MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Gregory Sager]

I didn't see Pat's post either, but I said these things, so perhaps you're thinking of me.  Not that I'm mistaken for Pat very often...

No, but you have been for memphis.

Memphis is actually much taller. But neither one of them can hold a candle to David Coolidge. 

[oldknight]

If you ask my opinion -- and I don't expect KVS or GVW to ring my phone off the hook anytime soon  -- Calvin and Hope should each be making at least one trip to Chicago every year apart from the CCIW/MIAA Challenge. There are all sorts of in-region games available over there for either team: Chicago, North Park, Dominican, CURF, Elmhurst (Benedictine might be another one, depending upon how the Grand Rapids to Lisle mileage shakes out in the Microsoft Streets & Trips software). Why not play two of those five every year? We all know that MIAA teams suffer in D3's current geographically-based setup from being located on a peninsula. But there is a rich pool of available in-region games for Hope and Calvin in the Windy City.

I do like to see Calvin play CCIW teams because they do consistently offer quality competition. But for Calvin most, if not all such games, are not inregion. We saw this at DeVos in December when Hope's games against Wheaton and Carthage were considered inregion while Calvin's games against the same teams were not. I don't know if any CCIW teams are within 200 miles of Calvin. Elmhurst and Chicago's Maroons come to mind as teams that might just fit inside 200 miles for Calvin.

[Gregory Sager]

I do like to see Calvin play CCIW teams because they do consistently offer quality competition. But for Calvin most, if not all such games, are not inregion. We saw this at DeVos in December when Hope's games against Wheaton and Carthage were considered inregion while Calvin's games against the same teams were not. I don't know if any CCIW teams are within 200 miles of Calvin. Elmhurst and Chicago's Maroons come to mind as teams that might just fit inside 200 miles for Calvin.

All five of the teams I mentioned in my last post -- Chicago, CURF, Dominican, Elmhurst, and North Park -- are well within 200 miles of the Calvin campus. Elmhurst is 11 miles east of Wheaton (i.e., 11 miles closer to Grand Rapids), and we all know how close Wheaton's campus is to being within 200 miles of Calvin. NPU is 194 miles from Calvin. And the other three schools are each closer to Calvin than Elmhurst and NPU. In other words, all five would be considered regional games for the Knights, just as they would be for Hope.

That's two CCIW teams and a UAA team, plus a couple of improving programs in what will become the NAC next season.

Plus, Mapquest has Benedictine and Calvin as being 200 miles apart, right on the nose. As I said, I don't know if Microsoft Streets & Trips would have the Bennies within Calvin's 200-mile radius or not.

[mjfasteenwolf]

I disagree, however with mjteenwolf. I don't think heart is the problem depending on how you define it. I havn't witness a player not playing hard this year.

I wasn't trying to say that heart has been a huge problem. I was just saying that heart is one of the few things that could be a problem. But don't get me wrong I know most of those guys play their absolute butts off every game. I think Philly plays as hard and competitively as anyone in D3. There have been a couple of games this year though where I have noticed a few players slacking off at times, or not showing up for the beginning of games, which is sometimes tough to do when you are expected to win every gay. At any rate, I'm not saying heart has been a huge problem, I'm just hoping that it doesn't become one.

[almcguirejr]

when you are expected to win every gay.

We are trying to appeal to a more diverse crowd the "brokeback mountain flying dutch"

[Dark Knight]

We've gone round and round on Hope's and Calvin's scheduling in the past. Every time that I inquire as to why it's necessary to play Aquinas or Cornerstone a couple of times in a season, or why Grace Bible or Andrews needs to appear on anybody's schedule at all, somebody makes an excuse. Well, Hope and Calvin are certainly within their rights to schedule anybody they choose. But there is a price to be paid for that -- the fewer in-region games you play, the narrower your margin when it comes to a possible Pool C bid. You can't stack up as many wins in regional play, thus leaving you more vulnerable in the regional W-L pct. criterion, and each loss is magnified in QOWI terms because there are fewer other games to offset them.

This year, Calvin actually benefitted from a small number of regional games, given the one conference loss. A couple of extra regional games would not have made much difference -- with two regional losses, Calvin would still have been behind most other schools with three regional losses. Calvin would really need to play just about every D-III school within 200 miles to have as many regional games as most other schools.

This is one of those curious cases where the NCAA rules have the opposite effect from what was intended. The rules put pressure on Calvin to drive to Elmhurst, Lisle, Defiance, etc. instead of playing in-town opponents Aquinas, Cornerstone, Grace Bible.

[oldknight]

All five of the teams I mentioned in my last post -- Chicago, CURF, Dominican, Elmhurst, and North Park -- are well within 200 miles of the Calvin campus. Elmhurst is 11 miles east of Wheaton (i.e., 11 miles closer to Grand Rapids), and we all know how close Wheaton's campus is to being within 200 miles of Calvin. NPU is 194 miles from Calvin. And the other three schools are each closer to Calvin than Elmhurst and NPU. In other words, all five would be considered regional games for the Knights, just as they would be for Hope.

