MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

Picket Fence · February 05, 2006, 03:23:10 PM

Why would Wooster be ahead of Hope in the regional rankings? I'm not saying that Hope or Wooster should be 1 or 2 either way, but more looking for an agrument one way or the other.

David Collinge · February 05, 2006, 03:43:13 PM

Quote from: Picket Fence on February 05, 2006, 03:23:10 PM
Why would Wooster be ahead of Hope in the regional rankings? I'm not saying that Hope or Wooster should be 1 or 2 either way, but more looking for an agrument one way or the other.

I think probably Wooster has a slight edge. Both teams have just one in-region loss, but Wooster has four more wins (16-1 vs. 12-1.) One factor is wins vs. regionally-ranked opponents, which applies to any region. Wooster will have at least three of these: Witt x2 and UW-Stout. Hope will have either Albion or Calvin (one or the other will be ranked, but probably not both, unless they're tied for 6th); Elmhurst probably won't be ranked. The QoWIs are pretty even; prior to yesterday, Wooster was at 10.563 and Hope was at 10.500; Wooster's road win was a 15-ponter vs. Hope's 14-point home win, so Wooster will still have a marginally higher QoWI. On balance, I think Wooster gets the #1 regional spot, with Hope at #2. The other ranked teams, in some order, will probably be Wittenberg, Carnegie-Mellon, Baldwin-Wallace, and either Calvin or Albion.

MIdoubleA · February 05, 2006, 04:31:11 PM

Quote from: David Collinge on February 05, 2006, 03:43:13 PM
Quote from: Picket Fence on February 05, 2006, 03:23:10 PM
Why would Wooster be ahead of Hope in the regional rankings? I'm not saying that Hope or Wooster should be 1 or 2 either way, but more looking for an agrument one way or the other.

I think probably Wooster has a slight edge. Both teams have just one in-region loss, but Wooster has four more wins (16-1 vs. 12-1.) One factor is wins vs. regionally-ranked opponents, which applies to any region. Wooster will have at least three of these: Witt x2 and UW-Stout. Hope will have either Albion or Calvin (one or the other will be ranked, but probably not both, unless they're tied for 6th); Elmhurst probably won't be ranked. The QoWIs are pretty even; prior to yesterday, Wooster was at 10.563 and Hope was at 10.500; Wooster's road win was a 15-ponter vs. Hope's 14-point home win, so Wooster will still have a marginally higher QoWI. On balance, I think Wooster gets the #1 regional spot, with Hope at #2. The other ranked teams, in some order, will probably be Wittenberg, Carnegie-Mellon, Baldwin-Wallace, and either Calvin or Albion.

When you say Hope's home win was by 14, who are you talking about? Hope beat Albion and Calvin by 19 and 18 points, respectively. I'm just attempting to understand...

David Collinge · February 05, 2006, 04:50:36 PM

Sorry, I guess that was confusing. In calculating QoWI (Quality of Wins Index), you earn a certain number of points for an in-region game, and the points depends on a) whether you won or lost, b) whether you were home or away, and c) what the in-region win % of the other team was. Wooster beat Wittenberg at Wittenberg. That's a win, on the road, against a team with a regional win % > .667 (I'm doing this from memory; I think it's correct, but if it's not precise, it's at least correct in concept.) That translates to 15 QoWI points. Hope won, over Albion (>.667), at home; that was worth 14 points.

Each team has a QoWI of approximately 10.5; that's the average of all of these QoWI points over their regional schedule. So both teams had their QoWI go up yesteray, but Wooster's went up a little bit more than Hope's did, (only) because they were on the road while Hope was at home. I hope that helps.

By the way, margin of victory is not a factor at all in calculating QoWI, or for that matter any other part of the regional ranking. Which is good news for Albion, whose MOV is lower than the other top teams. (Wooster is #1 in D3 in MOV.)

BogeyMan · February 05, 2006, 05:13:37 PM

MIdoubleA - I really don't agree with your comments on Crawford. When you are good enough to get the ball to the basket why should you shoot the jumper? The goal offensively in basketball is to get the highest percentage shot possible. Crawford doesn't need to shoot jumpers because no one can keep him from the basket. I know a lot of players that would love to shoot 8 for 12 from the field and get 9 rebounds against the No. 4 ranked team in the nation.

I am not an Albion fan or a Hope fan, I just love D3 basketball. Crawford is still the best player in the league, by a margin! Maybe Hope fans are just jealous because this will be two years in a row that an Albion player will win the MVP of the league.

MIdoubleA · February 05, 2006, 05:42:58 PM

Quote from: BogeyMan on February 05, 2006, 05:13:37 PM
MIdoubleA - I really don't agree with your comments on Crawford. When you are good enough to get the ball to the basket why should you shoot the jumper? The goal offensively in basketball is to get the highest percentage shot possible. Crawford doesn't need to shoot jumpers because no one can keep him from the basket. I know a lot of players that would love to shoot 8 for 12 from the field and get 9 rebounds against the No. 4 ranked team in the nation.

