MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[ziggy]

Olivet 84 starters 135 minutes.  Calvin 61 starters 108 minutes.

Calvin was pretty much out of that game at halftime,   not a good example.


The other two were close losses.


I've been watching the MIAA closely for 20+ years now, no one has underachieved the last couple years in this league.

I would argue tha Calvin's team of 3 years ago with Griffin, Veldhouse, Mantel and Englesma, along with some good role players probably underachieved at 9-5 in the league.

I would argue that the 2005 team overachieved. Keeping a tally is really a useless exercise.

[CalKnight60]

I don't disagree Ziggy....i was simply responding to SAC's statement

[sac]

Olivet 84 starters 135 minutes.  Calvin 61 starters 108 minutes.

Calvin was pretty much out of that game at halftime,   not a good example.


The other two were close losses.


I've been watching the MIAA closely for 20+ years now, no one has underachieved the last couple years in this league.

I would argue tha Calvin's team of 3 years ago with Griffin, Veldhouse, Mantel and Englesma, along with some good role players probably underachieved at 9-5 in the league.

Thats a tough one because Calvin lost 4 games to Hope and Albion who both finished ahead of them and had significantly better overall records on the season.  Three of those losses were by 3, 5 and 1 points.  Calvin entered MIAA play 5-5.........their 5th loss in the MIAA and really the only "bad" loss came in the final game of the season at Olivet, and I think that was Olivet's last game at Upton Gymnasium and for standings purposes was completely irrelevant to Calvin, they could not catch Albion for 2nd.

Then Calvin beat Olivet soundly in the MIAA tournament, and then Albion soundly after having lost both meetings to the Brits earlier.


Thats a tough label calling that team underachieving I think.

[realist]

Olivet 84 starters 135 minutes.  Calvin 61 starters 108 minutes.

Calvin was pretty much out of that game at halftime,   not a good example.


The other two were close losses.


I've been watching the MIAA closely for 20+ years now, no one has underachieved the last couple years in this league.

Perhaps you are right about the Olivet game.  Personally I thought KVS should have left the starters in the entire game as punishment they underachieved that much.  .  Letting the starters sit sort of sends the message you are cool with getting blown out.  They made the mess let them clean it up or at least own the loss.

The point remains saving your starters "to have them fresh at the end of the game" sounds like a great strategy.  To bad it didn't work when it really was needed.

[oldknight]

'Tis a sad night in Spartan country. A combination of poor free throw shooting, unforced errors, and an inability to finish shots around the basket was excruciatingly painful to watch. The only things more disappointing than MSU's play were 1) the qualty of the officiating and 2) the incredibly bad performance of the CBS broadcast team. Jim Nantz and Clark Kellogg often were confused or simply wrong about the events on the floor. Kellogg in particular failed to point out several obvious missed calls, the most blatant of which was the mugging at mid-court with 5 seconds left when Butler was trying to foul. Kellogg hastily and laughably labeled it "no foul." But then he went to school in Columbus so I'm not surprised. His performance doesn't exactly make me pine for the halcyon days of Billy Packer but Kellogg is hardly an improvement.

As for MSU's coaching decisions, what can you say? Izzo's predetermination of which players may and may not shoot led to those players expressing frustration and bewilderment with their coach. Izzo's substitution scripts are also too predetermined and he is far too controlling, leading to a lack of creativity. Tom must learn to relinquish control thereby allowing players to become effective floor leaders. This Spartan team never reached its full potential and clearly underachieved.

[Happy Calvin Guy]

When did Aaron Winkle get hired to be the head coach for Butler?

[almcguirejr]

The TV camera caught Izzo using the" foot stomp" pretty early in the first half.  Raymar Morgan was devastated.  I could see it in his body language. 

[ziggy]

When did Aaron Winkle get hired to be the head coach for Butler?

I was wondering the same thing. All week I was thinking that Brad Stevens looked very familiar to me for some reason and Aaron Winkle was the only name I could come up with.

[GoKnights68]

Olivet 84 starters 135 minutes.  Calvin 61 starters 108 minutes.

Calvin was pretty much out of that game at halftime,   not a good example.


The other two were close losses.


I've been watching the MIAA closely for 20+ years now, no one has underachieved the last couple years in this league.

I would argue tha Calvin's team of 3 years ago with Griffin, Veldhouse, Mantel and Englesma, along with some good role players probably underachieved at 9-5 in the league.

