MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Knight81]

Got any data to support that?

No data, just my impression over the years. Somebody may be able to do the research and prove me wrong. I know there are Christian school kids who have gone to Hope, and public school kids who have gone to Calvin.

[GoKnights68]

Not positive on this one, but I'm pretty sure Bryan Van Harn will not be trying out next season again.

[sac]

Got any data to support that?

One of my favorite myths about Hope basketball is the "they win with all those Christian school kids" line.

Since 2000

Mark Bray --Plymouth Christian
Kevin VanTimmeran-Grand Rapids Christian
Kyle Maas--Tri-Unity
Don Overbeek--Calvin Christian
Jason Kingma--Grand Rapids Baptist
John Veldt--South Christian
Peter Overbeek--Holland Christian
Nate Weaver--South Christian
Brett Jager--Kalamazoo Christian
Danny Brown--South Christian
Ryan Klein--Timothy Christian
Marcus Vanderheide--Calvin Christian
Derek VanSolkema--South Christian
Scott Glaser--Lenawee Christian
Tim Dykgraaf--South Christian
Cody Canan--Calvin Christian
Andy Venema--Unity Christian
Peter Bunn--Lansing Christian

Calvin
Bryan Foltice--Tri-Unity
Aaron Winkle--McBain Christian
Nate Burgess--South Christian
Nate Karsten--Holland Christian
Tim Bruinsma--Grand Rapids Christian
Jeremy Veesnstra--Kalamazoo Christian
Brian Krosschell--Grand Rapids Christian
Nick Ploegstra--Lutheran West
Rob Dykstra--Tri-Unity Christian
Josh Tubergan--Holland Christian
Josh Berguis--Unity Christian
Rob Holleman--SW Minnesota Christian
Chris Prins--Escondido Christian
Tony Westhouse--South Christian
Dave Bartels--Kalamazoo Christian
Jon VanderPlas--Kalamazoo Christian
Matt Koning--South Christian
Phil Visser--Unity Christian
Kevin Broene--Grand Rapids Christian
Mike Natelborg--Illiana Christian
Mike Worst--Grand Rapids Christian
Mark Plaiser--South Christian
Joel Hoekstra--Unity Christian
Josh Vriesman--Denver Christian
Josh Meckes--Saginaw Valley Lutheran
Brad Sall--Unity Christian
Andy Draayer--Denver Christian
Brian Rooney--Denver Christian
Brian Roelofs--Delaware City Christian
Todd Koetsier--Calvin Christian
Kyle Snoeyink--Calvin Christian
Eric DeVries--Unity Christian
Caleb Veldhouse--Sioux Falls Christian
Tyler Zoerhof--Holland Christian
Mischa McCray--Harbor Light Christian
Matt Veltema--Calvin Christian
Mike Zwier--Tri-Unity Christian
Brian VanHarn--Grand Rapids Christian
Brent Schuster--Denver Christian
Josh Englesma--Covenant Christian
Brad Schnyders--Unity Christian
Nate Sytsma--Unity Christian
Matt Capel--Unity Christian
Lincoln Fox--Grace Chrisitan


Year by year, # christian schools/# roster players

Hope
3-14
2-15
3-15
1-15
2-14
3-15
4-16
6-16
5-15
2-14

Calvin
10-13
12-14
12-14
13-15
10-15
10-14
8-14
9-14
9-14
9-15

On average
71.8% of Calvin Varsity has been made up of Christian school kids
20.9% of Hope Varsity has been made up of Christian school kids

[calvin_grad]

Got any data to support that?

One of my favorite myths about Hope basketball is the "they win with all those Christian school kids" line.

On average
71.8% of Calvin Varsity has been made up of Christian school kids
20.9% of Hope Varsity has been made up of Christian school kids

I've honestly never heard that line about Hope.  But I have heard a similar line about Calvin that goes something like..."Calvin has such an advantage because they can recruit all the Christian schools."

I've always thought of it more as a 2-way street with regards to Calvin recruiting.  Sure Calvin has an advantage because they can recruit the Christian schools, but doesn't it go both ways?  Wouldn't they have a harder time recruiting the public schools because of the distinctly Reformed education emphasis and all that means for campus life, lack of fraternitites/sororities, etc. etc. that might be more attractive to the "typical" public school student?  (Please bear in mind, I'm not trying to pigeon-hole public school kids one way and Christian school kids another - just trying to see how this might play out in recruiting, and where the emphasis in recruiting might be placed).

Any thoughts?

[northb]

Got any data to support that?

One of my favorite myths about Hope basketball is the "they win with all those Christian school kids" line.

