MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sac]

Good opinion Oldknight

.....as a Hope fan it doesn't bother me one iota.  If you lose your 2-4 minutes a game because a new guy comes in, work harder in practice.  Make them play you.

If VanSolkema is good enough to play, understands the offense and defense, and makes the team better, play him.

We're all makeing a grand assumption DVS will play a lot more in the coming games.........maybe, maybe not.   None of us know the plan.  Personally I'm excited to see what happens.  I've heard it said more than a few times both on this board and in private that there just seems to be something missing for the Dutchmen.........well it won't be magically filled unless that guy is VS.  Might as well take a shot.

I think the fact thats he's had to work hard in practice for 6 weeks to see the floor speaks volumns.  GVW could have thrown him right out there, there's no doubt he's good enough to be in the first 8 or 9 rotation, that I don't think was ever a question.  He's had to put in his time.


I don't find its an issue, its overblown and I do think there's a hint of jealousy out there because Hope has the wonderfull "problem" to deal with.  You'd all love VS and you'd all love him to play for your team NOW even you Knight fans.

Calvin is one 20 foot shot with 1.7 seconds away from wondering if they'll finish 2nd or 3rd.

[sac]

Olivet's swimming title is the schools first non-men's golf title since a co-baseball title in 1981

here's the last title in the sports Olivet has won a championship.

Tennis--1930
Track--1912
Football--1974
Baseball--1981
Basketball--1973
Golf--2002

The MIAA quite offering wrestling in 1984 and I'm sure Olivet was a pretty strong program in that sport.

Over the 35 years of Men's swimming.......Albion won the first title (in the basement of Kresge no doubt) Hope has won 9 and Kalamazoo dominated with 25

Pretty big accomplishment for the Comet swim program.

[David Collinge]

DC--Ya think the regional commitee will take the high road and put Hope and Calvin in a tie? 

Someone pointed out last week that the GL Committee used to love ties, so I was a little surprised that there weren't any last week.  I think the committee's composition has changed.  Anyway at first I thought that they'd put B-W and Witt in a tie for 2nd, and Hope and Calvin in a tie for 5th, but then I couldn't decide what to do with CMU, which has the best QoWI and worst win % among the group.  You could make an argument for CMU in 2nd, or 4th, or 6th, easily.  It really gets messy when you consider that only six of CMU's "regional" games are against GL teams, leaving little ground for comparison.  (And, except for Bethany, who they beat, those six GL teams are generally pretty crummy, and don't provide much of a basis for evaluation.)

I'm certain that the top 6 are the top 6 (i.e., Albion, Lake Erie, Bethany, et al. are on the outside looking in).  Here's how these six teams compare in QoWI, win %, and head-to-head:

Wooster: #2 QoWI, #1 win %, 2-1 head to head
Witt: #3 QoWI, #4 win %, 0-2 head-to-head
B-WC: #4 QoWI, #2 win %, 1-0 head-to-head
CMU: #1 QoWI, #6 win % (behind Lake Erie and Albion, too), 0-0 head to head
Hope: #5 QoWI, #5 win %, 1-1 head to head
Calvin: #6 QoWI, #3 win %, 1-1 head to head

Wooster is clearly the #1 team looking at these data.  The other 4 are fairly clear: B-W and Witt are practically even (results against Wooster might swing this in favor of B-W), and they're both ahead of Hope and Calvin, between whom there's not much statistical differentiation.  But it just defeats me where you put CMU--does their great QoWI put them in 2nd, or does their pedestrial win % put them in 6th?  So I cop out and put them in 4th.   

[oldknight]

Sac:

In writing my post I was well aware of the risk of having bias creep in because DVS chose Hope, not Calvin. And if Derek had transferred to Calvin it would kill me to see him benching it (as I believe VandeStreek would do). But I would respect KVS for not playing DVS because to do so would show respect for the team and takes integrity. In my view the question does not turn on whether Derek works hard in practice or is a player superior to the one whose minutes he is taking. I think the question does turn on whether a coach should give those minutes to a player who chose to transfer in at mid-season. In my opinion the answer is no. If VanSolkema had transferred in the summer the answer is clearly yes.

[sac]

DC--good question, and your points of analysis didn't help me at all.

But the QOWI is the golden statistic these days so I guess you'd stick them pretty high up.  Boy what a ridiculous comparison in Regional games since only Chicago from the UAA would even count as a Regional game for Hope, Calvin and Kzoo.  Why oh why can't we just use QOWI for all D3 games?

Personally I'd go
Wooster
BW-----they've run away with the OAC and that doesn't happen
Wittenberg
Carnegie-Mellon
Hope
Calvin

[sac]

Sac:

In writing my post I was well aware of the risk of having bias creep in because DVS chose Hope, not Calvin. And if Derek had transferred to Calvin it would kill me to see him benching it (as I believe VandeStreek would do). But I would respect KVS for not playing DVS because to do so would show respect for the team and takes integrity. In my view the question does not turn on whether Derek works hard in practice or is a player superior to the one whose minutes he is taking. I think the question does turn on whether a coach should give those minutes to a player who chose to transfer in at mid-season. In my opinion the answer is no. If VanSolkema had transferred in the summer the answer is clearly yes.