Thats a tough one because Calvin lost 4 games to Hope and Albion who both finished ahead of them and had significantly better overall records on the season.  Three of those losses were by 3, 5 and 1 points.  Calvin entered MIAA play 5-5.........their 5th loss in the MIAA and really the only "bad" loss came in the final game of the season at Olivet, and I think that was Olivet's last game at Upton Gymnasium and for standings purposes was completely irrelevant to Calvin, they could not catch Albion for 2nd.

Then Calvin beat Olivet soundly in the MIAA tournament, and then Albion soundly after having lost both meetings to the Brits earlier.


Thats a tough label calling that team underachieving I think.

From someone that saw a majority of Calvin's games that season, sac, I would call that 2008 season underachieving, in my opinion.

After coming out hot the first two weeks of the season, including beating the eventual National Champions Washington U...Calvin completely flopped, despite having a solid back-court with Griffin and Veldhouse and a nice front court with Mantel and Englesma down-low.  That teams' defense played very poorly compared to past Calvin's teams.  Offense stood around too much as well.  But those 3 losses to Hope that season was largely due to Hope just being the obvious better team.


But then again I think Calvin in 2006 overachieved.  They went 13-1 in the league, which was basically Meckes, Draayer, and Trewella leading a bunch of freshmen.    ...It can go both ways.

[realist]

When one's opponent does not score for over ten minutes, and you fail to capitalize on that golden opportunity one deserves to lose.
Well it serves Izzo right to  get beaten as a coach if he has started taking advice from, and is patterning his game after KVS.

[sac]

'Tis a sad night in Spartan country. A combination of poor free throw shooting, unforced errors, and an inability to finish shots around the basket was excruciatingly painful to watch. The only things more disappointing than MSU's play were 1) the qualty of the officiating and 2) the incredibly bad performance of the CBS broadcast team.

3)  The necessity to have the police presence needed to keep things under control at 'Cedar Village'..........and the news reporting on it that everything was ok ....."'for now', but we'll keep you updated"

[Mr. Ypsi]

'Tis a sad night in Spartan country. A combination of poor free throw shooting, unforced errors, and an inability to finish shots around the basket was excruciatingly painful to watch. The only things more disappointing than MSU's play were 1) the qualty of the officiating and 2) the incredibly bad performance of the CBS broadcast team. Jim Nantz and Clark Kellogg often were confused or simply wrong about the events on the floor. Kellogg in particular failed to point out several obvious missed calls, the most blatant of which was the mugging at mid-court with 5 seconds left when Butler was trying to foul. Kellogg hastily and laughably labeled it "no foul." But then he went to school in Columbus so I'm not surprised. His performance doesn't exactly make me pine for the halcyon days of Billy Packer but Kellogg is hardly an improvement.

As for MSU's coaching decisions, what can you say? Izzo's predetermination of which players may and may not shoot led to those players expressing frustration and bewilderment with their coach. Izzo's substitution scripts are also too predetermined and he is far too controlling, leading to a lack of creativity. Tom must learn to relinquish control thereby allowing players to become effective floor leaders. This Spartan team never reached its full potential and clearly underachieved.

Oh, that Michigan could reach/regain a status such that reaching the Final Four is clearly underachieving!

Tom Izzo has taken MSU to the FF SIX times in the last 12 years - I suspect he has forgotten more about both basketball and the coaching thereof than any of us will ever know.  If you decide to run him out of town, I bet there is a school about 70 miles to the southeast who might be willing to take him in!  (In fact, two of them, and one already dresses in green and white! )

[goodknight]

'Tis a sad night in Spartan country. A combination of poor free throw shooting, unforced errors, and an inability to finish shots around the basket was excruciatingly painful to watch. The only things more disappointing than MSU's play were 1) the qualty of the officiating and 2) the incredibly bad performance of the CBS broadcast team. Jim Nantz and Clark Kellogg often were confused or simply wrong about the events on the floor. Kellogg in particular failed to point out several obvious missed calls, the most blatant of which was the mugging at mid-court with 5 seconds left when Butler was trying to foul. Kellogg hastily and laughably labeled it "no foul." But then he went to school in Columbus so I'm not surprised. His performance doesn't exactly make me pine for the halcyon days of Billy Packer but Kellogg is hardly an improvement.

As for MSU's coaching decisions, what can you say? Izzo's predetermination of which players may and may not shoot led to those players expressing frustration and bewilderment with their coach. Izzo's substitution scripts are also too predetermined and he is far too controlling, leading to a lack of creativity. Tom must learn to relinquish control thereby allowing players to become effective floor leaders. This Spartan team never reached its full potential and clearly underachieved.

Oh, that Michigan could reach/regain a status such that reaching the Final Four is clearly underachieving!

