-2/145 G (Carmel, IN)
(F) Chris Franz, 6-4/170 G (Mundelein H.S.)
(G) Jake Hasse, 6-3/175 G (Naperville North H.S.)
(G) Riley Jackowiak, 6-1/155 G (Granger, IN)
(C) Ross Mathison, 6-5/245 C (Scotland)
(F) Peter McBride, 6-3/175 (Prospect) - son of our esteemed poster


With all kinds of returning perimeter players and almost no big guys coming back, Carthage does not have a single freshman who is 6-6 or taller.   Their only low post player in the freshman class appears to be the 6-5/245 kid from Glasgow, Scotland.

The Red Men only have two players on the entire roster taller than 6-5:

(F) Adam Tolo, 6-6/190 (Jr.) - transfer from South Suburban College
(C) Richard Williams, 6-6/202 (Jr.) - barely played last year


Being just a couple big guys away from becoming a national power again, I thought for sure Carthage would find some size for '08-09.  On paper, it does not look like they did.

Pete, did Coach Camardella teach your son to play the 5 at all??

[Mr. Ypsi]

With the returning RedMen strength at guard, and that entering class, will we finally see the running Titan joke of the 5-guard offense played out in Kenosha?

And, Pete, you said your son really enjoyed his trip to Bloomington - what gives?

[kenoshamark]

Michael,

Been monitoring the website daily and you still beat me to it...

Well, the roster is finally up and unfortunately, not much size added to this class.  Tolo is indeed the player that I referenced and he sounds like he will help out right away.  I still think Stuart and Williams will be effective inside with a defined role.  Stuart started to see some action late last year and is a good jumper (former volleyball player).   Williams is an energy guy as noted in the profiles...so, will they dominate inside - no, but can they fit a role, sure they can.  To early to speculate if Jeffery will be part of the mix but his size will help too.   

[Titan Q]

A couple South Suburban College boxscores from last year (Tolo was a starter)...

http://sports1.trcc.edu/menshoops/06-07/Game%2030%20Box%20Score.htm

http://www.vinu.edu/cms/opencms/athletics/statistics/mbasketball/2008/24.htm


And a player profile...

http://www.southsuburbancollege.edu/stulife/sports/basketball/mens/profiles/tolo.htm

[cardinalpride]

I think thundermike and usee are deadon in the reasoning for Wheaton's high ranking.  Without that tournament run, the Thunder don't finish in the top 25 last spring.
I saw a good team in Wheaton, but nothing about them screamed pre-season top 5 in 2009.  Top 25, probably.  I do know I don't relish Hope's early December trip to King Arena, there's some payback due I suppose.

.
Congrats to all the CCIW teams that garnered preseason top 25 rankings!  As far as Wheaton is concerned, only time will tell if their high ranking is justified.  However, their projected returning starters are about as seasoned as any team in the top 5.  All five of their returning starters have played significant varsity minutes since their freshmen seasons (4 of the 5 have started on the varsity level since the first game of their first year-Raymond, Panner, Wiele, and Carwell).  Now that's seasoning that only Lawery's can rival!   Combine that with having a player of Raymond's caliber in the lineup, and I can understand why the voters ranked them in the top three!

CP or any Wheaton posters, did Carwell start every game last season, and am I remembering correctly that he transferred to Wheaton from Benedictine?  I'm not sure he has the same level of experience as Raymond, Panner and Wiele.

Pete,
As AO stated previously, Carwell did start in 26 of 30 games played last year.  Wasn't able to find out how many games Carwell started for BU as a freshman due to website complications.   I do remember him starting the NCC/BU game that year and the two teams play either late november or early december every year.  He also started the last game of the season that year against Dominican.  All indications have me to believe that Carwell has started or at the very least played in all 55 varsity games he has dressed for.  Granted Wiele and Raymond have more experience because they're seniors, but I do not believe Panner has played in as many collegiate games as Carwell.