MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[GoKnights68]

Thanks again for the excellent work Sac.  I tend to agree with you on the early 90's Hope, and Calvin teams.  There were some epic battles in 90, 91, 92 and 93.  I have always thought that it helped the MIAA considerably that Calvin hosted the D3 championship games in the 80s.  The coaches, and players really were able to see what it took to be a championship caliber team.   The talent that both teams had was exceptional.  There have been some great Calvin Hope games over the years, but that 91 NCAA game was incredible.     As I recall it the fans got a bit overzealous during some of those games, and the Presidents of the schools issued a notice if fans couldn't control themselves the rivalry would be ended.

Really?  How so?  That's awesome!   I bet I would be one of those fans if I was watching Calvin games back then.

[realist]

gk68:  I don't know you, but I am not so sure you would have been one of those fans, unless you were a student in the early 90's.  The emotional pitch or fever was up several levels from current students.  Calvin's student section then was much more active than at anytime the last 10 years.  The problem at the time was students (for the most part) crossed several lines to the point of taunting, harassing, and physically intimidating fellow spectators, and players on the floor.   A game or two was delayed to get the crowds back under control.  I recall hearing of fans being pushed into snow banks etc., and just not typical or decent behavior by fans of either school.  Obviously it (the negative behavior) was serious enough that the rspective Presidents felt it needed to be stopped, and after that the conduct improved.  We in the MIAA get spoiled because we generally see decent sportmanship from the schools, players, and fellow fans.  As a Calvin supporter the treatment I have received from Hope fans has generally been fairly decent, and  I have always tried to return that graciousness.   When it stops being fun to attend the games (win or lose) it is best to stop going.

[GoKnights68]

gk68:  I don't know you, but I am not so sure you would have been one of those fans, unless you were a student in the early 90's.  The emotional pitch or fever was up several levels from current students.  Calvin's student section then was much more active than at anytime the last 10 years.  The problem at the time was students (for the most part) crossed several lines to the point of taunting, harassing, and physically intimidating fellow spectators, and players on the floor.   A game or two was delayed to get the crowds back under control.  I recall hearing of fans being pushed into snow banks etc., and just not typical or decent behavior by fans of either school.  Obviously it (the negative behavior) was serious enough that the rspective Presidents felt it needed to be stopped, and after that the conduct improved.  We in the MIAA get spoiled because we generally see decent sportmanship from the schools, players, and fellow fans.  As a Calvin supporter the treatment I have received from Hope fans has generally been fairly decent, and  I have always tried to return that graciousness.   When it stops being fun to attend the games (win or lose) it is best to stop going.

Wow, I didn't know it was even more hyped back then than it is now in terms of fan behavior.    I can't imagine having fans being pushed into snow-banks over a game.  I didn't mean that that is "awesome"  that the presidents had to step in because fans were acting unsportsmanlike.  I thought fans were just going crazy, but it sounds like it got pretty ugly.  Glad they fixed that situation up, yet the games are still loud.

[realist]

I sort of assummed you meant the President's reaction was awesome, but glad you verified it.  Yes, if you look at the Calvin attendance numbers you see that period had a fantastic following.  Student attendance was much higher during that period, and it wasn't just Hope/Calvin that sold out.  I don't recall hearing of anyone physically hurt, but the behavior did get to  the level it needed to be addressed.   When the actions of fans cause play to be stopped I think most of us on this board would say the line has been crossed into bad behavior.  What I remember being impressive was it only took the one message threatening to end Calvin/Hope games for the fans to return to decent behavior. 

[GoKnights68]

I sort of assummed you meant the President's reaction was awesome, but glad you verified it.  Yes, if you look at the Calvin attendance numbers you see that period had a fantastic following.  Student attendance was much higher during that period, and it wasn't just Hope/Calvin that sold out.  I don't recall hearing of anyone physically hurt, but the behavior did get to  the level it needed to be addressed.   When the actions of fans cause play to be stopped I think most of us on this board would say the line has been crossed into bad behavior.  What I remember being impressive was it only took the one message threatening to end Calvin/Hope games for the fans to return to decent behavior. 

