MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Dark Knight]

Massey's MOV-based ratings for the last few years:

	2005	2006	2007	2008	2009*
Adrian	61	228	183	181	217
Albion	10	28	127	45	69
Alma	116	171	321	271	320
Calvin	2	14	28	48	28
Hope	29	3	5	2	68
Kazoo	157	111	292	262	225
Olivet	128	226	327	156	168
Trine	93	144	137	198	296

*To 2009-02-17

Note that the whole league is pulled up if teams do well in the NCAA tourney. I'd take the 2005 results with a grain of salt since two teams went far. For this year, inter-league comparisons are based exclusively on pre-conference games; if the conference has strengthened as a whole that won't show up until the post-season. Watch for this year's rankings for all conference teams to climb if an MIAA team makes a good run.

In 2005 the MIAA finished as the 4th-strongest conference. Currently it's something like 17th.

According to these numbers, 2005's worst team would be #4 in the conference this year.

[Erm Schmigget]

Reimink has played  722 minutes, and fouled 60 times or once every 12 minutes.

Mantel has played 538 minutes, and fouled 47 times or once every 11.44 minutes.

Then, this clearly makes Mantel the MVP.  Not such a dirty player as Reimink.

Wiz:  The point I was trying to make, and I think OK reinforced it was be very careful before you jump to what looks like the "logical" conclusion based on statistics.  I think Sac has proven the point more than once that the more numbers you look at to try to reach a conclusion it only points to more numbers you need to consider. 
The real point is neither Mr Reimink nor Mr Mantel can be called or proven a "dirty" or clean player by numbers that don't give any indication of what the foul was or under what circumstances it occurred.   Just because someone claims one player or another "is getting away with murder" doesn't make it a fact.  Over time the numbers even out, and these two individuals prove that point.
Personally I wish both Mr. Reimink, and Mr. Mantel were more assertive, but that is just me, and I like winning bball games.  These guys are who they are, and both seem like darned nice young men.  Yes, basketball is just a game.

I don't envy those who have the task of choosing the league MVP when there are players like Reimink, McClary, Mantel, etc., who are all excellent players.  Probably the toughest part of making this choice is the fact that they are all such different players. 

Comparing Jesse and John provides a dilemma.  Mantel is--in the MIAA--a true post player.  He scores most of his point inside (only 33 of his 307pts from 3), and has 31 blocked shots in essentially 21 games.  Jesse, at 5 inches shorter, plays more of an inside-outside game, with 135 of his 492 points from 3, and 4 fewer blocks in 2 more games.  However, Jesse also has 2.1 steals per game, while Mantel has 0.7 steals per game.  This last stat comparison also provides some insight into where the difference in fouls might come from.  Much greater chance of commiting a foul when you're agressively attacking the ball on defense.

fwiw...

[KnightSlappy]

Calvin remains at #4 in the latest NCAA Regional Rankings.

http://www.ncaa.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/ncaa/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/DIIIMBBRANKING2-18-09

Looks like the NCAA may be going by straight RPI on this one.

[sac]

Massey's MOV-based ratings for the last few years:

	2005	2006	2007	2008	2009*
Adrian	61	228	183	181	217
Albion	10	28	127	45	69
Alma	116	171	321	271	320
Calvin	2	14	28	48	28
Hope	29	3	5	2	68
Kazoo	157	111	292	262	225
Olivet	128	226	327	156	168
Trine	93	144	137	198	296

*To 2009-02-17

Note that the whole league is pulled up if teams do well in the NCAA tourney. I'd take the 2005 results with a grain of salt since two teams went far. For this year, inter-league comparisons are based exclusively on pre-conference games; if the conference has strengthened as a whole that won't show up until the post-season. Watch for this year's rankings for all conference teams to climb if an MIAA team makes a good run.

In 2005 the MIAA finished as the 4th-strongest conference. Currently it's something like 17th.

According to these numbers, 2005's worst team would be #4 in the conference this year.

I wouldn't take that with a grain of salt........2005 was an ultra-competitive year in the MIAA.  That Adrian team that finished 4th was very good.  I thought then there were 4 teams talented enough to do well in the NCAA's.