Thanks for doing the homework Greg.

[John Rusnak]

David,

I hadn't read your posts either, but maybe it's just that great minds think alike, lol.

I do disagree that Albion and ONU need to win their tournaments to get in.  Both teams are undoubtable two of the best in the country and are forced to play against great teams that are going to beat them.  ONU's case is probaby easier, in that having only one team from the OAC would be ridiculous given the overall strength of the region and the historical strength of the conference.

From the outside, I can see where they would think three MIAA teams is excessive, however if you look at the schedule, you can see that Albion is a legitimate team and deserves a chance to get back to the Elite 8...which should also help them get a bid.

[John Rusnak]

How is it that this board is only a page longer than the NCAC board?  What could they possibly be talking about over there?

Wooster is good.  Wittenberg is good.  One will beat the other.  Both will make the tournament.

One will prove to be worth their ranking, the other won't.

Is there more to be said?

[John Rusnak]

Ok, I'm now into the Top 25.

I think it's explainable because nobody had Calvin on their maps a few weeks ago.  They have been slowly climbing up the ladder with each victory, including the big ones over opponents ranked higher than them.  For people outside of the area, I can see why they would've just jump Calvin way up over Hope.  Those around here know and are more likely to believe that Calvin is in fact a better team that they are being given credit for...but that's been the case all year.

As for the poll influencing the committee...come on, what could 25 people with knowledge about the national sports scene and that are given information on a weekly basis possibly know about rankings?  The committee has proven over and over again what brilliant geniuses they can be when it comes to picking teams to put in and which ones to leave out.  They clearly know what's going on.

[KnightSlappy]

Ok, I'm now into the Top 25.

I think it's explainable because nobody had Calvin on their maps a few weeks ago.  They have been slowly climbing up the ladder with each victory, including the big ones over opponents ranked higher than them. 

It seems though that the teams are not being compared very well.  I don't know how you can justify Calvin behind Albion.  Calvin is 2-0 head to head and has a better conference record and better overall record.

[albionbritfan]

Calvin wins the regular season conference, most likely has cemented a NCAA berth, and the fans go Rodney Dangerfield over a poll that is fun to have and talk about but has zero implications in the grand scheme (no offense to Pat and all the good work he does of course).

Admittedly Calvin should be ahead of Albion, but such is the quirky nature of polls.  What Albion though does have on its resume is a win over Baldwin Wallace, a large MOV win over Hope and to a lesser extent a win over Elmhurst.  I think those things factor in for these pollsters.  Calvin meanwhile is still carrying the baggage of an unimpressive preconference schedule.

So the more important question is: will Hope warmups sport a Roman numeral II on Wednesday? 

[John Rusnak]

Some day I'm going to figure out how to put the quotes in my box...

Knight, I never said that I personally could justify Calvin being behind Albion in the polls, I'm saying I can see how others would do it.

If I were voting I'd have Calvin and Hope in the top 10 easily.

[dren]

We've gone round and round on Hope's and Calvin's scheduling in the past. Every time that I inquire as to why it's necessary to play Aquinas or Cornerstone a couple of times in a season, or why Grace Bible or Andrews needs to appear on anybody's schedule at all, somebody makes an excuse. Well, Hope and Calvin are certainly within their rights to schedule anybody they choose. But there is a price to be paid for that -- the fewer in-region games you play, the narrower your margin when it comes to a possible Pool C bid. You can't stack up as many wins in regional play, thus leaving you more vulnerable in the regional W-L pct. criterion, and each loss is magnified in QOWI terms because there are fewer other games to offset them.

This year, Calvin actually benefitted from a small number of regional games, given the one conference loss. A couple of extra regional games would not have made much difference -- with two regional losses, Calvin would still have been behind most other schools with three regional losses. Calvin would really need to play just about every D-III school within 200 miles to have as many regional games as most other schools.

This is one of those curious cases where the NCAA rules have the opposite effect from what was intended. The rules put pressure on Calvin to drive to Elmhurst, Lisle, Defiance, etc. instead of playing in-town opponents Aquinas, Cornerstone, Grace Bible.

In-Region Competition.
In-region competition is defined as:
• All competition within an institution's defined region.
• All competition within a 200-mile radius from one institution to another.

They need to make the ohio trips then and play the Great Lakes schools...

[Civic Minded]

Hey all,

Just wanted to take the opportunity to say "thanks" to all of you Calvin fans who have been so gracious in the "Hope on the bubble" discussions.  To be honest, I expected to hear many more negative or celebratory responses -- shame on me I guess.

Good luck to all this week -- here's to what we've been waiting for all season!