MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[oldknight]

Calvin is considered 201 miles from Wheaton.

You would be right to be upset at this criteria.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the NCAA rule to read that if the two teams each travel less than 200 miles to play each other at a neutral site (as was the case with the Calvin/Wheaton game at DeVos) that the game then counts as inregion? The spirit of the rule would then be met.

[kcrest]

If I remember I'll be in my Hope Basketball hat and probalby wearing my Albion sweatshirt.  Unless it gets to hot.

Quite the sartorial combo.  Orange pants or Briton gold to go with it?

[sac]

The new highway doesn't help.  I took it last week and it feels like your backtracking when you get off at Broadmoor.  I took Burton to Chicago drive to I-196 home and it felt shorter.

What I think is stupid is using the map program the NCAA uses to get to Wheaton.........you get off I-94 in New Buffalo and take US12 for a few miles and get back on I80/90 in Indiana.

NO ONE in there right mind would take that route.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the NCAA rule to read that if the two teams each travel less than 200 miles to play each other at a neutral site (as was the case with the Calvin/Wheaton game at DeVos) that the game then counts as inregion? The spirit of the rule would then be met.

You would think.

[kcrest]

Yep Burton to Chicago Drive might be shorter.  Point being, like you said, the NCAA uses a map program that isn't necessarily accurate!  And that 1 mile ends up hurting Calvin.  But the NCAA isn't always known for making good sense.

The new highway doesn't help.  I took it last week and it feels like your backtracking when you get off at Broadmoor.  I took Burton to Chicago drive home and it felt shorter.

What I think is stupid is using the map program the NCAA uses to get to Wheaton.........you get off I-196 in New Buffalo and take US12 for a few miles and get back on I80/90 in Indiana.

NO ONE in there right mind would take that route.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the NCAA rule to read that if the two teams each travel less than 200 miles to play each other at a neutral site (as was the case with the Calvin/Wheaton game at DeVos) that the game then counts as inregion? The spirit of the rule would then be met.

You would think.

[Gregory Sager]

Can anyone out their spell "Baldwin-Wallace?"

Sure, but why bother when it's so much more fun to call them Bald Wally? 

[tniem]

The new highway doesn't help.  I took it last week and it feels like your backtracking when you get off at Broadmoor.  I took Burton to Chicago drive to I-196 home and it felt shorter.

What I think is stupid is using the map program the NCAA uses to get to Wheaton.........you get off I-94 in New Buffalo and take US12 for a few miles and get back on I80/90 in Indiana.

NO ONE in there right mind would take that route.

My understanding in seeing some of Pat's posts is that, indeed no one would ever take that route.  But it is available.  Even if it takes much longer. 

Seems to me, time of the trip would be more important.  And I really like the neutral court trip idea.  Makes tons of sense for me.  And I would guess that the Chicago schools would then host a Michigan-Wisconsin tournament quite often.  Probably the reason it has not happened (not necessarily our example exclusively but that could apply to a lot of cross regional schools).

[Gregory Sager]

I will scream if they put two MIAA teams against each other in the first round.

It won't happen, John. The D3 handbook says, "Teams from the same conference do not have to play each other in the first round as long as geographic proximity is maintained." In other words, they're going to circumvent having Hope and Calvin, or Hope and Albion, or Albion and Calvin, play each other in the first round unless geographic concerns (read: plane money) comes into play. Since the Michigan schools aren't that geographically isolated, there's no reason to schedule them against each other in the first round.

[Gregory Sager]

The feeling here is that if Wheaton had beaten Calvin then they probably would have ended up in the final four.  No one is saying that Wheaton was an easy game.  In fact, he is saying the opposite.  Wheaton was the best team Calvin had to face until meeting up with Albion for the chance to go to Salem a couple rounds earlier.  That was a very good Thunder team that was much better than a first round only team.

Actually, he was saying the opposite. Slappy cited Calvin's path to the sectionals last season as an example of what he called, and I quote, an "easier route". And he doesn't have Andersdy's self-confessed ulterior motive of rooting for two different Great Lakes schools that he'd like to keep as far apart as possible for as long as possible.

[tommygun]

For those complaining about Hope falling below Carnegie Mellon I understand your feeling that way.  However, CMU lost at the buzzer this week to a team ranked third in its region. 