Since 2000

Mark Bray --Plymouth Christian
Kevin VanTimmeran-Grand Rapids Christian
Kyle Maas--Tri-Unity
Don Overbeek--Calvin Christian
Jason Kingma--Grand Rapids Baptist
John Veldt--South Christian
Peter Overbeek--Holland Christian
Nate Weaver--South Christian
Brett Jager--Kalamazoo Christian
Danny Brown--South Christian
Ryan Klein--Timothy Christian
Marcus Vanderheide--Calvin Christian
Derek VanSolkema--South Christian
Scott Glaser--Lenawee Christian
Tim Dykgraaf--South Christian
Cody Canan--Calvin Christian
Andy Venema--Unity Christian
Peter Bunn--Lansing Christian

Calvin
Bryan Foltice--Tri-Unity
Aaron Winkle--McBain Christian
Nate Burgess--South Christian
Nate Karsten--Holland Christian
Tim Bruinsma--Grand Rapids Christian
Jeremy Veesnstra--Kalamazoo Christian
Brian Krosschell--Grand Rapids Christian
Nick Ploegstra--Lutheran West
Rob Dykstra--Tri-Unity Christian
Josh Tubergan--Holland Christian
Josh Berguis--Unity Christian
Rob Holleman--SW Minnesota Christian
Chris Prins--Escondido Christian
Tony Westhouse--South Christian
Dave Bartels--Kalamazoo Christian
Jon VanderPlas--Kalamazoo Christian
Matt Koning--South Christian
Phil Visser--Unity Christian
Kevin Broene--Grand Rapids Christian
Mike Natelborg--Illiana Christian
Mike Worst--Grand Rapids Christian
Mark Plaiser--South Christian
Joel Hoekstra--Unity Christian
Josh Vriesman--Denver Christian
Josh Meckes--Saginaw Valley Lutheran
Brad Sall--Unity Christian
Andy Draayer--Denver Christian
Brian Rooney--Denver Christian
Brian Roelofs--Delaware City Christian
Todd Koetsier--Calvin Christian
Kyle Snoeyink--Calvin Christian
Eric DeVries--Unity Christian
Caleb Veldhouse--Sioux Falls Christian
Tyler Zoerhof--Holland Christian
Mischa McCray--Harbor Light Christian
Matt Veltema--Calvin Christian
Mike Zwier--Tri-Unity Christian
Brian VanHarn--Grand Rapids Christian
Brent Schuster--Denver Christian
Josh Englesma--Covenant Christian
Brad Schnyders--Unity Christian
Nate Sytsma--Unity Christian
Matt Capel--Unity Christian
Lincoln Fox--Grace Chrisitan


Year by year, # christian schools/# roster players

Hope
3-14
2-15
3-15
1-15
2-14
3-15
4-16
6-16
5-15
2-14

Calvin
10-13
12-14
12-14
13-15
10-15
10-14
8-14
9-14
9-14
9-15

On average
71.8% of Calvin Varsity has been made up of Christian school kids
20.9% of Hope Varsity has been made up of Christian school kids

Now THAT is some data!  +k to sac

Can you perform a chi-square* on that while you are at it, just to make sure that it is statistically significant? 

*Disclaimer: I haven't a clue what chi-square means after all these years.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Can you perform a chi-square* on that while you are at it, just to make sure that it is statistically significant? 

*Disclaimer: I haven't a clue what chi-square means after all these years.

Isn't that some kind of fancy, schmancy tea?   

[GoKnights68]

Now THAT is some data!  +k to sac

Can you perform a chi-square* on that while you are at it, just to make sure that it is statistically significant? 

*Disclaimer: I haven't a clue what chi-square means after all these years.

I came up with a p-value of .045.  That is statically significant evidence to reject the null hypothesis.

[ziggy]

Can you perform a chi-square* on that while you are at it, just to make sure that it is statistically significant? 

*Disclaimer: I haven't a clue what chi-square means after all these years.

Isn't that some kind of fancy, schmancy tea?   

Half right, it is a dance move performed while sipping tea.

[sac]

I've honestly never heard that line about Hope.  But I have heard a similar line about Calvin that goes something like..."Calvin has such an advantage because they can recruit all the Christian schools."

I probably hear that line about Hope more from people who really don't follow the MIAA closely, but are aware.  People who don't live in the immediate Grand Rapids/Holland area.  I've also heard it a surprising number of times from people from Albion and Olivet.................not frequently but often enough that it irks me when I hear it

One of the things that can be definitively said is Calvin is about 100% more likely to get a Christian school kid from out of state than Hope.  In fact, the one out of state christian school kid in the last decade for Hope was Ryan Klein.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I've honestly never heard that line about Hope.  But I have heard a similar line about Calvin that goes something like..."Calvin has such an advantage because they can recruit all the Christian schools."

I probably hear that line about Hope more from people who really don't follow the MIAA closely, but are aware.  People who don't live in the immediate Grand Rapids/Holland area.  I've also heard it a surprising number of times from people from Albion and Olivet.................not frequently but often enough that it irks me when I hear it

One of the things that can be definitively said is Calvin is about 100% more likely to get a Christian school kid from out of state than Hope.  In fact, the one out of state christian school kid in the last decade for Hope was Ryan Klein.

