MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Mr. Ypsi]

I am not very knowledgeable on how Regional Rankings are calculated.  If I understand what I am reading the 14-2 regional record of Marietta should be better that the 10-1 Hope regional record.  If that is the case why is Hope ahead of Marietta?

I also see the  NCAC is getting a lot of attention with three teams in the top six of the regional rankings.  The MIAA and OAC are lagging behind.  Especially the OAC with their top team at the #5 spot.

Am I safe to say that Marietta and Wooster will probably make the NCAA's without winning their conference tournament?  No losses and two losses at this point in the season is impressive!

There are five primary criteria that are considered by the ranking committee, not just in-region winning percentage (and 10-1 is a better percentage than 14-2 anyway).

[BogeyMan]

Are you rewarding teams for playing fewer non-league games outside your region?  Please understand this is not a Hope or Marietta thing with me.  I am just trying to figure the logic on this.

[KnightSlappy]

Are you rewarding teams for playing fewer non-league games outside your region?  Please understand this is not a Hope or Marietta thing with me.  I am just trying to figure the logic on this.

It's only a "reward" if you win the games. Fewer games means a smaller margin for error, because if you lose, you're percentage will fall a lot (1 "bad" loss in 10 is 10% of your total, but 1 extra loss in 20 only reduces your Win% by 5%).

[Mr. Ypsi]

Are you rewarding teams for playing fewer non-league games outside your region?  Please understand this is not a Hope or Marietta thing with me.  I am just trying to figure the logic on this.

KS already nailed the answer on this one.  It is interesting because this is the only criterion which specifies W-L % - the others only state 'results'.  Pat Coleman has suggested that it may be 'better' to go 1-2 (perhaps even 0-2) against regionally-ranked opponents than to go 0-0 - at least you PLAYED ranked teams!  Since it is not spelled out in the criteria, and the committees making the rankings change from year-to-year, it is really impossible to say for sure how it works.

[northb]

I also see the  NCAC is getting a lot of attention with three teams in the top six of the regional rankings.  The MIAA and OAC are lagging behind.  

DLN has got to go

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I know from talking to current and former regional members and national members, they are emphasing in-region games. So if they look at a team that is 0-2 in region and a team that didn't play one game, they are going to give a bit more recognition to the team that is 0-2 because they PLAYED two in-region games that were out of conference. They are trying to point out to teams that while traveling all around the country to play teams is a choice of the programs, if they are serious about making the NCAA tournament, they better consider playing teams in their backyard as well.

Remember, teams are ranked regionally and while we have done away with the "x" selections from each region no matter who they are they are still considered on a regional basis first before being selected to the NCAA tournament.

So... if team #1 and #2 are already into the NCAA tournament, team #3 is then the top team in the region when each of the top teams are put on the "table" for a Pool C selection. So, those regional games mean something and if a team is ducking those games for something else it can hurt them. This is also why conferences like the ASC struggle because they have such LARGE conference schedules... there are not manye in-region games to add to the resume.

[KnightSlappy]

I know from talking to current and former regional members and national members, they are emphasing in-region games. So if they look at a team that is 0-2 in region and a team that didn't play one game, they are going to give a bit more recognition to the team that is 0-2 because they PLAYED two in-region games that were out of conference. They are trying to point out to teams that while traveling all around the country to play teams is a choice of the programs, if they are serious about making the NCAA tournament, they better consider playing teams in their backyard as well.

Isn't the NCAA making a choice in not allowing certaing games to be considered 'in-region'

Calvin had three games this year (all losses, but let's not talk about that) that are not 'in-region', but against very close teams:

Wheaton, Benedictine, and Carthage

The first two are closer in proximity than every single non-MIAA "Great Lakes" school, and Carthage is closer than all but two, and yet it doesn't count.

So really, Calvin should be playing games in our neighbor's backyard, not our own.

The NCAA has no problem moving Calvin and Hope west to Chicago/Wisconsin for the tournament (hey, it's closer) so why don't they allow them to play during the season?

But nothing will change because it's really a problem that's pretty much unique to the MIAA.

[Pat Coleman]

The NCAA has no problem moving Calvin and Hope west to Chicago/Wisconsin for the tournament (hey, it's closer) so why don't they allow them to play during the season?

But nothing will change because it's really a problem that's pretty much unique to the MIAA.

I know adding "adjacent states" to the definition is something that gets discussed. I believe Division II does something like this.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Yeah - there are some loop-holes, but they have also greatly expanded what is considered an in-region game.

It used to be only in your region... they then added the 200 mile radius... and then when they realized they still needed to flexiability, they added the four NCAA Geographic Regions.

It isn't perfect. There are still schools in PA, NJ, DE, and MD that aren't regional games simply because they aren't within 200 miles or inside the general region, despite the fact that Maryland teams can call games against Maine teams regional because of the NCAA Geographic Region 1.

The other example is the Hope/Calvin and Illinois games. Because you have to drive around Lake Michigan, the mileage increases to over 200 miles.

