MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Knight2Day]

My biggest fear is that Calvin picks up a couple D1 transfers this summer and really throws a wrench into the playing times of current players on the roster and the incoming players who commited to a school, regardless of how much they weigh or scored in hs

Unless Byker has allowed Calvin to recently adopt the athletic "leadership grant" philosophy like some other institutions *cough*cough*, I doubt there will be too many Div. 1 transfers coming to Calvin.

[Gregory Sager]

I think that in the end the fact that Brink is a Christian Reformed kid from a Christian Reformed high school and whose parents are Calvin alumni trumped everything.

That almost never happens. 

I think that the idea of pursuing Brink was legitimate from NPU's point of view, in that he's not a western Michigan product but rather a suburban Chicagolander.

I definitely agree. I just thought it was funny because the percentage of Calvin students who would respond to the question "why did you choose Calvin?" with "because I'm CRC and my parents went here" almost seems to be 99.9%.  (I was in the .1%)

I can identify with that, because if you change the names it's similar to a lot of what has gone on at North Park for generations. At NPU, it's very often: "Why did you choose North Park?" "Because I'm Evangelical Covenant and my parents went here." The difference is that North Park's Covies are very much aware that, even though they are the default stereotype of the school, they are only one subset of the larger whole as far as the NPU student body is concerned (they currently make up only 25% of the undergraduates -- and they are underrepresented among the student-athletes and are almost entirely absent in terms of the commuter-student population). Seems like the Christian Reformed kids have more of a monopoly on Calvin's identity than the Covie kids do on NPU's.

I may be old fashioned because I'm not a big fan of the youtube "look at me mentality".  Odds are that either he, or a family member put it together, which is a little much (and could be a potential warning sign, just speculating) but it is the world we now exist in.

It may be that the egomania that turns you off among modern players is behind Brink's YouTube video, but that's not the only reason why such videos exist. As you indicate, it might be a family member or a friend that put it together, and sometimes that's done without the player's consent. More importantly, it might have been assembled with Brink's consent in order to market him to potential recruiters. Remember, he was being looked at by a couple of D2 schools, and it's my understanding that they both came into the picture rather late. YouTube can be a useful tool to get the attention of college coaches -- I know a number of coaches who admit to looking at YouTube videos, although I would guess that the smart ones take them with a grain of salt.

[arena]

My biggest fear is that Calvin picks up a couple D1 transfers this summer and really throws a wrench into the playing times of current players on the roster and the incoming players who commited to a school, regardless of how much they weigh or scored in hs

Unless Byker has allowed Calvin to recently adopt the athletic "leadership grant" philosophy like some other institutions *cough*cough*, I doubt there will be too many Div. 1 transfers coming to Calvin.

What does one have to do to get this grant?

[hoopdreams]

I suppose the tongue-in-cheek answer would be: be better than everyone else on your current roster.

If YouTube is a recruiting tool than Spencer Jennings should have alerted U of M's coaches to his spot, they could use a shooter or 2

[Knight2Day]

My biggest fear is that Calvin picks up a couple D1 transfers this summer and really throws a wrench into the playing times of current players on the roster and the incoming players who commited to a school, regardless of how much they weigh or scored in hs

Unless Byker has allowed Calvin to recently adopt the athletic "leadership grant" philosophy like some other institutions *cough*cough*, I doubt there will be too many Div. 1 transfers coming to Calvin.

What does one have to do to get this grant?

There are a few players in recent memory I think you could talk to in order to find out that kind of information....maybe some bigger name ones, you wouldn't want to talk to the run of the mill role player, they aren't true "leaders." Only the star athletes are capable of being those types of role models for the college community 

[hoopdreams]

Is it coincidental that these "leaders" are/were named team captains even if the demeanor in which they carry themselves on and off the floor, is less than ideal? (at times, of course).  If people only knew......

[hoopdreams]

before someone chimes in to say that the players vote for captains, the coaching staff ALWAYS have the final say in who is actually named. It's an old coaching "trick" in case some "loser" gets voted in by his/her teammates.

[realist]

My biggest fear is that Calvin picks up a couple D1 transfers this summer and really throws a wrench into the playing times of current players on the roster and the incoming players who commited to a school, regardless of how much they weigh or scored in hs

+ karma for the lol. 