Sorry Bogeyman, let me explain further.

I'm not saying Crawford should be shooting more jumpers, or even that he needs to. I'm saying he CAN'T. He's a terrible shooter. That is what makes him a good player, because he plays to his strength - his inside game. Hopefully that helps clarify a little... as for Hope fans being jealous, of course we are! Who isn't? Any team that isn't jealous of Crawford and his playing ability as a dominant center is crazy.

Mr. Ypsi · February 05, 2006, 05:47:49 PM

David,

Good, clear explanation on QOWI (nice to see that you can still talk like a person, rather than a lawyer, when need be!

)

One minor correction: the top points require the opponent to be .667+, not .750+.

BogeyMan · February 05, 2006, 05:48:05 PM

MIdoubleAA

Great comeback and it made a lot of sense. Thanks for explaining your comments!

David Collinge · February 05, 2006, 05:54:20 PM

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2006, 05:47:49 PM
Good, clear explanation on QOWI (nice to see that you can still talk like a person, rather than a lawyer, when need be! )

One minor correction: the top points require the opponent to be .667+, not .750+.

Yeah, I thought that might be it. Rather than take the time to find the link to the rulebook, I figured I'd put in my disclaimer. Thanks for the clarification. I corrected the post in question, so as not to cause further confusion.

So the table would look like this:

Lose at home to <.333 = 0 points
Lose on road to <.333 = 1
Lose at home to <.500 = 2
Lose on road to <.500 = 3
Lose at home to <.667 = 4
Lose on road to <.667 = 5
Lose at home to >.667 = 6
Lose on road to >.667 = 7

Win, and add 8 points to each scenario above. Remember, these are in-region win percentages only.

I'm not sure if these shold be 'less than' or 'less than or equal to' signs; i.e. I'm not sure if beating a .500 team at home is worth 8 or 10 points. Ypsi?

NW Hope Fan · February 05, 2006, 06:02:10 PM

Quote from: BogeyMan on February 05, 2006, 05:13:37 PM
Maybe Hope fans are just jealous because this will be two years in a row that an Albion player will win the MVP of the league.

Quote from: MIdoubleA on February 05, 2006, 05:42:58 PM

...as for Hope fans being jealous, of course we are! Who isn't?

I would argue MIdoubleAA that we are indeed not jealous. I think any team out there would rather have a championship than an MVP. If you can have both... then maybe some jealousy. But frankly, if we can beat Albion with the type of scoring we had yesterday, wouldn't you rather have that than be a team mostly relying on one or two guys?

Last year the only guy we had that could have/ should have won such award played very little with an injured finger... Such is life.

No... not jealous at all!

Mr. Ypsi · February 05, 2006, 06:15:28 PM

David,

Greater than or equal to is the standard. Beat a team at .500, you've got 12 or 13 points (UNLESS you beating them put them under .500!)

Another elaboration: QOWI is constantly changing right up to the end of the season, as your former opponents win or lose in-region games. A 13-point win can fall to an 11-point win if your on-the-road victim from 2 months ago falls below .500 in-region.

Such a complicated statistic, since it is utterly irrational anyway in selecting a NATIONAL tournament!

Pat Coleman · February 05, 2006, 06:22:48 PM

It's in the FAQ precisely as worded in the championships handbook.

It's confusing as heck on the first read-through but eventually one can get accustomed to it.

albionbritfan · February 05, 2006, 10:23:19 PM

Stinger-
I'm pretty sure that Crawford didn't play in the last 3-4 minutes of the game. And as for the rest of it, Albion was steamrolled by a momentum shift. Albion's other 4 players on the court have to be a threat. If they don't move, attack the basket or hit the outside shot, the opposing team has a much easier time guarding BC. That's was the key to Albion's win against Hope at Albion. And don't get me wrong, Hope faithful. Hope played some great defense and shot it well down the stretch. The win was yours.

RastaRob · February 06, 2006, 01:10:59 AM

Brit Fan,

I completey agree with what you wrote about Crawford. I was at both Hope/Albion games and the rest of the Albion team was the difference. Bailey was amazing at Albion. He shot well and shared the ball well. He made Immink look like a freshman. In all Albion shot really well at home and did not shoot well at the DeVos. That is a problem. Honestly, Hope didnt shoot all that well either. It was teh inside play that made the difference. Phillips made his lay-ups and Voisen was a force. I agree with earler posts that hsi dunk over Crawford was the play of the game and it really was a momentum builder. Hard to say that a dunk is only worth 2 points. It can be worth so much more if doen at the right time.

I also want to echo that I was proud of the Dew Crew. I thought they were fantastic. They kept it together the whole game. The cahnst were good and the seemed to be having a lot of fun. My only concern is where are all teh juniors and seniors. Come support your team! They could go all the way this year. You dont realize what you are missing!

calvin_grad · February 06, 2006, 09:14:08 AM

If Calvin beats Hope, but loses to Albion, who hosts the MIAA tournamnet? Does it go to a coin flip? Calvin and Hope would have split against each other and Albion and would be 2-0 against all the other teams.