MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

By the way, is Coach Giovanine not the happiest guy in the CCIW today (with the preseason poll results)?  Here he is with a group of seniors who have never finished out of 1st place in the conference...and a team rated #2 nationally in the preseason.  And if there is one concern with that type of team, of course, it is that maybe they'll be a little over-confident or whatever....and then they get picked 2nd in the conference!

How long do you think it took for the poll results to be mentioned at practice today?

When IS Coach Giovanine happy? Or, possibly a better question might be when does he ever appear to be happy?

Great coach. But, Mr. Happy--NOT!

[AndOne]

With regard to the D3Hoops preseason rankings for Augie and Wheaton, and their being reversed in the CCIW coach's poll, I believe Wheaton's being picked above Augie by the coaches is due to 4 primary factors, all of which are fairly easy to discern.
1. Kent Raymond
2. Wheaton's strong showing in last year's tourney
3. 5 starters returning
4. Other coaches respect for Coach Harris

However, I also think Wheaton has the highest potential NOT to live up to their lofty preseason billing. Maybe its just because of the Wheaton games I've observed over the last few years, primarily against North Central. Why? Depending mainly on the defensive makeup of your team, I think you need only to make a decision to let Raymond get his, and shut down the other players, or try to shut Raymond down and let the supporting cast get what they will. Which plan to go with often becomes evident after a few minutes of action. Admittedly, if all players are "on" on any given night, you're probably going down, but thats true of most teams and games. Also, I feel there is more of a drop off after Wheaton's superstar to their 2nd best player than there is with, say, Augie, and Elmhurst. The other potential liabilities I feel Wheaton has are their defense, especially on nights where Wiele disappears, and their very short bench, although it looks to be improved this year. This is certainly NOT to say Wheaton is not a very good team. Having a likely 1st team All-American makes them good with no further reasons needed. However, I just feel there is more of a chance Wheaton won't live up to its preseason hype, than there is that Augie and Elmhurst won't live up to theirs. Now, for all you Wheaton fans and others who think I'm nuts, please tell me why.

[Gregory Sager]

Here in So Cal it hit 80 today, so it still feels a bit like summer and it's hard to get used to the idea that basketball is just around the corner.

Be careful with those La-La-Land weather updates this winter if you want to keep your karma higher than your post count, April.

By the way, is Coach Giovanine not the happiest guy in the CCIW today (with the preseason poll results)?  Here he is with a group of seniors who have never finished out of 1st place in the conference...and a team rated #2 nationally in the preseason.  And if there is one concern with that type of team, of course, it is that maybe they'll be a little over-confident or whatever....and then they get picked 2nd in the conference!

I was thinking the same thing, Bob. Giovanine has just been handed something every coach dreams of having: A first-rate motivational tool that will work all season long on his players. If there's anything in the world that could make him smile, it's this CCIW preseason poll result.

With regard to the D3Hoops preseason rankings for Augie and Wheaton, and their being reversed in the CCIW coach's poll, I believe Wheaton's being picked above Augie by the coaches is due to 4 primary factors, all of which are fairly easy to discern.
1. Kent Raymond
2. Wheaton's strong showing in last year's tourney
3. 5 starters returning
4. Other coaches respect for Coach Harris

I agree, but I would add a fifth: Andy Wiele. As strong as the CCIW appears to be this coming season, it's not exactly loaded with prime-time centers, Brent Ruch notwithstanding -- especially prime-time centers with the size and inside/outside game of an Andy Wiele.

However, I also think Wheaton has the highest potential NOT to live up to their lofty preseason billing. Maybe its just because of the Wheaton games I've observed over the last few years, primarily against North Central. Why? Depending mainly on the defensive makeup of your team, I think you need only to make a decision to let Raymond get his, and shut down the other players, or try to shut Raymond down and let the supporting cast get what they will. Which plan to go with often becomes evident after a few minutes of action. Admittedly, if all players are "on" on any given night, you're probably going down, but thats true of most teams and games.

