MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

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Or, better yet, ask any of the 2004-05 Knights if they considered that opening round game against Wheaton to be a cakewalk.

The feeling here is that if Wheaton had beaten Calvin then they probably would have ended up in the final four.  No one is saying that Wheaton was an easy game.  In fact, he is saying the opposite.  Wheaton was the best team Calvin had to face until meeting up with Albion for the chance to go to Salem a couple rounds earlier.  That was a very good Thunder team that was much better than a first round only team.

[AndersDY]

Dude, I triple-dog dare you to post that last sentence in CCIW Chat. 

I had that thought as I was typing that post actually. I'm sure I would get argument that anyone surviving the CCIW is going to be a tough test, but we're not talking about the difference between playing the Pistons or Bobcats here. I'm talking about Illinois and Wisconsin possible matchups=scary, matchups with the Ohio trio= super scary. Without some good luck, every game in the NCAAs should be assumed to be one of the most difficult of the year. And yes I haven't watched any Illinois/Wisconsin games this year besides Carthage at Hope, but I'd rather play an IWU team that has lost to a few different teams than a Wooster team that has only been taken down by one of the other Ohio superpowers, in double overtime...

If anyone from a CCIW or WIAC board is seeing this and taking it as a slight, I'll just go with my excuse that I want Hope and tCOW far away from each other on the bracket so they can both survive as long as possible.

[KnightSlappy]

I think many people are blowing the "easier route" debate out of proportion.  I dont think anyone is saying that the GL is the only good region and that the other regions are pushovers.  I think the sentiment is that if 5 of the top 8 teams in DIV III are in the GL as the d3hoops.com poll would suggest, then perhaps moving a few teams here and there would provide for a more even bracket.  Maybe some of the GL teams that would lose in round 1 or 2 could be elite eight teams elswhere that is all that is being said.

[ScotsFan]

I just think a #1 ranking is a lot for a team that doesn't have much to show...and wasn't in Salem last year.  Given their early (on a relative basis) exits that last two years, I can argue why they don't deserve it.

That is about as rediculous a statement as I have read in here in a while?!  Wooster doesn't deserve the #1 ranking because they weren't in Salem last year???  Yeah, that makes sense.  Yes Wooster made a relatively early exit last year, but they got shafted in their draw.  They met as many ranked teams in their 2 tournament games as York faced on their entire road to Salem (the answer is one, and BW, who Wooster beat conviningly in the 1st round was just out of the top 25).  And since you mentioned Wooster having early exits the last 2 years, I guess the Elite 8 is considered early?  Had Wooster not imploded in the last 5 minutes against JCU we would have been talking about back to back trips to Salem for Wooster.  Needless to say, I wouldn't call losing in the Elite 8 an early exit?!

Andersdy brought up a good point about how we could basically find questions about all the top teams in the region.  Since you're so quick to point out how Wooster or Witt hasn't played anybody, one could make the same argument about Calvin.   I would argue that Witt had a tougher non-conference schedule than Calvin or Hope.  And Wooster's non-conference schedule wasn't exactly a cupcake schedule.  Maybe next time you should try a little harder to back your statements up before you make them.

[AndersDY]

Thanks for bringing the reinforcements ScotsFan. I found the "what do we know about Wooster?" comment silly myself. Sure if we find out that tCOW ends up losing by 1 in their second tournament game, it will be disappointing that they didn't ride the hype to Salem, but for the time being right now, try to argue with this:

101.7 - 77.6

Oops, I've now drifted completely out of the MIAA, so um, GO ALBION!

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Go Knights!

[John Rusnak]

Bulldog: I agree it's easier in theory, but in most games I've watched against Crawford the defense is playing behind him.  And if you do keep the ball away from him, you obviously have to box out.  I realize that is also easier said than done, but if you get your ass into him, he will either have to reach over you and draw a foul, or he won't get the ball.

Realist: I could see that arguement.  I do think that the MIAA teams play very similar styles and therefore could all similarly struggle against other schools.  The reality is that the region as a whole is very strong, and clearly any of these top tier teams have the ability to beat the others on any given night.

DC: I missed the Stout game, so I will give them that, but the NJ teams are really not that good right now, so I don't consider that a quality win.  As for Witt, I will give you a half point on Rochester and a point for ONU, but Transylvania and Tufts are not quality wins, even if the poll says otherwise.  These are overrated schools that will lose in the first round of the tournament...unless of course they draw even weaker schools from the east.