[RFMichigan]

I may be old fashioned because I'm not a big fan of the youtube "look at me mentality".  Odds are that either he, or a family member put it together, which is a little much (and could be a potential warning sign, just speculating) but it is the world we now exist in.

There was a youtube video of a certain pg/shooting guard who played hs ball in Michigan and now plays in the A10 that was put together by a classmate of his for his (not the player's) senior English assignment or some such project. Speculation was that a side benefit of the video was that it allowed BCAM voters, who normally would never be able to see the kid's shooting prowess, to "see it for themselves". Whether or not that was any kind of determining factor in the subsequent Mr. Basketball award is, of course, impossible to determine, but the video did have a ton of hits and is kind of fun to watch if only to watch the crowd's reaction to some of the 3's.

Unless Byker has allowed Calvin to recently adopt the athletic "leadership grant" philosophy like some other institutions *cough*cough*, I doubt there will be too many Div. 1 transfers coming to Calvin.

What does one have to do to get this grant?

There are a few players in recent memory I think you could talk to in order to find out that kind of information....maybe some bigger name ones, you wouldn't want to talk to the run of the mill role player, they aren't true "leaders." Only the star athletes are capable of being those types of role models for the college community 

And then there is the boarding high school known for its uncanny ability to draw top basketball talent which does not give athletic scholarships but gives what they call "Leadership scholarships". As my friend says, "They are given to leaders . . . leaders in scoring, leaders in rebounds, leaders in  . . ."

[hoopdreams]

Great insight, RFM.  Do you think BR is rethinking his decision to go to  the X, or possibly leaving with the man who recruited him?  Why isn't he in maize and blue?

There is a difference between putting a highlight video for a class and placing it on youtube for the world to see, but I get your point. Are coaches too busy or too lazy to watch an entire game film now? 5-10 years ago, they said "if it's not a game film, we toss it in the garbage".

BR can shoot this piss out of it but were the numbers misleading?  Is it a feat to ave 35 points per game when you're shooting 25-30 times a game?  If a guys double and triple teamed, are any of those shots good shots?  The video is great but the best was watching him in AAU where essentially no half court defense is played, when he's in the zone...wow. 

[RFMichigan]

 

Great insight, RFM.  Do you think BR is rethinking his decision to go to  the X, or possibly leaving with the man who recruited him?  Why isn't he in maize and blue?

There is a difference between putting a highlight video for a class and placing it on youtube for the world to see, but I get your point. Are coaches too busy or too lazy to watch an entire game film now? 5-10 years ago, they said "if it's not a game film, we toss it in the garbage".

BR can shoot this piss out of it but were the numbers misleading?  Is it a feat to ave 35 points per game when you're shooting 25-30 times a game?  If a guys double and triple teamed, are any of those shots good shots?  The video is great but the best was watching him in AAU where essentially no half court defense is played, when he's in the zone...wow. 

Hoopdreams: To respond to your points (which are pretty much on target to me):

Brad had a lot of soul-searching going on after this past season at X, but he's committed to X and just trying to get healthy from his injury which bothered him the last month or so of the season. I personally would have loved to see him at Ann Arbor, but remember that he chose to go to X during the early signing period which was before his crazy senior season. I would say that Brad was recruited primarily on his AAU performances.

I'm really intrigued by kids who score a ton at "smaller" high schools in Michigan and what happens to them in college. (Someone mentioned one earlier on this board who is currently at Hope, I think.) I won't rehash all the hoopla about BR's score-fest now, but I will admit that I had a lot of mixed emotions while watching some of his gargantuan-point games.

I am curious about what weight MIAA coaches put on a recruit's a) high school career, b) the competition a recruit played against, and c) AAU play. I'm also curious how much a coach (assistant ot otherwise) actually sees a recruit in person and how much film of a recruit they watch. I certainly hope that coaches aren't basing much of anything on a youtube video. (Even I would shoot 100% on one of those!)

The nice thing that MIAA and other dIII coaches don't have to worry about is a "scholarship limit". They can bring in as many kids as they want (see North Central over on the Midwest board) if they're willing to come and sort them out by actually watching them play in practices once they're at the school.

[hoopdreams]

Thank you again RFM- I will always root for a kid that works his butt off ( Brad's shooting workouts are lengendary, at least to me) and stays true to a commitment, even when things get tough.

