MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[GoKnights68]

Recent history would reference the last 5 years specifically when Hope was first in attendance each year, IWU second, and Calvin third. Once again, that's not a knock at Calvin they have a long history of being a top 3 team in attendance. However, since the last national championship run (and during my years at Hope so the time when I was able to more closely observe) it seems that as a whole Calvin students (obviously there are exceptions) really only get up for Hope, Homecoming, and maybe Albion.

Like I've also said with adults, there are a group of loyal students who go to just about every home game and cheer loud, but there is also a good amount that as you said, just go to a few games.

Anyways, if you didn't notice last year, there was no such thing as knight-club since there was no knight-club t-shirts passed out to students(although upperclassmen just wore their previous years' shirts to the games).  Thankfully there will be Knight-Club shirts this season I hear.  It might be even be a new color, differing from the usual yellow shirts from previous! Hopefully this could can help more student participation this season.  It sure can't hurt!

[NW Hope Fan]

Anything free to West Michigan folks and you'll have them there in droves! 

[KnightSlappy]

Meaning what?  Fair weather Calvin fans?   

So Calvin's numbers spike when the team is winning and falter when they struggle.  Compare that to Hope's and IWU's numbers that remain relatively consistent across the graph.  If I'm a player, coach, etc., I'd appreciate the fans support through the lean years, too, not just when everything's rosy.

Very interesting that the Hope numbers don't spike during and after national championship years.....

I don't think third in the nation suggests a lack of fan support for the Knights.  I would say that when a team wins a national championship they gain more community interest from those that are not necessarily Calvin fans but just want to check them out.

That being said.  The Knights could use a lot more active student support.  I think the student attendance numbers are pretty good, a lot just don't participate in the cheering until the big games.

[Civic Minded]

Meaning what?  Fair weather Calvin fans?   

So Calvin's numbers spike when the team is winning and falter when they struggle.  Compare that to Hope's and IWU's numbers that remain relatively consistent across the graph.  If I'm a player, coach, etc., I'd appreciate the fans support through the lean years, too, not just when everything's rosy.

Very interesting that the Hope numbers don't spike during and after national championship years.....

I don't think third in the nation suggests a lack of fan support for the Knights.  I would say that when a team wins a national championship they gain more community interest from those that are not necessarily Calvin fans but just want to check them out.

That being said.  The Knights could use a lot more active student support.  I think the student attendance numbers are pretty good, a lot just don't participate in the cheering until the big games.

It's hard for numbers to spike when you're consistantly at capacity.   

As a casual observer, I would disagree about your student attendance numbers being pretty good other than at Hope games.  That's not what I've seen, but as I said, that's just a casual observation.

[Erm Schmigget]

Meaning what?  Fair weather Calvin fans?   

So Calvin's numbers spike when the team is winning and falter when they struggle.  Compare that to Hope's and IWU's numbers that remain relatively consistent across the graph.  If I'm a player, coach, etc., I'd appreciate the fans support through the lean years, too, not just when everything's rosy.

Very interesting that the Hope numbers don't spike during and after national championship years.....

I don't think third in the nation suggests a lack of fan support for the Knights.  I would say that when a team wins a national championship they gain more community interest from those that are not necessarily Calvin fans but just want to check them out.

That being said.  The Knights could use a lot more active student support.  I think the student attendance numbers are pretty good, a lot just don't participate in the cheering until the big games.

Read the whole post, then make your comments.  To quote myself, "Even so, Calvin's fan support is always great for a DIII team."  What about that suggests a lack of fan support?  One thing that you don't argue with (to your credit) is that Calvin's fan support is inconsistent, whereas, Hope's and IWU's support is comparatively consistent (actually trending upward).

I'm not trying to start a "our fans are better than your fans" p***ing match.  No one wins that.  All three schools have great fans.  It's just that at Calvin, the potential is so much greater than the actual turnout.  Far more students, faculty, alumni, parents, etc. to draw from.  I think more consistency in fan support could be a boost for the team, especially in the "down" years.

Remember, this is coming from a Hope fan.  It should be taken as encouragement to build more consistency in fan support...not a knock on Calvin's fan support in general.

[realist]

ES:  I think you make a valid point.  What really counts is what percentage of students or the potential fan base attend games on a regular basis.  Over the years it seems to me Calvin's base has not been as b-ball, and probably sports in general oriented as Hope's base has been.  Having spoken with coaches, and AD's etc. at Calvin I am sure they would like to see more students in the seats, but obviously it isn't a 'big deal" to most students.  I have meet many Calvin alums over the years that admit they never  have attended any games.  Sports is just one of the reasons why a person might attend a given school, and  I also think we here on this board may weight it more heavily in our opinions than the "typical" person does.

[Erm Schmigget]

realist-

I'm pickin' up what yer puttin' down.  I'm smellin' what yer steppin' in.

