MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[formerd3db]

Officials

I think the MIAA has lost some good officials the last couple years, not sure why, but I've seen only 5 or 6 games and other than Kelser, Kooiker and one other guy I haven't recognized any of them.

As bad as officiating is, the cries from the stands is equally bad.

I have seen some other familiar names; Jopie, Creek, Bray.  Doug Wentworth has noted on recent broadcasts that he is seeing some faces for the first time.

Not to give fans an excuse, but bad calls are harder to take when they are so prevalent.  To err is human, but bad officiating can be infuriating.  Optimistically, the decrease in quality officiating is a blip on the radar and will increase with experience.

I wouldn't hold your breath re: your last sentence.  In all seriousness, the MIAA officiating in other sports, specifically football and the hockey in the CCHA (ACHA) in which Hope, Calvin, GVSU, etc. play in, has been extremely poor in recent years.  We all realize that missed or bad calls are going to be made and always will as that is inevitable and just part of the human experience in sports.  I think it rare (although no one can say it hasn't ever happened, because I've witnessed it)  that any officials would purposely make an incorrect call or questionable call with malice because they have had an arguement (uh...perhaps we should say a disagreeable discussion or difference of opinion with a coach regarding the "semantics game" ).  However, it is particularly disturbing that officials have repeatedly demonstrated a lack of concern, close overview, etc. (or whatever terms one wants to use to describe this) of blatently dangerous situations and actions by players that could very easily cause serious injury to those student-athletes invovled.  I have seen this as a serious and continuous occurance in both football and hockey (lacrosse much less, thankfully, although there have been one -or two - IMO, vindictive referees there).

Human error is one thing, however, potential injury issues is an entirely different aspect.  When officiating crews allow the actions to get out of hand, then serious health threats are "in play" and that is simply inexcusable.  My point of all this is to join with all of you who have been discussing this topic in hoping that the quality of officiating in our league in all the sports will improve in the future.  It has been in a downslide in recent years and while I hope improvement occurs "in the life cycle" as it does among the decades (and I believe it will), noentheless, I also believe that it will not happen overnight.  We need to encourage young people who have an interest to participate and engage in the officiating profession so as to ensure good officials in the future.  Not a far fetched idea, but rather it is essential.  On the other hand, some of the skeptics, nay-sayers, might say..."it doesn't matter; the games will go on"

[formerd3db]

RFMichigan:

My brother went to Alma as well and was a standout student-athlete there, so I know much about that school as well and particularly with regard to the athletic situation as well as the academic administration of the school itself.  There are a lot more of underlying/background issues than you might think (that you might not be aware of) in regards to the question you raise regarding facilities and by that I mean both financial and the oversight of those by the administration.  Not everyone, including myself, felt that the administration handled some of those decisions very well in the past and, moreover, there has always been some tension between the athletic department and admininstration in some respects for years, as perhaps compared to other of our MIAA schools.  I will not go into specifics here on this public forum as this is not the appropriate place to do so.  I will say, however, that there are legit reasons for upgrading all facilities both athletic and academic and it is absolutely possible to do both and in the right way, including financially.  It's just that everyone needs to be willing to work together and with the same vision - unfortunately, that doesn't always happen.  If schools like Hope, Calvin, Adrian and now Olivet can do it, Alma can to (and I say this as a former student-athlete who still loves his sport(s) and who was in the same academic course as your brother.

My apologies if I disagree with you/your brother to some extent, however, new athletic facilities are essential for today's students (all of them) and most small colleges work within that parameter as well.  Also, I think you'll find that Alma's tentative plans for their proposed new facilities are in mind with sharing with the community for other functions similar to what Hope has done for years and I assume Calvin will be doing (from what I've heard).  At least in this vein, the current administration there is making efforts to work with the athletic administration for the good of all (and they have also committed to much upgrades to the science, kinese and other academic facilities there in recent years).  Just my $0.02 cents  

[RFMichigan]

formerd3db:

Thank you for your response. I really agree with your last paragraph, and I hope that Alma is able to succeed with their plans. Yes, we all want the most up-to-date facilities for our alma mater's, say, teacher education department because the whole school benefits, The same, then, should hold true with improved athletic/physical education facilities benefiting the entire fabric of the student body and community.

