MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[wiz]

Guys who did not advance from the JV after two years that would have no trouble whatsoever making every other MIAA team.

Uh yea, O.K. all righty then. 

Well, yes and no.  They would have had problems making other teams in the past but that won't be true in the future.  You see, I just spoke with the Obama campaign folks and they assure me that if "that man" is president, the wealth is going to be spread around.  No longer will Albion, Calvin and Hope be the top 3 in the MIAA.  The players and coaches will be redistributed around the league so that the teams with the richest basketball traditions will now give up their wealth of talent and it will be given to those that have not been achievers in the past.  So, those people that couldn't advance from JV in the past will now be able to move right on up in the future.  All teams will have a .500 record and there will be parity in the league.  Everything will be fair.  Is this a great country, or what?

[hopehoopfan]

There are guys who did not advance from the JV after two years that would have no trouble whatsoever making every other MIAA team.

Uh yea, O.K. all righty then. 

You may snicker, but folks familiar with Hope's program will probably agree. I am not claiming they would start, but I am fairly certain  Boersma could play just about anywhere else in the MIAA. 

That's funny about Obama, because I heard he wanted the kids who got lots of  candy this Halloween to give half of their take to the kids too lazy to go out

[calvin_grad]

TAS:  Did your original question get answered about Calvin players?  If not, here goes:

Engelsma - getting married and attending seminary
Van Harn - overseas
Koetsier - injuries
Schuster - health reasons

Let me say that as a Calvin fan, (and I honestly don't know how good the freshmen coming in are), I have been a little underwhelmed with Calvin's last couple of classes.  After Mantel and  Veldhouse, there doesn't seem like there are any younger players who have shown 1st or 2nd team MIAA potential.  We'll see.  Aberration?  Trend?  Maybe I'm way out in left field.  It's happened before.

[wolverinekeith]

Any of the Calvin folks here get a chance to see any of the new guys on varsity?  Specifically, Salo (Northwood transfer), Schnyders (GRCC transfer) or Campbell (GRCC transfer).  Any of these guys have a shot at starting? 

Hope guys - who do you expect to be the starters?  I figure Osburn & Reimink, being captains, are good bets.  What about the guards?  Tanis?  Bunn?  Carter? 

[HopeConvert]

To beg a question (petitio principii) is a statement where what you are trying to prove is implied within the statement itself; where the premises themselves are questionable.

If a series of observations lead one to inquire further into a matter, that is "raising a question," not "begging" one.

CHN(rrfdc): didn't you go over this in one of your philosophy classes?

(Along with the misuse of the word "diction," this is a battle on which I have nearly conceded defeat. LITERALLY! -- oops, there's another one.)

[KnightSlappy]

For the last few years there has been some discussion about KVS's system and whether or not it is a good one.  I didn't always listen at first but I am beginning to now.  A top 2 finish in the MIAA with 3 tournament bids in four years just isn't cutting it at Calvin.  We need to be thinking bigger here.  We are talking about the CALVIN KNIGHTS here! Nothing less than an NCAA banner should be acceptable.

The Calvin situation reminds me a lot of the UM football situation.  This Lloyd Carr offense has been driving me nuts this year!  Run left, run left, run left.  No variation whatsoever.  It is looking like another same-old-same-old 10-2 season for Big Blue with a BCS or Capital One Bowl Bid.  Can't we see something more?  I think it is time to go out and find some new coach with some sort of spread offense that can take the Maize and Blue to the next level.  Here's to wishful thinking!

No Chicken Little, the sky is not falling.

EGADS!

(For the Hope fans: No one should take anything I said in this post seriously)

[MIdoubleA]

The Calvin situation reminds me a lot of the UM football situation.  This Lloyd Carr offense has been driving me nuts this year!  Run left, run left, run left.  No variation whatsoever.  It is looking like another same-old-same-old 10-2 season for Big Blue with a BCS or Capital One Bowl Bid.  Can't we see something more?  I think it is time to go out and find some new coach with some sort of spread offense that can take the Maize and Blue to the next level.  Here's to wishful thinking!

Did this post get lost in the time-space continuum?

[ziggy]

The Calvin situation reminds me a lot of the UM football situation.  This Lloyd Carr offense has been driving me nuts this year!  Run left, run left, run left.  No variation whatsoever.  It is looking like another same-old-same-old 10-2 season for Big Blue with a BCS or Capital One Bowl Bid.  Can't we see something more?  I think it is time to go out and find some new coach with some sort of spread offense that can take the Maize and Blue to the next level.  Here's to wishful thinking!

Did this post get lost in the time-space continuum?

Never use an easy button to find a lost easy button.

I live for this! woooohooooo!!!

[hoopdreams]

why are recruits coming to Hope?  Tradition, facility, and most importantly, the coaching staff.  The coaches wear their heart on their sleeve, not that others don't, are good Christian men, not that others aren't, and many kids of strong character appreciate that.  The atmosphere at the civic and now the Devos is unlike any other around regardless of division. Exception: Breslin Center.