Now, don't confuse what the NCAA will do with the tournament, because they are allowed to bus teams 500 miles for games before they have to consider flying them. Since they don't want to fly and the committee is trying to make the brackets more balanced, they have taken advantage of that 500 mile solution.

Can they make regional games count if they are 500 miles apart? Maybe... but we get closer and closer to having all games count, thus national, and I know that coaches and committees are against this. They seem to not want to have schools who can afford to fly around and play challenging opponents the upper-hand on schools you cant... OR, and more likely, they don't want schools to take advantage of long trips and possibly miss school as a result.

It's not perfect... but it is far better then the QOWI, only in-region, and picking x amount of teams per region for Pool C instead of looking at it nationally... like it was not that long ago. We have come a long way!

[KnightSlappy]

The NCAA has no problem moving Calvin and Hope west to Chicago/Wisconsin for the tournament (hey, it's closer) so why don't they allow them to play during the season?

But nothing will change because it's really a problem that's pretty much unique to the MIAA.

I know adding "adjacent states" to the definition is something that gets discussed. I believe Division II does something like this.

I know we all would like all D3 to count, but that doesn't flow with regional emphasis, but adjacent states does, and it would add several games that are truly "regional".

Do you happen to know if this is being actively discussed, or is it just being tossed around now and then?

... and before the question gets asked, yes, Michigan shares official state borders with Illinois and Minnesota.

Now, don't confuse what the NCAA will do with the tournament, because they are allowed to bus teams 500 miles for games before they have to consider flying them. Since they don't want to fly and the committee is trying to make the brackets more balanced, they have taken advantage of that 500 mile solution.

I do understand the difference, but it feels like they're talking out of both sides of their mouth when they so readily get bussed to IL/WI (and IL/WI get bussed here). Sure, it also has to do with so many Tourney teams coming from that area as well.

I'm just thinking off the top of my head, but the last time Hope or Calvin got put in a Great Lakes pod may have been Calvin at JCU in 03-04

[EDIT] OWU and Capital came to Hope in '07-08, but that's still only two out of the last nine combined tourney appearances that they've been placed with their own region.

[Pat Coleman]

I don't know if it is being actively discussed. I last talked about it with football people about a month ago.

[HopeConvert]

Can they make regional games count if they are 500 miles apart? Maybe... but we get closer and closer to having all games count, thus national, and I know that coaches and committees are against this. They seem to not want to have schools who can afford to fly around and play challenging opponents the upper-hand on schools you cant... OR, and more likely, they don't want schools to take advantage of long trips and possibly miss school as a result.

ROTFL! Ha ha ha ha.

[sac]

Way back on the morning of Jan 22, Hope and Albion were tied for first with 4-1 records. 





.....12 days later

Hope's 12 days consisted of winning a tough, hard fought game at Albion and leading the MIAA outright for the first time in 3 seasons(not verified).  4 days later they would need a 16 point comeback and OT to knock off Kalamazoo at home.  A game which saw Will Bowser score 46 and Joe Prepolec score 40.   3 days later, they comeback from 18 down to beat their arch rival on the road and that evening are 2 games ahead in standings.

Albion's 12 days consisted of losing a tough, hard fought game at home to Hope, falling a game back in the standings.  4 days later the Britons were destroyed at Calvin by 31 points and were 2 games back.  Their Saturday game was canceled because of a campus wide outbreak of the flu and weren't able to practice.  On Monday they lost a heart breaker on a tip at the buzzer to Olivet.  A third straight loss, a third loss at home and now 3 games back in the standings.

Then this happend.......


The full conference slate was canceled a day early, perhaps unprecedented.

Hope looks to extend its winning streak, and may find itself further ahead by the end of the weekend.  Despite the 2 game lead this doesn't feel like it will be easy by any stretch.  Hope could have easily lost all 3 games last week, and maybe should have lost 2 of them.  Hope has shown some incredible resilience, the kind that has put them 2 games up in the standings, instead of 2 games down.


Albion feels like a team at the crossroads, they need a win.  I suppose in this league lately if you need a win its always handy to have Alma pop onto your schedule at just the right time.  Saturday night they are going to play Adrian both teams on just 1 days rest, a very important game for both teams and one that will shape the stretch run for the entire league really.  Albion finishes with Kzoo, Hope and Calvin so they can still make a big impact.  How much of an impact might depend entirely on if they bounce back this week.


So on this sun filled Thursday, we have two teams that 12 days ago were linked together that have gone entirely different paths.  Its been a crazy 12 days that will extend to 15 with the schedule changes, who's to say we won't see other teams take such divergent paths in the next 2 weeks.

[sac]

A couple time changes for Saturday...

Hope at Alma is now a 3:00pm game

Albion at Adrian is now a 7:30pm game.

[sflzman]

Hope at Alma is now a 3:00pm game

PINK day for breast cancer at Alma College. Live remote starts at noon, then a women's/men's double-header for breast cancer awareness...