[oldknight]

RFMichigan asks some worthy questions and formerd3db makes some excellent observations in response. Congratulations to both of you on cogent posts. I know my parents, if alive, would probably be upset by the amount of financial resources Calvin devoted to an athletic facility, but they were from a different era of Calvin supporters and sports was never very important to my parents. On the other hand, I don't remember that they complained much when Calvin spent a lot of money building the Fieldhouse in the mid-60's, and at the time it was considered a premier athletic venue.  Others might complain more today except for the fact that major donors stepped up to finance the bulk of the cost of the new construction and I don't think Calvin has sacrificed their academics in favor of athletic expenditures. Expectations are different today and quality facilities are needed to attract students. In addition to needing (wanting?) a new arena to house the Calvin/Hope game, as well as any other game of great importance to the community, there are other uses for the facility. Having graduation on campus has long been important to the college and the Fieldhouse is simply not suitable anymore for this event, nor any other major gathering the school might host.

[sac]

As much as I hate to admit it, from just browsing around sites and visiting a few D3's to watch basketball games.  MIAA facilities for its students let alone competition are below average on the whole.  In some cases well below average. 

Take Hope for example, for a school with 3,000 students I think it could be argued the Dow Center under serves the students needs, esp when compared to other colleges of similar size and academic quality.  It would be even worse if Hope didn't have DeVos to lighten some of the load.  I've seen schools almost half Hope's size have twice the facilites for athletics.  (Carthage comes to mind)

The Hogan Center at Alma is 40 years old, its in need of an upgrade even if on the outside it still looks relatively new.   Also keep in mind the standards for competitive venues and classrooms changes over time and 40 year old buildings may not meet those standards any longer.

[formerd3db]

RFMichigan, oldknight, sac and list:

First, thank you to RF and OK for your kind comments and also thank you to all three of you (yes, you too sac, my friend ) for all of your very well thought out responses and opinions.  RF, I did not intend my comments to be "of critical comment" regarding your questions, so if that perhaps seemed as such even in the slightest, my apoloies...because I agree with oldknight that indeed you raised some very legit questions and concerns.  Yet, as all of you have pointed out, times and needs have changed in this "modern" era and the efforts by our colleges to meet those needs of the students and community are moving forward, even if there are some different ways (and opinions) as to how to accomplish that.  I think we (and others) all agree that it is a necessary step just for survival sake of the institution in this "day and age" of competition with respect to attracting students as well as the community contributions as we've discussed.

Anyway, thanks for the excellent discussion and, I might add, if I may, that I am glad to see such great and civil discussion on this board as many have encouraged, promoted in recent days.  While this current discussion  obviously pertained to "non-sports actions" issues, let's see if everyone here (myself included ) can continue to keep it "civil" in here when further basketball action resumes this weekend around the league!   Thanks again all.

[Intangir]

RFMichigan, oldknight, sac and list:

First, thank you to RF and OK for your kind comments and also thank you to all three of you (yes, you too sac, my friend ) for all of your very well thought out responses and opinions.  RF, I did not intend my comments to be "of critical comment" regarding your questions, so if that perhaps seemed as such even in the slightest, my apoloies...because I agree with oldknight that indeed you raised some very legit questions and concerns.  Yet, as all of you have pointed out, times and needs have changed in this "modern" era and the efforts by our colleges to meet those needs of the students and community are moving forward, even if there are some different ways (and opinions) as to how to accomplish that.  I think we (and others) all agree that it is a necessary step just for survival sake of the institution in this "day and age" of competition with respect to attracting students as well as the community contributions as we've discussed.

Anyway, thanks for the excellent discussion and, I might add, if I may, that I am glad to see such great and civil discussion on this board as many have encouraged, promoted in recent days.  While this current discussion  obviously pertained to "non-sports actions" issues, let's see if everyone here (myself included ) can continue to keep it "civil" in here when further basketball action resumes this weekend around the league!   Thanks again all.