And Ryan was originally leaning toward Calvin, but then came to his senses   

[goodknight]

I've honestly never heard that line about Hope.  But I have heard a similar line about Calvin that goes something like..."Calvin has such an advantage because they can recruit all the Christian schools."

I probably hear that line about Hope more from people who really don't follow the MIAA closely, but are aware.  People who don't live in the immediate Grand Rapids/Holland area.  I've also heard it a surprising number of times from people from Albion and Olivet.................not frequently but often enough that it irks me when I hear it

One of the things that can be definitively said is Calvin is about 100% more likely to get a Christian school kid from out of state than Hope.  In fact, the one out of state christian school kid in the last decade for Hope was Ryan Klein.

And Ryan was originally leaning toward Calvin, but then came to his senses   

I heard it was "$$ and centses" that came from an interested Oak Brook benefactor.

[sac]

I have no idea what D3's in Michigan were recruiting him,  but here's a snippet about Jordan Fowler

Holly's Jordan Fowler commits to Lake Forest College
Posted by Jared Field | Hotbed Hoops April 21, 2009 18:08PM
Categories: High School Hoops
One of Mid-Michigan's top senior point guards has committed to Lake Forest College near Chicago, Illinois.

Jordan Fowler, arguably the top player in the Flint Metro League as a senior, chose Lake Forest over several in-state division three programs. The 5-10 pure point had opportunities to walk-on at the division two level, but felt LFC was his best option.

Fowler will play for 3-time Midwest Conference coach of the year Chris Conger.

And, I still think he's underrated.



Stephen Bell had him #8 on his PG list.

[RFMichigan]

I have no idea what D3's in Michigan were recruiting him,  but here's a snippet about Jordan Fowler

Holly's Jordan Fowler commits to Lake Forest College
Posted by Jared Field | Hotbed Hoops April 21, 2009 18:08PM
Categories: High School Hoops
One of Mid-Michigan's top senior point guards has committed to Lake Forest College near Chicago, Illinois.

Jordan Fowler, arguably the top player in the Flint Metro League as a senior, chose Lake Forest over several in-state division three programs. The 5-10 pure point had opportunities to walk-on at the division two level, but felt LFC was his best option.

Fowler will play for 3-time Midwest Conference coach of the year Chris Conger.

And, I still think he's underrated.



Stephen Bell had him #8 on his PG list.

I've had a chance to see Fowler play twice in the last two years, and I think some MIAA teams are going to be sorry to see Fowler get away. (However, Lake Forest seems to be a quality college in a very nice suburb of Chicago. And maybe none of the MIAA schools were ever in the mix for him anyway. Who knows.)

I will say that when I saw Fowler play agianst Brad Redford in 2007, Fowler was extremely impressive and more than held his own in terms of playing the part of a big time point guard (although I don't remember them guarding each other during the game). Fowler hit a number of "me too" pull-up 3's and was able to shake defenders with a wicked cross-over. I'll be curious about his development in college!

[13wapiti]

Speaking of Lake Forest, their 2009-10 schedule shows them at the Calvin Tip-off tournament on Nov 20-21.

[sac]

I have no idea what D3's in Michigan were recruiting him,  but here's a snippet about Jordan Fowler

Holly's Jordan Fowler commits to Lake Forest College
Posted by Jared Field | Hotbed Hoops April 21, 2009 18:08PM
Categories: High School Hoops
One of Mid-Michigan's top senior point guards has committed to Lake Forest College near Chicago, Illinois.

Jordan Fowler, arguably the top player in the Flint Metro League as a senior, chose Lake Forest over several in-state division three programs. The 5-10 pure point had opportunities to walk-on at the division two level, but felt LFC was his best option.

Fowler will play for 3-time Midwest Conference coach of the year Chris Conger.

And, I still think he's underrated.



Stephen Bell had him #8 on his PG list.

I've had a chance to see Fowler play twice in the last two years, and I think some MIAA teams are going to be sorry to see Fowler get away. (However, Lake Forest seems to be a quality college in a very nice suburb of Chicago. And maybe none of the MIAA schools were ever in the mix for him anyway. Who knows.)

I will say that when I saw Fowler play agianst Brad Redford in 2007, Fowler was extremely impressive and more than held his own in terms of playing the part of a big time point guard (although I don't remember them guarding each other during the game). Fowler hit a number of "me too" pull-up 3's and was able to shake defenders with a wicked cross-over. I'll be curious about his development in college!

The article just mentions "several" state d3's recruiting him............since he ended up at Lake Forest I'll guess Kalamazoo and Albion were in the running.  But thats a pure guess.