In response to other comments:
There are many kids who got cut at Hope who could indeed play at other MIAA schools.  Some could start, some would be role players and some would get cut.  Boersma probably wasn't the best example.  Jungling could start, Wiese would be a role player.  I think Curtis Carroll (jv) would get significant minutes on a varsity team elsewhere. 

Incoming freshman thinking they could play right away and part of their decision to go to Hope?  Another perspective- a hs kid could also look at the current sophs and think, " I don't want to get stuck behind him for 3 years" Chris Hutton or Steve Wilmers anyone? Last year Hope lost potential players, including some community college transfers (kevin ludwig-former wo player and  spring arbor starter) because of carter, tanis, bowser and sharples.  Some kids see the writing on the wall, some like ryan ross assumed he would walk on campus and start.

I think Hope will play a 3 headed monster at the 5- osburn, venemma, and scott in that order. Unless Andy plays with fire.  If so, he will see a lot more pt.  Could be a stud because he has the ability. I also think there will be a variety of lineups depending on the opponent.  3 guards- tanis, carter bunn, could go big with osburn venemma and reimink.  Will bowser play the 4 at times like Klein? because is lateral quickness defensively on the perimeter is an issue.  Lots of possibilities, I think GVW loves the flexibility he has.  I think you will see things a lot more uptempo because this group is significantly quicker with DVS, wolfe and MVH NOT on the floor.  We will see more created off the dribble, penetrate and kick out, penetrate and dump.  Big men will get lots of easy baskets.  Getting 5 on the floor to commit to rebounding will be their biggest challenge.

[hopehoopfan]

Hoopdreams, very well put! Ok,  me mentioning Boersma may not be the best example and is based on me having seen him play last year. I have not seen Jungling play, and I almost mentioned Wiese, but because he only had the one year and decided not to play(he was not cut) I  did not bring him up. Kevin Tonn who transferred to I think a school in Illinois probably could play Varsity at least half the schools in the MIAA, but I think he realized he wouldn't see much time if in fact he did make Varsity this year. As for Carroll, it will be interesting to see who if either, he or Keyser advances to the Varsity next year.  Two very capable PGs on JV  that would see time elsewhere.

[gohope]

Any of the Calvin folks here get a chance to see any of the new guys on varsity?  Specifically, Salo (Northwood transfer), Schnyders (GRCC transfer) or Campbell (GRCC transfer).  Any of these guys have a shot at starting?  

It just brings a smile  to my face to hear the maroon and gold folks talk about transfers!

[gohope]

And.... can someone get some gps directions to SAC so that he can get out of "Exile"??!!!   

[Bob MacKenzie]

Why do so many more young men show up to play basketball at Hope?  It's probably the blue blazers and khaki slacks.  But if not that, maybe...

Calvin ought to start spending some more money on recruiting.

The colleges are required to report this information to the US Dept of Education.
I'd guess the Dept. of Education gives some direction regarding what to report.
Here are some 5 year MIAA averages.

Athletic recruiting budget.
1. Hope $149,562
2. Kzoo $22,579
3. Olivet $20, 743
4. Trine $19,168
5. Alma $18,591
6. Albion $17,061
7. Adrian $12,302
8. Calvin $8,340 (no football)

Budget per athlete
1. Hope $300
2. Kzoo $76
3. Trine $53
4. Olivet $45
5. Alma $43
6. Adrian $33
7. Albion $31
8. Calvin $27

I'm sure there's some variance in how different schools interpret the instructions for what to report, but that's a pretty big discrepancy between #1 and #2-8.  What does it mean?  I don't know.  Maybe the good folks at Hope are just the most honest.

[MIdoubleA]

Why do so many more young men show up to play basketball at Hope?  It's probably the blue blazers and khaki slacks.  But if not that, maybe...

Calvin ought to start spending some more money on recruiting.

The colleges are required to report this information to the US Dept of Education.
I'd guess the Dept. of Education gives some direction regarding what to report.
Here are some 5 year MIAA averages.

Athletic recruiting budget.
1. Hope $149,562
2. Kzoo $22,579
3. Olivet $20, 743
4. Trine $19,168
5. Alma $18,591
6. Albion $17,061
7. Adrian $12,302
8. Calvin $8,340 (no football)

Budget per athlete
1. Hope $300
2. Kzoo $76
3. Trine $53
4. Olivet $45
5. Alma $43
6. Adrian $33
7. Albion $31
8. Calvin $27

I'm sure there's some variance in how different schools interpret the instructions for what to report, but that's a pretty big discrepancy between #1 and #2-8.  What does it mean?  I don't know.  Maybe the good folks at Hope are just the most honest.

Any chance there is a breakdown on sport for that?

I'll remain strong in my conviction that the two people most responsible for getting kids to Hope College are Dean Kreps and God.

[oldknight]

Why do so many more young men show up to play basketball at Hope?  It's probably the blue blazers and khaki slacks.  But if not that, maybe...

Calvin ought to start spending some more money on recruiting.

One year back in the 70's (Mark Veenstra's freshmen year) Calvin had a total of 18 players combined on their two teams--10 varsity and 8 on JV. Calvin hoops has been in steep decline ever since, a decline from which the program never recovered.