And let me point out that I've never said that Witt and Woo aren't legit national contenders.  I've seen them enough to know that they are both extremely good and one of them really should make it to Salem...but it hasn't happened yet (in the last couple years) even though they were arguably good enough in the past.

To a few: The fact that Calvin and Wheaton played in the first round last year was absolutely atrocious.  It's a clear indication of the stupidity of the selection committee.

ScotsFan: I'm not saying that you have to be in Salem in the previous year in order to warrant a #1 ranking.  However, considering the strength of other schools in the region and country, to see Wooster at the top is hard to justify because they haven't beaten anybody.  I'd rather put Lawrence, who is undefeated, in that spot (although I think they aren't going to make it to Salem as well).  Or how about the team that beat Wooster earlier this year?  Yeah, they lost two games, but by 6 points total and to two teams that were hot at the time.  Or how about Hope?  Again losing to the hot streak Albion team and then by 1 to Calvin.

And I would hope that any national contending team playing in that conference would beat their opponents by an average of 25 a night as well.

[albionbritfan]

I was at the Kzoo game but was looking away from the action when the T was called so I honestly can't say one way or the other.

What I do know is that it is gameday and time to move on.  We know the teams have,  several days ago.  I also know I am glad I am not a referee-what a difficult, thankless job.  We need a "Hug a Referee Day" or something.

As for the game tonight at Calvin, very much looking forward to it and I hope Albion brings its best.  It's a winnable game and one with great implications.

And finally as to whether Wooster is the #1, I've got no one's back on this.  I can see arguments for and against, but honestly who knows for sure and more importantly who cares?  This isn't the BCBS (thankfully).  We have a tournament to sort this thing out and winning that is far more impressive.

[AndersDY]

So Witt has lost twice to their only good opponent, so they're no one yet... and Witt is the two best wins Wooster has to show, so a big nobody there... so of course BW can't hang their hat on being the only team to beat Wooster... Clearly there are no impressive wins by anyone this year: everyone sucks.

Are you going to argue who has the least impressive loss, or the most impressive wins...? No team is as good as their best game or as bad as their worst game, but I think a combined 5 losses, only 2 of which didn't come from within the trio, makes enough of a case for those Ohio teams until they get a chance to show themselves on the floor in the NCAAs.  

[David Collinge]

Give it up, Andersdy; there's really no point in arguing with someone who doesn't consider an 11-point victory at Transylvania to be a "quality win."  That's just absurd.

[realist]

A-19:  Oldknight has the usage of there, and their correct.  One idicates a place, and one a group of people.  Careful, your school ties might be showing.
Allfirst:  We all sort of pledged never to bring up the "game that shall never be mentioned" again.  However, it is very interesting that you mark down this years representative "from the state that shall not be mentioned" for the same flaw that existed in the MIAA representative in the above "not to be mentioned" game.  One can only conclude using your logic that if the 06 team is over-rated because of a weak conference, and a weak schedule than so was the 95 team "that shall not be mentioned".  You are among the first to defend the team "that shall not be mentioned".   You need to develop some consistancy in your arguements

[Titan Q]

I've talked to coaches who have seen Transylvania play, and based on that feedback, I'm convinced that Transy is a very good team.  The Pioneers are 10-2 in a pretty good HCAC right now and an impressive 19-4 overall.

Any suggestion that a win @ Transylvania is not impressive is silly.

[John Rusnak]

Obviously I haven't seen Trans play, so I'm basing that call on the past.  Given the support for them from more than a few of you, I will concede that they must be pretty good this year.

As for consistency in my arguments, I would say that's a little hard, only because I tend to argue certain points at certain times.

If I was picking one core stance, it would be that this region is loaded, Witt, Woo, BW, Hope, and Calvin are all legit Final Four teams, and other than a few teams in the midwest, nobody can compete night in and night out with them.

But that makes for a dull argument over and over again (other than when I'm fuming about how screwed over they all get in their seedings for the tournament), so I choose to argue different points.

So, I think it's fair to say it's hard to know that Witt and Woo are really two of the best 5 teams in the country because of their limited play...but to make the opposite argument, this is division 3 and there aren't many teams out there at all that have played a truly national schedule.

[John Rusnak]

And by the way, anybody who knows me knows I love to stir the pot...which I really haven't even started doing this year.

[NW Hope Fan]

 We need a "Hug a Referee Day" or something.

Another time I wish I could give Karma... Good one!   

Sombody give the guy some Karma!!!