I think that bolded part is definitely true, in Calvin's case it was just time to upgrade.  They didn't technically need the space for basketball games, the fieldhouse was never full except for the Calvin/Hope games and maybe homecoming, but they did want the additional seating for graduation.  If I remember correctly, the pool was horrendously out of code and needed a complete overhaul, the weight room was completely inadequate for the size of the school, and there were very limited facilities for practices, classes, and intermurals to use all at once.  Considering all the new and upgraded academic buildings Calvin has added in the last ~10-15 years (enormous new communications/media building, new conference center, new nature center, new engineering building, new dorm (and renovated old ones), and science building), the fieldhouse was probably the oldest unchanged building on campus.

I got to take a tour of the place before it opened and the guy leading us around told us that they got the developers and builders to all donate some of their profits back to the place and they used the money to build the climbing wall.  How cool is that? 

[formerd3db]

Intangir:

Definitely cool!   It is nice to know that community business owners care enough to contribute to such worthy causes, especially in this tight economic era.  I have not seen the new facility at Calvin, other than in the photos posted on the athletic website of the first bb game, however, it looks very, very nice.  Obviously, there are differences in design between Hope's DeVos and Calvin's new facility that will be "liked" and "disliked" by their respective patrons, alumni, etc., but nothing wrong with that.  Indeed, for example, both schools now having an available indoor option for graduation in case of rain/inclement weather is a huge plus, let alone for other potential community functions if desired.

[Hopester]

On Trine's first 3-pointer last night Weir's right foot was clearly inside the line. His back heel was even with the back of the line, and I know this because I was looking right at it. Yet it was counted as a 3. This is not the first time I have seen this happen this year, so I'm wondering if these refs have been getting a little confused about the lines.

Don't worry I helped get the point back... on a shot later in the first half a Trine player (Mislan, I believe) shot a three pointer from just behind the arc. A few other students and I turned to the ref as soon as the ball was shot and yelled "two, two, two" the ref then proceeded to only give it two points.

[Happy Calvin Guy]

I haven't seen a game in Van Noord yet, but I've been in it, and it seemed to me to have a lack of intimacy.

That has been my thought too.  DeVos seems to be a lot more intimate, and not just because it has fewer seats.  It's the layout and the fact that Calvin has a wide concourse separating the lower bowl from the upper.

I also thought something didn't feel quite right about it, and that's as close as I've come to putting my finger on it.

Maybe all the fans dressed in their empty seat costumes? 

[sac]

I haven't seen a game in Van Noord yet, but I've been in it, and it seemed to me to have a lack of intimacy.

That has been my thought too.  DeVos seems to be a lot more intimate, and not just because it has fewer seats.  It's the layout and the fact that Calvin has a wide concourse separating the lower bowl from the upper. 

Hope hired Ellerbe-Beckett to design the arena.  EB is the premier arena builder in the country.   Their portfolio is impressive  http://www.ellerbebecket.com/expertise/portfolio/2/0/0/Sports_Venue.html

I remember their architects and engineers spent at least a couple games watching at the Holland Civic Center to get a feel for what was needed.  Safe to say they knew what they were doing when they designed DeVos.

Remember Hope already has a multipurpose facility on campus, so multi-use was not the #1 goal of DeVos.  The #1 goal was to build an on-campus arena for hosting athletic and community events.

Calvin and Hope had different goals when their respective projects first started, its probably safe to say both achieved what they wanted.

[gohope]

A little tardy, but some thoughts from Wednesday's game:

*  First off, DEFENSE, DEFENSE, DEFENSE!!! (I know, there's something new and different!!  )  In the early minutes it was Trine 6, Hope 0 - Time out Hope!  A little reminder from the coaching staff that EVERYBODY needs to play BOTH offense and defense. After that things seemed to be better for the Dutchmen.  Just before halftime though, there was a little "relaxation" which only allowed a 4 point lead for Hope. Credit Trine for their ability to step it up and credit Hope for remembering the saying that defense often wins games!!