Too many kids, at every level, bolt at the first sign of distress, setback or frustration.  Switching schools before the 1st game of your freshman season, although Hutton and jennings could be a really tough cover?  Alex Legion anyone???

[Mr. Ypsi]

So far the Tigers are killing the Twins.  After 2.5 innings, Liriano is already gone (gave up 7 runs in 1.2 innings), while Justin has a 1-hit shutout going!

[Gregory Sager]

There is a difference between putting a highlight video for a class and placing it on youtube for the world to see, but I get your point. Are coaches too busy or too lazy to watch an entire game film now? 5-10 years ago, they said "if it's not a game film, we toss it in the garbage".

You're reading way too much into what I said earlier about Brink's YouTube video, hoopdreams. A YouTube video can be a personal marketing tool, but it's highly unlikely that it'll ever be a deal-maker. Unless a coach is brain-dead he's never going to pursue a recruit based only upon a homemade video on a public-access site that can be edited and adulterated so thoroughly that it's the basketball equivalent of an Oliver Stone film. At best, you can pique his interest and get him to investigate you further.

What I said was that a YouTube video can be an attention-getting device, in much the same way that an unrecruited high-school player can get a coach's attention by sending him a stat sheet or clippings from the local press. As someone said earlier, you can at least tell from his YouTube video that Brink has a consistent and smooth release, regardless of the defensive coverage or the shooting spot on the floor. But, aside from something like that, you really can't tell anything, because there's no context to a YouTube video -- or, rather, the context is whatever the creator has edited it to be.

YouTube videos, press clippings, awards, stats, etc., are never going to be substitutes for good old-fashioned shoe leather. If you're a coach, you walk to your car, you drive your car to a gym, and you evaluate the player by sitting in that gym and watching him play. That's not just the old-school way to do it, it's the all-school way to do it. I dare you to find a college coach who doesn't put a premium upon firsthand impressions in terms of recruiting. And, if you want to supplement that (or if you can't see the kid play firsthand because he's out-of-state and you don't have the budget or the window of opportunity to see one of his games), you request full game tapes. That way you're seeing forty minutes of unedited footage of the kid doing all of the things that are asked of a basketball player (or attempting to do them and failing, or not attempting them at all) rather than five minutes of selectively-edited YouTube footage of his three-point shooting or his prettiest passes or his dunks.

Give the college coaches of America a little credit for knowing the right way to do their job.

I am curious about what weight MIAA coaches put on a recruit's a) high school career, b) the competition a recruit played against, and c) AAU play. I'm also curious how much a coach (assistant ot otherwise) actually sees a recruit in person and how much film of a recruit they watch. I certainly hope that coaches aren't basing much of anything on a youtube video. (Even I would shoot 100% on one of those!)

I can't speak for MIAA coaches, but I doubt that they're a different breed than everybody else in the coaching fraternity. And I've never spoken to a coach who believes that anything else trumps firsthand observation. He may not be the one who is doing the firsthand observation -- sometimes a head coach simply can't see every prospect, and thus he has to learn to trust the ability of his assistant or assistants to evaluate a prospect firsthand -- but the ol' eyeball test will nevertheless be his first and foremost method of evaluation. Having said that, a good coach knows the context of that observation, too: Is the opponent that night weak (either the opponent who's guarding the prospect, or the opposing team in general)? Is it AAU play as opposed to a high-school game (i.e., are discipline and defense taking a backseat to flashiness and ego in this context)? Does the prospect's performance seem to jibe with his overall stats, or does it appear to be anomalous in either direction (i.e., does this seem to be an over-his-head night or an off night)?

Game film would probably rank second on the list, and the more film, the better -- just as you stand a better chance of evaluating a prospect properly if you see him play twice, or three times, or four times, than if you only see him play once.

Generally speaking, a good college basketball coach doesn't take nights off during the season, or he takes very few of them. If he's not scouting an opponent, he's sitting in a high-school gym somewhere looking for his future players. Recruiting is the lifeblood of college basketball, and in order to recruit properly you have to sit in the stands and watch the prospects yourself -- or have assistants whose judgments you trust do that for you.

As I said, a YouTube video is at best nothing more than an attention-getting device that a player uses to get noticed, and no college coach worth his salt bases his judgment upon one of them.

[hoopdreams]

Who's reading way too much into what is being said?