I don't know about Hope, but sadly today there are a large group of Calvin people (kids, students, and adults) that only attend the Calvin/Hope games each year, and maybe hop on the bandwagon again for the tourneys.  It's unfortunate how many people do so.

[NW Hope Fan]

Does anyone remember the Calvin fan that would "meow" the "Meow Mix" song during free throws during the mid to late nineties? 

Brilliant!!! I loved that guy!

Now those were the kind of things that made the Hope/Calvin games ROCK!

[devossed]

Does anyone remember the Calvin fan that would "meow" the "Meow Mix" song during free throws during the mid to late nineties? 

Brilliant!!! I loved that guy!

Now those were the kind of things that made the Hope/Calvin games ROCK!

That and: "HOL-STEGE" (from the orange after a 25-foot swish)

*or*

"HOL-STEGE" (from the maroon after a 25-foot airball)...

[GoKnights68]

I know it's pretty early, but does anyone have any idea who you think the coaches will vote for the MIAA pre-season favorite at the coaches meeting in October.  I know they tend to favor the previous regular champs, but I think Hope and Calvin are going to have pretty similar talent levels imo.  Any idea who will be predicted third?

I'm pretty sure that in the last 4 years, the favorite has not won if my memory serves me correct.

[sac]

Given what Hope lost and what Calvin lost and returning players I would think Calvin will get the slight nod over Hope.   Hope's starting 5 should be solid, but they'll be relying on an awful lot of youngsters or last years end of the bench for quality minutes.

With that said, Hope could just as easily be tipped favorites.  I definately agree there won't be much of a difference in talent.  Overall experience is on Calvin's side for a change after about 2 years of having very young teams.  Which sounds strange since Hope could have 7 Seniors.

I do believe both will start the year somewhere in Pats top 25.


I think Albion gets the 3 spot, TSU and Adrian a closer 4 or 5.  Kzoo and Olivet should stay clear of Alma, who should be a rock solid mega "put all your money on black" lock for 8th.

I do believe the league struggles again outside the conference, but hopefully there will be an upswing in overall performance.

[devossed]

Anybody remember the pages where the discussion about this year's RDV Sportsplex tourney can be found?

I'm most curious about which teams will be there and can't remember when we had the discussion.

[devossed]

never mind...found on pg. 753-754.

[GoKnights68]

Given what Hope lost and what Calvin lost and returning players I would think Calvin will get the slight nod over Hope.   Hope's starting 5 should be solid, but they'll be relying on an awful lot of youngsters or last years end of the bench for quality minutes.

With that said, Hope could just as easily be tipped favorites.  I definately agree there won't be much of a difference in talent.  Overall experience is on Calvin's side for a change after about 2 years of having very young teams.  Which sounds strange since Hope could have 7 Seniors.

I do believe both will start the year somewhere in Pats top 25.


I think Albion gets the 3 spot, TSU and Adrian a closer 4 or 5.  Kzoo and Olivet should stay clear of Alma, who should be a rock solid mega "put all your money on black" lock for 8th.

I do believe the league struggles again outside the conference, but hopefully there will be an upswing in overall performance.

Sounds about what I was thinking also with Calvin and Hope.  The main concern I have with Calvin going into the season is if there can be enough depth at the center position behind Mantel.  I know JV had a couple of very tall guys last season, so we'll see how well they fit in.

[KnightSlappy]

Mantel will be an absolute horse for three more years.  He played very strong in the final game vs. Hope at Aurora.

[oldknight]

Check out http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2948245 for another article on The Rivalry. It's a nice article but I do have a couple of objections. First, I wouldn't exactly say that the CRC and the RCA are of "different faiths." They're different denominations but hardly different faiths. Second, Hope is not 4-0 against Calvin in conference tourney finals. I have a distinctly pleasant memory of the Knights defeating the Dutch this past winter in the conference final at DeVos to get the automatic NCAA bid.

[sac]

Nice find Oldknight.  Overall, pretty good.  Everyone from Hope must have been on vacation.......there's a distinct lack of a Hope point of view of the rivalry.