MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[almcguirejr]

Hey, have I told everyone I was on the Outerbanks yesterday.....

That's good.

[HopeConvert]

Congratulations to Steve Cramer for being named 4th team All-American. A well-deserved honor (although I couldn't help but notice Drury was third team, and while it is obviously a season honor, I don't think there is much doubt about who was the better player on the floor that night).

Merely curious... were you there? IIRC you weren't....


As we are currently discussing this on the CCIW board, and I know you guys had a lot of nice things to say about him after the CCIW-MIAA challenge, I'm curious if any of the MIAA guys were surprised not to see Kent Raymond on any of the AA teams?

I never saw a moor,
I never saw the sea;
Yet know I how the heather looks,
And what a wave must be.

No, I wasn't there. Fair enough criticism. I'm going off what was reported to me (and listening to the game on the radio).

I thought Raymond would be a fighter for the AA team. I was quite surprised not to see him on there. On the other hand, I only saw a handful of people who were.

Sac: you could have been golfing up here. North Carolina - bah!

[diehardfan]

How can I argue with that? That's a quote from one of her few poems that I actually like.

But seriously, you have to admit the game reports you heard were a little biased. Biases are a perfectly natural and normal part of fandom, but they are still biases. I do think that Crammer played better in that game, but the difference wasn't quite as significant as it sounded while reading your post.

[HopeConvert]

How can I argue with that? That's a quote from one of her few poems that I actually like.

But seriously, you have to admit the game reports you heard were a little biased. Biases are a perfectly natural and normal part of fandom, but they are still biases. I do think that Crammer played better in that game, but the difference wasn't quite as significant as it sounded while reading your post.

Of course I'll admit they were biased. They could still be right, but I have no judgment of my own to offer. Those who were there will certainly be better judges.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I think it's probably a pretty tough thing to judge after one game of Drury vs Cramer.  Sure, statistically Cramer was superior that night, but then maybe the Hope defense was also that much better than Carrolls.  I have no problem (other than my Hope bias) with Cramer being a 4th teamer and Drury being 3rd team.

I do think it was a shock that Kent Raymond did not make it, although I do understand Pat's assertion that in a close race/tie, the award always goes to the upperclassman. 

[sac]

Cramers on the 4th team because he wasn't asked or didn't feel the need to carry the load untill the post-season.  Expand his season numbers out on a per minute basis and his numbers are pretty comparable with the other AA's.  Hard to put up big numbers when you play 25 minutes or less in over half your conference games.

Drury was a very good player, Hope did a fantastic job keeping him under control, from what I saw the kid could score 17 just stepping on the court.  I have no problem with him being ahead of Cramer.  Drury reminded me an awful lot of Griffen at Calvin in his ability to score but with slightly better overall skills and quickness.  Like Griffen Hope's D wouldn't let Drury get comfortable with his setup and shot.

[ziggy]

Cramers on the 4th team because he wasn't asked or didn't feel the need to carry the load untill the post-season.  Expand his season numbers out on a per minute basis and his numbers are pretty comparable with the other AA's.  Hard to put up big numbers when you play 25 minutes or less in over half your conference games.

Drury was a very good player, Hope did a fantastic job keeping him under control, from what I saw the kid could score 17 just stepping on the court.  I have no problem with him being ahead of Cramer.  Drury reminded me an awful lot of Griffen at Calvin in his ability to score but with slightly better overall skills and quickness.  Like Griffen Hope's D wouldn't let Drury get comfortable with his setup and shot.

KnightSlappy has a stat per minute analysis.  Perhaps he could make public.  GriffIn also comes out very favorable on a per minute basis.

[diehardfan]

Belated news flash!!!
The real reason Hope lost the Elite Eight revealed. Hilltop (a local Point Bar) served condiments like this:



and Hope fans ate and drank there. Shameful, I tell ya. 

[diehardfan]

And here's another. Cramer winning the Tipoff at the Sweet Sixteen:



http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n13/godspoetry/sectionaltipoff.jpg

[Gregory Sager]

Hey, have I told everyone I was on the Outerbanks yesterday.....

"Outer Banks" is two separate words.

When you first mentioned Cape Haterus, Scott, I simply thought that you'd picked some less famous and less geographically significant headland on the North Carolina coast than Cape Hatteras to take your vacation. In fact, I was really hoping that that was the case, and that you'd inadvertently stumbled upon the obscure location where they manufacture that famous Haterade stuff that I hear so much about at basketball games.

[Pat Coleman]

OOF

[almcguirejr]

Ric Wesley gives credit to Grey Giovanine for some of his success.  Wesley was also an assistant to Johnny Orr for 14 years



http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/032007/localsports_20070320046.shtml

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Cramers on the 4th team because he wasn't asked or didn't feel the need to carry the load untill the post-season.  Expand his season numbers out on a per minute basis and his numbers are pretty comparable with the other AA's.  Hard to put up big numbers when you play 25 minutes or less in over half your conference games.

Drury was a very good player, Hope did a fantastic job keeping him under control, from what I saw the kid could score 17 just stepping on the court.  I have no problem with him being ahead of Cramer.  Drury reminded me an awful lot of Griffen at Calvin in his ability to score but with slightly better overall skills and quickness.  Like Griffen Hope's D wouldn't let Drury get comfortable with his setup and shot.

KnightSlappy has a stat per minute analysis.  Perhaps he could make public.  GriffIn also comes out very favorable on a per minute basis.

Here's the scoring part anyway (all games)

Player	Avg/G	Min/G	Avg/40 min
Stephen Cramer	17	26.3	25.9
Derek Griffin	14.8	25.7	23
Isaac Smith	20.9	36.5	22.9
Caleb Veldhouse	15	27.5	21.8
Andrew Holms	11	20.2	21.8
Zak Silas	14.4	26.7	21.6
Tony Benford	18	33.4	21.6
Tyler Wolfe	7.9	15.5	20.4
Mat Kellogg	11.8	23.3	20.3
Derek Van Solkema	11.2	23.9	18.7
Pat Clancy	12.4	27.1	18.3
Andy Sierminski	10.1	22.4	18
Brandon Way	12.5	29.2	17.1
Marcus Vanderheide	9.5	22.4	17
Jesse Reimink	8.7	21.1	16.5
Jim Cash	8.8	21.4	16.4
Lamar Cardenas	9.2	22.9	16.1
Drew Yancy	9.4	23.4	16.1
Josh Meckes	10	24.9	16.1
Jeff Cooper	11.7	29.2	16
Maurice Brookens	12.7	32.2	15.8
Venias Jordan	8.4	22	15.3
Ryan DeHaan	8.8	24	14.7
Glen Alfieri	7.3	20	14.6
Matt Brown	7.4	20.8	14.2
Ryan Gallus	11.4	32.2	14.2
Tyler Worst	9.9	28.8	13.8
Corey Smith	7.2	22.3	12.9
Dustin Smith	7.4	25.7	11.5
Andy Kubish	8.9	32.3	11

[KnightSlappy]

I dont have the stats with me because I am out of town, but I believe GriffIn dominated Cramer in the Reb/40 min category.

[oldknight]

FDF posted the points scored per 40 minutes for a number of key MIAA players of this past season. A couple of nonstarters on that list were Wolfe (20.4) and Siermanski (18). I checked on Calvin's top two freshman of the last year and they compare quite favorably based on a full 40 minute game. Their stats show the following:


Player                    Avg/G                     Min/G                  Avg/40 min
                                     
John Mantel               7.2                        15.3                    18.9

Matt Veltema             6.3                        15.4                    16.4