*  Trine's coach referred to their young team in post-game interviews. Their roster shows 7 FR, 4 SO and 5 JR. - NO SENIORS. They start 2 SO and 3 JR with a FR (Jackson) coming in quickly to the game and getting a lot of game play. He's definitely someone to watch.  I too was amazed at their record. I'm going to guess that they keep improving with each game. Should be an interesting last MIAA league game down in Angola.

*  It was GREAT to see Brandon Bosch play. I know that he's had a few injuries, and I'm going to guess that he's playing through them, but I was just really happy to see him on the floor.

* It seemed like Trine was raining 3's as they were 8 for 21 and season wise they are 132 for 382. Looking at other schools, Alma is 117 for 346 and Calvin has shot 114.  Just seemed that they were taking a number of 3's, which I think they were known for during  the past few years. But there isn't such a huge gap between their attempts and other MIAA school attempts.  So maybe it was just heavy dew...

* FDF - We missed you!  Your seat mates were struggling without you!  You must be the "gel" that keeps your team together!!



Now looking to Saturday - it's a FULL DAY of basketball at Hope! So grab your seat pads or just sit back and enjoy as the tip off begins at 1:00 pm with the Dutch JV playing the Alumni, followed by the Flying Dutch vs. St. Mary's; then the men's JV and the final tip is at 7:30 with the men's varsity playing the "front page" brothers from Olivet.



And one last thought regarding the game on this Sunday:  GO STEELERS!!! 

[almcguirejr]

D3Hoops has an article on the McClary Brothers:

http://www.d3hoops.com/nation/

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Seeing as we've reached the halfway point of the conference season, I thought I would take a look at who might be the 1st and 2nd team all MIAA, based solely on the statistics. 

I looked at the top 10 in each category (a few categories had less than 10 ranked), and awarded points based on ranking:
 
10 points for 1st, 9 points for 2nd... on down to 1 point for 10th. 

I then summed the points, and sorted the list.  Seems like this should be a great starting point for any discussions of all MIAA and league MVP - keeping in mind this is half a season, and there are lots of non-statistical contributions to consider.

Player	School	Points	# of Top 10 Categories
1st TEAM
Jesse Reimink	Hope	75	11
Brandon McClary	Olivet	64	9
Michael McClary	Olivet	51	7
Desmond Young	Adrian	47	6
David Krombeen	Hope	33	4
John Mantel	Calvin	32	5
2nd TEAM
Andre Evans	Olivet	30	5
Wes Weir	Trine	30	5
Ryan DeHaan	Alma	29	5
Deon Thompson	Trine	29	3
Peter Bunn	Hope	27	5
Michael Staley	Adrian	24	4
Matt Veltema	Calvin	22	3
Joe Post	Olivet	21	4
JC Cruse	Albion	20	4
Matt Wayne	Adrian	20	3
Will Bowser	Hope	20	3
Andrew Holms	Albion	18	2
Dustin Smith	Calvin	16	4
Chris Mislan	Trine	16	3
Mike Zwier	Calvin	12	2
Verelle Kirkwood	Kalamazoo	12	2
Cory Schneider	Alma	11	2
Drew Yancy	Albion	11	2
Jordan Redditt	Alma	10	3
Joe Prepolec	Kalamazoo	10	1
Ryan Clark	Kalamazoo	9	3
Bill Leising	Albion	5	2
Lamar Jackson	Trine	4	2
Brian O'Connor	Adrian	4	1
Isaac Thaler	Alma	3	2
Joel Kerns	Olivet	3	2
Reid McNally	Trine	3	2
Chris Primley	Adrian	1	1
Terry Brown	Alma	1	1

[CalvinChelseaMom]

FDF, this is an interesting exercise. As you say, they provide some type of indicator, but I think they miss a lot of things, too. For example, (and I'll use John since I know his stats best), John's points per game average is "accurate," but they did count a game in which he played 20 seconds. Second, John might not be in the top ten for free throw percentage, but he did make the two free throws to put Calvin on top of Hope, and though he shot miserably during a lot of the Albion game, he did make the last 5 or 7 straight to keep Calvin in the lead. I'm sure other guys have similar situations. I doubt if the all-conference teams in the past have lined up very well with a purely statistical ranking.