When I was a student, I couldn't be counted on to go to many games.  But before and after--as a community member and alum--I might be considered an ardent supporter.  And I'm just one of hundreds that make it to nearly every home game, and away games when I can.  That's the fan base that I think can give the kind of consistency many of us are referring to.  The kind of fan to which goknights68 refers.  You'll find that outside of the student body.

That being said, it is still the student support at Hope/Calvin games that makes them what they are, imho.  That's impressive when you consider the demands on students' time.

[Erm Schmigget]

That being said.  The Knights could use a lot more active student support.  I think the student attendance numbers are pretty good, a lot just don't participate in the cheering until the big games.

KS-  Good point here, too.  I also see the same at Hope games.  I sometimes wish the students (and really, the whole crowd) would "get into" the games more often.  Regardless of the team's rankings at the time.  But I'm still sure our physical presence is appreciated even when we don't exude a whole lot of spirit.

[sac]

Allow me to interject my personal opine.

I've always found Calvin's student support to be a bit fickle, and a bit of a mystery really.  Perhaps its because I saw some of Calvin's best teams when they routinely filled the Fieldhouse in the early 90's and have that to base my perceptions of what a Calvin crowd should be like.   In recent years I've found student support to be below what I think should be par.  I can think of 2 recent MIAA tournament games played in Calvin's gym that felt and sounded like Hope home games.  Maybe its because "Let's Go Hope" is an audibly louder cheer than "Let's Go Calvin", at least it sounds that way.  Maybe another subject for another day.

But when Calvin does get the great support, its as tough a place as any in Division 3.  I find the twists and turnings of this subject kind of funny when 99.9% of D3 would kill to have the yearly support that Hope and Calvin receive.

I'm sure Calvin will have little trouble saying goodbye to their Fieldhouse with full crowds most nights if indeed they limit capacity to 2000.

[GoKnights68]

Allow me to interject my personal opine.

I've always found Calvin's student support to be a bit fickle, and a bit of a mystery really.  Perhaps its because I saw some of Calvin's best teams when they routinely filled the Fieldhouse in the early 90's and have that to base my perceptions of what a Calvin crowd should be like.   In recent years I've found student support to be below what I think should be par.  I can think of 2 recent MIAA tournament games played in Calvin's gym that felt and sounded like Hope home games.  Maybe its because "Let's Go Hope" is an audibly louder cheer than "Let's Go Calvin", at least it sounds that way.  Maybe another subject for another day.

But when Calvin does get the great support, its as tough a place as any in Division 3.  I find the twists and turnings of this subject kind of funny when 99.9% of D3 would kill to have the yearly support that Hope and Calvin receive.

I'm sure Calvin will have little trouble saying goodbye to their Fieldhouse with full crowds most nights if indeed they limit capacity to 2000.

Respectfully disagree for your first parargraph.


Anyways, one of my favorite Calvin fan moments was in the 2005 NCAA tournament round 2 played at Aurora against Aurora.  Aurora was on spring break, so they only had about 25% of their own gym filled.  Calvin had about 75% of the gym filled about 25 minutes before the game and chanting "Lets go Calvin".  I will never forget the look on Aurora players and fans, as they were stunned at all the fan-support from the visiting team from another state.  The crowd really played a factor for the knights in that victory.

[northb]

Allow me to interject my personal opine.

I've always found Calvin's student support to be a bit fickle, and a bit of a mystery really.  Perhaps its because I saw some of Calvin's best teams when they routinely filled the Fieldhouse in the early 90's and have that to base my perceptions of what a Calvin crowd should be like.   In recent years I've found student support to be below what I think should be par.  I can think of 2 recent MIAA tournament games played in Calvin's gym that felt and sounded like Hope home games.  Maybe its because "Let's Go Hope" is an audibly louder cheer than "Let's Go Calvin", at least it sounds that way.  Maybe another subject for another day.

But when Calvin does get the great support, its as tough a place as any in Division 3.  I find the twists and turnings of this subject kind of funny when 99.9% of D3 would kill to have the yearly support that Hope and Calvin receive.

I'm sure Calvin will have little trouble saying goodbye to their Fieldhouse with full crowds most nights if indeed they limit capacity to 2000.

Respectfully disagree for your first parargraph.


Anyways, one of my favorite Calvin fan moments was in the 2005 NCAA tournament round 2 played at Aurora against Aurora.  Aurora was on spring break, so they only had about 25% of their own gym filled.  Calvin had about 75% of the gym filled about 25 minutes before the game and chanting "Lets go Calvin".  I will never forget the look on Aurora players and fans, as they were stunned at all the fan-support from the visiting team from another state.  The crowd really played a factor for the knights in that victory.

Same thing at the semi-final game in Salem in 2000--as soon as the earlier game finished, and the other fans left the seats at the end of the stadium, Calvin students completely (except for where that visiting band was sitting) filled in that space (and alot of the rest of the arena), and made their presence known.  It had to be intimidating to their opponents (Eu Clair?).