Jeff Nokovich, Brian Schaffer, Adam Novak, Mike Lewis, Billy Collins.......that was a pretty good starting 5.  They beat Albion and Hope, as well as lost close games to Hope again and Calvin.

According to these numbers, 2005's worst team would be #4 in the conference this year.

FWIW  Tri-State's higher numbers probably have to do with them playing Grinnell ball.

[ziggy]

FWIW  Tri-State's higher numbers probably have to do with them playing Grinnell ball.

Ah, the good 'ole days!  Imagine Wes Weir's numbers in that offense; In the words of Mark Champion, "Holy Mackerel!".

[GoVols]

I've said this before and I'll say it again ... and again ... and again.
Entities like Major League Baseball and all other sports organizations could prevent a lot of headaches with two awards: Most Valuable Player, which is what Mr. Mantel seems to be to his (championship) team and Player of the Year, which is what Mr. Reimink seems to be in most everyone's eyes.
I'd hate to see the kind of bickering that went on like the year Cecil Fielder hit something like 51 homers and had a whole lotta RBIs but Rickey Henderson won the MVP because his team was a championship-caliber team.
Doesn't that make sense?

[GoKnights68]

A lot of you were not happy with the quality of WGVU's broadcast of Hope/Calvin last Wednesday.  Somebody from Calvin posted a nice 3 minutes or so highlights of  the game, which is in pretty good quality.  It has Zoerhof's block in there that some of us from talking about.

It might take a while to load, though...

http://www.calvin.edu/news/2008-09/calvin-hope2/


Go Knights.  Beat Albion!

[HopeConvert]

A lot of you were not happy with the quality of WGVU's broadcast of Hope/Calvin last Wednesday.  Somebody from Calvin posted a nice 3 minutes or so highlights of  the game, which is in pretty good quality.  It has Zoerhof's block in there that some of us from talking about.

It might take a while to load, though...

http://www.calvin.edu/news/2008-09/calvin-hope2/


Go Knights.  Beat Albion!

Hard to tell on the Zoerhof call. But at the 1:25 mark: are you kidding me? They called that a blocking foul?!?

[realist]

I've said this before and I'll say it again ... and again ... and again.
Entities like Major League Baseball and all other sports organizations could prevent a lot of headaches with two awards: Most Valuable Player, which is what Mr. Mantel seems to be to his (championship) team and Player of the Year, which is what Mr. Reimink seems to be in most everyone's eyes.
I'd hate to see the kind of bickering that went on like the year Cecil Fielder hit something like 51 homers and had a whole lotta RBIs but Rickey Henderson won the MVP because his team was a championship-caliber team.
Doesn't that make sense?

I don't care what you call it.  I think John, and Jesse are MVP's on their respective teams.  I think they are both candidates for the MIAA MVP, POY XYZ or whatever.  They both have 2 games to win or lose the final vote with the offical voters. 

[realist]

Albion a 19-2 run is about all anyone needs to know.

[bulldogalum]

Hope up 26 on Adrian at the half.  Need an update from someone who knows what the heck is going on at DeVos...Hope shot 72% in the first half--was it unbelievable shooting by Hope, awful defense by Adrian, or some combination thereof? 

[Knight In The Stan]

67-62 calvin MIAA champs, congrats to the knights and the coaching staff

[realist]

A win, but not much to party about.  To many turnovers, but they did hold a nice margin on rebounds.  Also need to practice ft's, but thankfully Albion played down to Calvin's numbers.

[Knight In The Stan]

48-32 rebounding advantage for calvin

[bulldogalum]

Hope 97
Adrian 79

I really don't know what to say.  Every time I feel like Adrian is finally starting to play great basketball, they get smacked back.  Really don't know what to make of this game.    

It's pretty hard to figure out what happened just looking at the livestats, but there certainly was a lot of offense.  Hope shot something like 64% from the floor for the game, but that number was much closer to 70% while the starters were still playing.  Hope really took its foot off the gas toward the end to keep from scoring 100.

Offensively, it didn't look like Adrian did that poorly.  They shot over 50%, and got what appeared to be good games from Staley and Young.  I'll defer to the Hope contingent on the actual details of the game.