Well lets flip it, had VS transferred to Calvin and Calvin just lost to Hope and essentially has its MIAA hopes out of their hands.  Would your opinion of KVS' integrity change if VS was now playing for Calvin?

I don't even think integrity is the issue, there is no integrity in business and if a new guy comes into an organzition and starts makeing contributions even though it might affect your personal stading in the organition.  You deal and move on.  Happens everyday in the real world.

Good real world life lesson for some guys.

[oldknight]

Well lets flip it, had VS transferred to Calvin and Calvin just lost to Hope and essentially has its MIAA hopes out of their hands.  Would your opinion of KVS' integrity change if VS was now playing for Calvin?

I don't even think integrity is the issue, there is no integrity in business and if a new guy comes into an organzition and starts makeing contributions even though it might affect your personal stading in the organition.  You deal and move on.  Happens everyday in the real world.

Yes, KVS would be wrong to play Derek right now if he had transferred to Calvin in January. It may happen a lot in the real world but that doesn't make it right for a D3 hoops coach to do that.

[Civic Minded]

Gentlemen --

There are WAY too many assumptions floating around here regarding DVS, and GVW's handling of same.  The bottom line is we don't know.  Period.  We don't know what led to Derek's transferring, we don't know what the team does or does not think about it, we don't know what prompted GVW to decide to play him.  We don't know, and anything else is speculation.

Now, speculation is fine, but what I'm reading is starting to turn into some character assasination, which I feel is not fair.  If you know all of the facts and want to espouse on it, fine.  But if you don't, then I recommend you be careful of what assumptions you are making, and who's character you're bashing.  From what I've been priveleged to know and learn of GVW, he handles himself with more integrity than most of us.  In this particular situation, he has put up with more than I can talk about.

Go ahead and debate -- I don't mean to make anyone stop.  But I would hope that the debate wouldn't cross the line.

Oh, and Kcrest, you might want to double check your sources...

[sac]

Goodnight

Some people wear Superman pajamas. Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas.

[KnightSlappy]

Knight Slappy---the 200 mile rule won't hurt Calvin as much as the 18 point loss back in Jan to Hope.  Thats still a little bit of a trump card to go with the slightly better regional record and QOWI.

Slightly better regional record?  I think that Calvin's 9-1 mark (.900) is better than Hope's 13-2 (.867) according to the percentages.  I just Hope the comittee does not overlook the fact that Calvin also won two of the same games that Hope did.

On a different note: I may be looking too much into this but if Calvin loses to Albion then Hope and Calvin would be tied atop the MIAA rankings.  And if some of your dreams come true to see the Calvin Hope regional tie, which school would host the tournament?  Conference record would be the same. Regional ranking would be the same. And they would each have a loss to #3 Albion and #1 Hope/Calvin.

[KnightSlappy]

Sorry answered my own question.  That would be the coin flip.

[Gregory Sager]

Looking at the path through this region, I think I'm rooting for Hope to get moved out of region even if they then don't get to host.

If Hope gets moved out of the region, there's only one direction that they can go: West, across the lake. In other words, if Hope isn't bracketed with the likes of Wooster, Bald Wally, Wittenberg, Calvin, Albion, etc., they'll be bracketed with the CCIW schools, the WIAC schools, and Lawrence. Is that your idea of the Anchor People catching a break from the selection committee, Andersdy?

[MIdoubleA]

Looking at the path through this region, I think I'm rooting for Hope to get moved out of region even if they then don't get to host.

If Hope gets moved out of the region, there's only one direction that they can go: West, across the lake. In other words, if Hope isn't bracketed with the likes of Wooster, Bald Wally, Wittenberg, Calvin, Albion, etc., they'll be bracketed with the CCIW schools, the WIAC schools, and Lawrence. Is that your idea of the Anchor People catching a break from the selection committee, Andersdy?

Anything is going to be easier than those 5.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Looking at the path through this region, I think I'm rooting for Hope to get moved out of region even if they then don't get to host.

If Hope gets moved out of the region, there's only one direction that they can go: West, across the lake. In other words, if Hope isn't bracketed with the likes of Wooster, Bald Wally, Wittenberg, Calvin, Albion, etc., they'll be bracketed with the CCIW schools, the WIAC schools, and Lawrence. Is that your idea of the Anchor People catching a break from the selection committee, Andersdy?

I gotta believe that many of us "Anchor People" consider avoiding Bald Wally a good thing - and it really has nothing to do with which teams we feel are better.  Heartbreak can last a lifetime  

[northb]

Good opinion Oldknight




Calvin is one 20 foot shot with 1.7 seconds away from wondering if they'll finish 2nd or 3rd.

So is Hope.