Tom Izzo has taken MSU to the FF SIX times in the last 12 years - I suspect he has forgotten more about both basketball and the coaching thereof than any of us will ever know.  If you decide to run him out of town, I bet there is a school about 70 miles to the southeast who might be willing to take him in!  (In fact, two of them, and one already dresses in green and white! )

Chuck, there may be some tongue-in-cheek commentary going on here, whose aim might be to help a particular poster catch a clue.  Just a guess.

[Mr. Ypsi]

'Tis a sad night in Spartan country. A combination of poor free throw shooting, unforced errors, and an inability to finish shots around the basket was excruciatingly painful to watch. The only things more disappointing than MSU's play were 1) the qualty of the officiating and 2) the incredibly bad performance of the CBS broadcast team. Jim Nantz and Clark Kellogg often were confused or simply wrong about the events on the floor. Kellogg in particular failed to point out several obvious missed calls, the most blatant of which was the mugging at mid-court with 5 seconds left when Butler was trying to foul. Kellogg hastily and laughably labeled it "no foul." But then he went to school in Columbus so I'm not surprised. His performance doesn't exactly make me pine for the halcyon days of Billy Packer but Kellogg is hardly an improvement.

As for MSU's coaching decisions, what can you say? Izzo's predetermination of which players may and may not shoot led to those players expressing frustration and bewilderment with their coach. Izzo's substitution scripts are also too predetermined and he is far too controlling, leading to a lack of creativity. Tom must learn to relinquish control thereby allowing players to become effective floor leaders. This Spartan team never reached its full potential and clearly underachieved.

Oh, that Michigan could reach/regain a status such that reaching the Final Four is clearly underachieving!

Tom Izzo has taken MSU to the FF SIX times in the last 12 years - I suspect he has forgotten more about both basketball and the coaching thereof than any of us will ever know.  If you decide to run him out of town, I bet there is a school about 70 miles to the southeast who might be willing to take him in!  (In fact, two of them, and one already dresses in green and white! )

Chuck, there may be some tongue-in-cheek commentary going on here, whose aim might be to help a particular poster catch a clue.  Just a guess.

Yeah, I considered that possibility.  But my younger son, the bball fanatic, keeps insisting that Izzo is the reason MSU lost yesterday!  (Yeah, he coached them to miss the seven free throws in the second half - well, he probably did coach them to miss the last one! - and to give up 20 points off turnovers. )  Just in case OK was serious, I wanted to provide some pre-emptive defense!

[goodknight]

'Tis a sad night in Spartan country. A combination of poor free throw shooting, unforced errors, and an inability to finish shots around the basket was excruciatingly painful to watch. The only things more disappointing than MSU's play were 1) the qualty of the officiating and 2) the incredibly bad performance of the CBS broadcast team. Jim Nantz and Clark Kellogg often were confused or simply wrong about the events on the floor. Kellogg in particular failed to point out several obvious missed calls, the most blatant of which was the mugging at mid-court with 5 seconds left when Butler was trying to foul. Kellogg hastily and laughably labeled it "no foul." But then he went to school in Columbus so I'm not surprised. His performance doesn't exactly make me pine for the halcyon days of Billy Packer but Kellogg is hardly an improvement.

As for MSU's coaching decisions, what can you say? Izzo's predetermination of which players may and may not shoot led to those players expressing frustration and bewilderment with their coach. Izzo's substitution scripts are also too predetermined and he is far too controlling, leading to a lack of creativity. Tom must learn to relinquish control thereby allowing players to become effective floor leaders. This Spartan team never reached its full potential and clearly underachieved.

Oh, that Michigan could reach/regain a status such that reaching the Final Four is clearly underachieving!

Tom Izzo has taken MSU to the FF SIX times in the last 12 years - I suspect he has forgotten more about both basketball and the coaching thereof than any of us will ever know.  If you decide to run him out of town, I bet there is a school about 70 miles to the southeast who might be willing to take him in!  (In fact, two of them, and one already dresses in green and white! )

Chuck, there may be some tongue-in-cheek commentary going on here, whose aim might be to help a particular poster catch a clue.  Just a guess.

Yeah, I considered that possibility.  But my younger son, the bball fanatic, keeps insisting that Izzo is the reason MSU lost yesterday!  (Yeah, he coached them to miss the seven free throws in the second half - well, he probably did coach them to miss the last one! - and to give up 20 points off turnovers. )  Just in case OK was serious, I wanted to provide some pre-emptive defense!

Multiple eye-roll emoticons, instead of one, may have helped.