I don't think you're nuts, but I do think that perhaps NCC's bizarre dominance of Wheaton in recent years has somewhat distorted your perception of the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance. F'rinstance, the either-deny-Raymond-or-deny-everyone-else tactic. That's a great tactic in theory, but it's extremely hard to execute in a game situation (unless your mascot is a small crimson songbird, I guess ). NPU denied everyone else in 2006-07 (except for John Mohan in the second contest) but still lost to Wheaton twice because the Vikings let Raymond run wild for 21 and 28 in the two games. Last season Paul Brenegan tried the reverse tactic; NPU focused upon stopping Raymond, and did a pretty good job of it (29 points total for the two games, including 9-22 from the field and 1-8 from downtown). However, Wheaton won both games because Raymond had teammates who stepped up (Panner and Jahns in the first contest, Panner and Wiele in the second).

I just think that the whole either/or tactic regarding Raymond and Wheaton is a lot easier said than done ... that is, unless you're Todd Raridon and you've got a voodoo doll of Bill Harris locked away in your office desk.

The other potential liabilities I feel Wheaton has are their defense, especially on nights where Wiele disappears

I think that Wheaton's perimeter D was actually pretty strong last season. It was Wheaton's interior D that was anywhere from fair-to-atrocious on a given night. I did find it telling that in the preseason preview bgbully40 linked Harris went out of his way to point out that Wiele's help defense has improved. Is he asserting that Wiele has cleaned up one of his defensive liabilities, or is he subtly pointing out that Wiele's on-ball defense still leaves something to be desired?

and their very short bench, although it looks to be improved this year.

As I've said in the past, a short bench is much less of a concern for Wheaton than for anyone else, because Bill Harris never spreads out his minutes any more than he absolutely has to. There's a reason why Wheaton is almost always the best-conditioned team in the league; it's because he believes in maximizing the minutes of his top six players, and if you're player #7 or #8 you don't have the luxury of knowing you're guaranteed to get double-digit minutes the way that you would on another team.

This is certainly NOT to say Wheaton is not a very good team. Having a likely 1st team All-American makes them good with no further reasons needed. However, I just feel there is more of a chance Wheaton won't live up to its preseason hype, than there is that Augie and Elmhurst won't live up to theirs. Now, for all you Wheaton fans and others who think I'm nuts, please tell me why.

I'm not sold on the idea of Wheaton being the team to beat rather than Augie, either, but I'm also not sold on the idea that Wheaton is the league's most likely bust. I dunno ... even with a year of varsity under their collective belt I still have my doubts about that melange of players in the Elmhurst backcourt mix.

[Titan Q]

With regard to the D3Hoops preseason rankings for Augie and Wheaton, and their being reversed in the CCIW coach's poll, I believe Wheaton's being picked above Augie by the coaches is due to 4 primary factors, all of which are fairly easy to discern.
1. Kent Raymond
2. Wheaton's strong showing in last year's tourney
3. 5 starters returning
4. Other coaches respect for Coach Harris

I agree, but regarding #4, consider:

* In 9 years as a CCIW head coach, Grey Giovanine has won 4 CCIW championships.  Including the last 3, outright.
* In 17 seasons as a CCIW head coach, Bill Harris has won 2 CCIW championships.  The last was now 10 seasons ago ('98-99).

So if you are talking about "respect" as it applies to voting in the preseason poll,  I don't see how Harris wins that battle over Coach G.

Now, if you are talking about good old fashioned popularity and likeability and how that might impact the voting, I will listen to that argument.  I mean, clearly, if Bill Harris were allowed by Wheaton rules to have a beer, he would be right at the top of my "CCIW coaches to have a beer with ranking"...behind only Bosko.  I sense there is a big difference in Q Rating between the Augie and Wheaton skippers.

[usee]

Well, if CCIW coaches know more than the pollsters we'll take it. After all, last saturday #7 North Central beat #4 Wheaton in football. CCIW coaches voted North Central #1 in the conference! Let's hope this excellent knowledge by CCIW coaches translates!