Furthermore, CMU is currently 7th in the nation in the supposedly all important QQWI (by the way a number of spots higher than the next closest in region team, which I believe is Wooster at 11 or 12 although I don't have it in front of me.)  Also Carnegie Mellon's overall record is 18-4 and one of those wasn't a region loss.  They've beaten Princeton, won at Christopher Newport, Union, Rochester, NYU, beat WashU twice.  All regionally ranked, except Princeton who is 5-2 in the Ivy League.

Although this is not a team with a national pedigree it is a team that plays in one of the two or three best conferences in the country this season which it is winning with two buzzer beating losses (the other being at Chicago) on its resume.  This is why they are still ranked ahead of the Michigan schools.  I'm not saying its right I'm just saying there is a very convincing argument to be made for why CMU is as high as they are.

[realist]

It is interesting that while us posters are getting quite exercised about the 200 mile rule it really doesn't seem to be a relevant factor for KVS, as either coach or AD.  Rather than staying in region he is willing to play games against D2 schools, and travel to exotic places like Denver over the holidays versus staying in region to beat up teams that don't challenge his guys to get better.  Back to the question is it better to play a tough or soft schedule relying on  W/L to get you in.  Based on this weeks regional rankings it appears the tougher schedule route isn't a handicap (provided it gets you ready for conference games).  Calvin & Hope benefit  from the CCIW/MIAA matchup whether they get credit for it or not.  Obviously at least 2 CCIW schools feel the same when they are willing to travel to GR.  

[KnightSlappy]

The feeling here is that if Wheaton had beaten Calvin then they probably would have ended up in the final four.  No one is saying that Wheaton was an easy game.  In fact, he is saying the opposite.  Wheaton was the best team Calvin had to face until meeting up with Albion for the chance to go to Salem a couple rounds earlier.  That was a very good Thunder team that was much better than a first round only team.

Actually, he was saying the opposite. Slappy cited Calvin's path to the sectionals last season as an example of what he called, and I quote, an "easier route". And he doesn't have Andersdy's self-confessed ulterior motive of rooting for two different Great Lakes schools that he'd like to keep as far apart as possible for as long as possible.

Actually Ziggy was correct, as he usually is.  I said that once Calvin got past a tough Wheaton team their path was relatively easy until the Albion game.

[Pat Coleman]

The new highway doesn't help.  I took it last week and it feels like your backtracking when you get off at Broadmoor.  I took Burton to Chicago drive to I-196 home and it felt shorter.

What I think is stupid is using the map program the NCAA uses to get to Wheaton.........you get off I-94 in New Buffalo and take US12 for a few miles and get back on I80/90 in Indiana.

NO ONE in there right mind would take that route.

For goodness sakes, nobody says you have to take the route. It's a way of measuring that is the most inclusive for all parties. If you were to restrict the possible paths to solely ones that primarily use major interstates, a lot fewer games would be in-region.

[NW Hope Fan]

The new highway doesn't help.  I took it last week and it feels like your backtracking when you get off at Broadmoor.  I took Burton to Chicago drive to I-196 home and it felt shorter.

What I think is stupid is using the map program the NCAA uses to get to Wheaton.........you get off I-94 in New Buffalo and take US12 for a few miles and get back on I80/90 in Indiana.

NO ONE in there right mind would take that route.

For goodness sakes, nobody says you have to take the route. It's a way of measuring that is the most inclusive for all parties. If you were to restrict the possible paths to solely ones that primarily use major interstates, a lot fewer games would be in-region.

Obviously the NCAA has to have a cut-off somewhere, but a mile??? Also, there has to be teams that their 200 mile trip on a bus takes much longer than others (i.e. driving trough the mountains, or around a lake as compared to a straight Midwest shot on an interstate.)

I'm sure the Michigan teams are not the only ones isolated (i.e. surrounded by the Great Lakes), but how about 200 miles as the crow flies. Holland to Wheaton is only 121 miles. 
And Calvin to Wheaton is 150 or so...

Kind of a moot point but http://www.indo.com/distance/ is kind of a cool site.

[RastaRob]

Albion     28          Calvin   39    1:30 remaining

Hope  33           Alma  21   4 minutes remaining

[RastaRob]

Halftime at Calvin

Calvin 41                Albion  28