For those on the board that played HS or college, how much do you think the crowd affected your team?

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Allow me to interject my personal opine.

I've always found Calvin's student support to be a bit fickle, and a bit of a mystery really.  Perhaps its because I saw some of Calvin's best teams when they routinely filled the Fieldhouse in the early 90's and have that to base my perceptions of what a Calvin crowd should be like.   In recent years I've found student support to be below what I think should be par.  I can think of 2 recent MIAA tournament games played in Calvin's gym that felt and sounded like Hope home games.  Maybe its because "Let's Go Hope" is an audibly louder cheer than "Let's Go Calvin", at least it sounds that way.  Maybe another subject for another day.

But when Calvin does get the great support, its as tough a place as any in Division 3.  I find the twists and turnings of this subject kind of funny when 99.9% of D3 would kill to have the yearly support that Hope and Calvin receive.

I'm sure Calvin will have little trouble saying goodbye to their Fieldhouse with full crowds most nights if indeed they limit capacity to 2000.

Respectfully disagree for your first parargraph.


Anyways, one of my favorite Calvin fan moments was in the 2005 NCAA tournament round 2 played at Aurora against Aurora.  Aurora was on spring break, so they only had about 25% of their own gym filled.  Calvin had about 75% of the gym filled about 25 minutes before the game and chanting "Lets go Calvin".  I will never forget the look on Aurora players and fans, as they were stunned at all the fan-support from the visiting team from another state.  The crowd really played a factor for the knights in that victory.

Your comments about the Aurora game that year really drive home the point about how great it is around here as far as attendance is concerned.  Calvin was 75% of the crowd - which was a total of 1232!! 

In fact during that tournament run, the Knights only once played in front of a crowd larger than their average home crowd (2650 in the national semi-final - no attendace listed for the 3/4 game)

[sac]

I actually had to cut short my previous post because of public library time limits..........(yes, I actually went to the library to use the internet today.)

I didn't get to add, that I think the large difference you see in Calvin's attendance in good years (ie final four teams) and other years lies squarly on the 500 to 1000 extra locals who fill in the empty seats but don't seem to want to bother with the program when things aren't their rosiest.  Hope has that set of fans to, its just we've always had a gym or arena that couldn't be filled anymore than what it was.  Calvin has had a nice luxury of being able to accomodate those in up years, and will continue to be able to do so.

But I generally have regarded the Fieldhouse as a much less intimidating place to play than in years past, when the student section was filled to capacity a full hour before the JV game when Hope came to town.  Which hasn't been the case at either Hope or Calvin in recent games I've been to.  I saw a couple Calvin/Albion, Calvin/Kzoo games and the atmosphere from the Calvin students pailed in comparison to a game with Hope as I'm sure the same can be said in Holland for a Calvin fan witnessing those games.

Its all relative really, I remember much more raucous and organized crowds at Calvin, just as I have at Hope.  It ebbs and flows like everything.  But the lack of an organized student section at Calvin has puzzled me for some time now.  Its always a tough place to get a W, and will be right to the day they move the hot dog boiler to the new place.

[wolverinekeith]

I echo those who have noted Calvin's variable student support.  It surprised me during my years there, although I admit I didn't attend all the home games either.

Interestingly, I did attend the Calvin/GVSU hockey game last night and it was packed (Calvin lost 5-4...grrr).  I don't know how many the Jolly Roger arena holds (1,000?  1,200?) but it was jam-packed with students, at least as many as were there during the raucous days of 2003/2004, when Calvin won the D3 Club Hockey national title and when the Jolly had a "don't ask, don't tell" policy towards students bringing their own beverages inside.  (The Calvin administration got wise to all the fun that was being had after that, and imposed a crackdown of sorts, although it's hard for them because the games are played off campus.)

To get back to the point....it seems interesting to me that hockey, a club sport, garners as much support on campus (in terms of student attendence)  as men's bball.  From my eyeball perspective it does seem the hockey crowd is made up of some of the more socially influential kids, so maybe that has something do with it. 

[Dark Knight]

To get back to the point....it seems interesting to me that hockey, a club sport, garners as much support on campus (in terms of student attendence)  as men's bball.  From my eyeball perspective it does seem the hockey crowd is made up of some of the more socially influential kids, so maybe that has something do with it. 

There are way too many activities available on campus for busy students to attend all of them. They seem to come out in droves for particular events and skip other events. And the popular event du jour changes from jour to jour.

I don't know whether it's socially influential kids, dorm RAs, the student newspaper, or what, but somebody is deciding what events to push and students tend to attend in packs.

That helps explain the big peaks in basketball attendance at Calvin in national championship years.

Why don't IWU and Hope show the same peaks? At the risk of belaboring the obvious, Hope and IWU haven't had national championship runs recently. And they don't have excess seating capacity to handle a big increase anyway.