[AndOne]

Greg---

I'm not saying Wheaton will be a "bust" this season. They will be very successful. I just don't think they are #3nationally, or #1 in the CCIW. And, I must admit, there is as much chance that I'm wrong on this as that I'm right. Any team with a player the caliber of Kent Raymond is always going to be in the game.

TQ---

Yes, the Q rating thing is more of what I meant.

Usee--

I understand your enthusiasm for the CCIW basketball coaches having as much insight as the football coaches evidently did. Good luck.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

There is not much love for North Park in either the men's or women's poll.

didn't npu beat both carthage and north central twice last year?

just asking

dgp

[April]

This is terrible to say, but I feel kind like I have gotten used to Wheaton underwhelming expectations and not living up to potential. I'm not sure I would have picked us first in the conference either, much less third in the nation. Last year was like a dream come true for me (though it would have been dreamier to be able to go) I am going to hold my breath this year... and I guess we'll see how it goes!

Welcome back to who Art Kimball once called "The Belle of the CCIW."

Oh Art, he's quite the charmer, even if that statement was obviously make because he was the frequent benefactor of my cooking making sprees. How is Art doing these days? Also, has the married life calmed down the Titan Q stalker scene at all?

Here in So Cal it hit 80 today, so it still feels a bit like summer and it's hard to get used to the idea that basketball is just around the corner.

Be careful with those La-La-Land weather updates this winter if you want to keep your karma higher than your post count, April.

At the ripe old age of 27, I am officially too old to care about my karma now, though I must admit back in the day I did kinda care about it.

Now excuse me while I go off to the beach which is less than 15 mins from my house.  8) 

[Titan Q]

As voted by the players, IWU's 2008-09 captains are:

Brett Chamernik (Sr)
Sean Dwyer (Jr)

[Titan Q]

How is Art doing these days?

Art has been dealing with a few health issues the last couple years, but nothing a stiff Manhattan (Art's drink of choice) can't cure.

He's had his good days and bad for a while now, but he's doing pretty well.

[Titan Q]

Also, has the married life calmed down the Titan Q stalker scene at all?

I was just a way to get to Art - the old get close to the friend trick.  Everything calmed down when the Hall of Famer hung it up.

[pgkevin]

As reported over in the NAC room, North Park fell in a scrimmage to Benedictine by 17.  Don't have any details, sure some other posters will contribute those, just wanted to finally break news in an arena, and even though it was already reported in the Midwest Region section of the message boards, I'm claiming the breaking in the CCIW chat

[petemcb]

Carthage scrimmaged at Aurora last night.  They came out on top in all three twenty minute periods.  Highlights included freshman Max Cary who must have had at least 15 points, maybe more, and every one of them was an exciting play.  He looked very comfortable from beyond the arc, and equally comfortable slashing to the basket.  He is going to be a very exciting player for CCIW fans to watch.  The other particularly noteworthy performance was from Tolo, Carthage's transfer big man.  He had at least 15 boards in the first two twenty minute periods.  Looks like Carthage has more to work with this year.

[AndOne]

As reported over in the NAC room, North Park fell in a scrimmage to Benedictine by 17.  Don't have any details, sure some other posters will contribute those, just wanted to finally break news in an arena, and even though it was already reported in the Midwest Region section of the message boards, I'm claiming the breaking in the CCIW chat

Very surprising, at least to me.

Did all of North Park's top players participate?

[AndOne]

Carthage scrimmaged at Aurora last night.  They came out on top in all three twenty minute periods.  Highlights included freshman Max Cary who must have had at least 15 points, maybe more, and every one of them was an exciting play.  He looked very comfortable from beyond the arc, and equally comfortable slashing to the basket.  He is going to be a very exciting player for CCIW fans to watch.  The other particularly noteworthy performance was from Tolo, Carthage's transfer big man.  He had at least 15 boards in the first two twenty minute periods.  Looks like Carthage has more to work with this year.

I liked Cary last year. However, with Steve D. and Fendley, how much do our Carthage fans feel that he will play this season? Will CC, at times, go with a 3 guard lineup? If so, who besides Max are the prime candidates to play along with Steve and Sean?