MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sflzman]

Breaking News from Alma:

4 Scots suspended for this week's contests, including Sr. PG, Kevin Ginther

[Gregory Sager]

Brian Morehouse not to long ago commented that he was going out of state to attract quality players.  He has a quality, winning program, and I don't doubt his efforts will meet with success.  Look at the rosters of some of the more successful programs across the country, and you will see that many quality programs recruit far and wide.

... and many of them don't. See, for example, UWSP, UWRF, St. Thomas, Wooster, Wittenberg, Augustana, Illinois Wesleyan, Ramapo, Virginia Wesleyan -- in fact, at least two-thirds of the current Top 25 consists of teams whose rosters are completely, or almost completely, composed of players who hail from within 200 miles of campus.

The only schools whose coaches really make a point out of recruiting "far and wide" are UAA and NESCAC members (they're leagues that consist exclusively of nationally-based institutions with nationally-renowned academic reputations, with the big-bucks endowments that make recruitment by plane possible), and the occasional stray anomaly such as Wheaton (IL), MIT, Caltech, and Principia.

The typical D3 coach, whether successful or not, does his recruiting by car.

Emory (the team Calvin's volleyball team beat for the national championship) had players from quite a number of states.   This wasn't their first trip to the big dance.  Comparing their roster to the Calvin roster the announcers found it quite unusual that Calvin had players from such a small geographic area.  They were even more amazed that 6 of them had attended the same h.s.

Then those announcers were completely out of touch with the nature of most D3 schools, which is that they recruit locally rather than nationally. Emory is a UAA institution; as noted, all UAA institutions recruit nationally. Like Emory, they're all major research universities with sterling academic reputations and a plentitude of resources that make coast-to-coast recruitment viable.

Go to the CCIW room during recruiting time and you will quickly learn that competion for quality recruits is not limited to the MIAA or the "mitten".

Yes, but if you read the off-season recruiting discussions in the CCIW room you'll note that they're always about local high school prospects (i.e., from Chicagoland or northern Illinois). Wheaton, which recruits nationally rather than locally, is seldom an involved party in such discussions.

[Gregory Sager]

Rather than comparing Calvin to Div 1 teams like MSU (talk about apples and oranges) why don't you take the time to compare us to teams like Wash. U

I'm waiting for your counterpart to show up on the UAA board. If he's too lazy, I can write the script for him. No need for attribution.

The Bears are 10-8 (4-3 in conference) and have needed a 4 game win streak to get above .500 to do that well. That's Calvin College misery. Unlike the highly successful volleyball program, things at WashU have certainly hit a plateau in men's hoops; the school always settles for mediocrity in men's basketball. They set expectations too low and don't seem to want to place the best, most competitive team on the court, unlike volleyball which has well coached, well disciplined athletes that play every serve and never give up in the face of daunting odds. It's possible to repeat year after year and ME needs to realize it.

Unlike Calvin I really don't think anyone expects Wash U. to be down for 5 years, and the admin. there to still act like everything is great.  Everyone expects every program to have a down year or two once in awhile.  Accepting a downward trend line is quite another scenario.

I can guarantee that Mark Edwards would still have his job if Wash U were to have another four years like this current one, as long as his players keep their noses clean and graduate. Don't believe me? Ask the d3boards.com regulars with Wash U connections, such as WUH or Wydown Blvd.

Four reasons why: 1) D3 basketball coaching isn't nearly as cutthroat as it is in the D1 ranks. Yes, the administration wants you to win, but it's not a win-at-all-costs mentality, for the most part, on this level; 2) Mark Edwards is universally respected as a teacher and role model by his coaching peers, his administration colleagues, and the Wash U community at large (as is, it appears to me, Kevin VandeStreek along similar lines at Calvin); 3) In D3, graduation rates and good citizenship aren't potential hurdles to be leaped over in terms of what sort of players a coach recruits, as they are in the mercenary world of D1 -- they're the essence of what this level is all about; and 4) A national championship goes a long way towards guaranteeing one's job security. A classic example is Otterbein's Dick Reynolds, who is constantly criticized over in the OAC room. Reynolds' Cardinals teams have gone 20-55 over the past three years. But his job isn't in danger, because Reynolds has not only won more games than any other coach in OAC history, he also brought home the Walnut and Bronze in 2002. Likewise, Edwards has won two national championships while at Wash U, won over 500 games, been given countless awards for his coaching prowess, and is the only coach that the Bears have had since the school revived men's basketball in 1981.

Do you honestly think that his job would be in peril if he were to string together a bunch of 15-10 or 14-11 seasons?

[sac]

Hope and Trine will be late starters tonight, the JV's have gone to overtime.

[realist]

Brian Morehouse not to long ago commented that he was going out of state to attract quality players.  He has a quality, winning program, and I don't doubt his efforts will meet with success.  Look at the rosters of some of the more successful programs across the country, and you will see that many quality programs recruit far and wide.

... and many of them don't. See, for example, UWSP, UWRF, St. Thomas, Wooster, Wittenberg, Augustana, Illinois Wesleyan, Ramapo, Virginia Wesleyan -- in fact, at least two-thirds of the current Top 25 consists of teams whose rosters are completely, or almost completely, composed of players who hail from within 200 miles of campus.

The only schools whose coaches really make a point out of recruiting "far and wide" are UAA and NESCAC members (they're leagues that consist exclusively of nationally-based institutions with nationally-renowned academic reputations, with the big-bucks endowments that make recruitment by plane possible), and the occasional stray anomaly such as Wheaton (IL), MIT, Caltech, and Principia.

The typical D3 coach, whether successful or not, does his recruiting by car.

Emory (the team Calvin's volleyball team beat for the national championship) had players from quite a number of states.   This wasn't their first trip to the big dance.  Comparing their roster to the Calvin roster the announcers found it quite unusual that Calvin had players from such a small geographic area.  They were even more amazed that 6 of them had attended the same h.s.

Then those announcers were completely out of touch with the nature of most D3 schools, which is that they recruit locally rather than nationally. Emory is a UAA institution; as noted, all UAA institutions recruit nationally. Like Emory, they're all major research universities with sterling academic reputations and a plentitude of resources that make coast-to-coast recruitment viable.

Go to the CCIW room during recruiting time and you will quickly learn that competion for quality recruits is not limited to the MIAA or the "mitten".

Yes, but if you read the off-season recruiting discussions in the CCIW room you'll note that they're always about local high school prospects (i.e., from Chicagoland or northern Illinois). Wheaton, which recruits nationally rather than locally, is seldom an involved party in such discussions.

Code Select Expand

If you care to read the Morehouse quote it is on the MIAA women's bball board.  Posted by a Hope fan so I assume it is credible.

I very carefully used the word some, and that would imply that many others might not.  

Greg.  I have tremendous respect for you as a poster, but you disappoint with your statement about the volleyball announcers.  
Did you watch the video cast of the games?  
If you didn't than you really don't know if the announcers knew what they were talking about or not.  
I don't recall the announcers names, but formed the idea they have done a number of volleyball championship broadcasts before, and believe at least one of them may be a D3 volleyball coach.   Based on the other commentary one would come away believing the announcers would qualify at the same level as Pat Coleman would when it comes to bball D3 knowledge.

Perhaps you are right about Coach Edwards,  (ccorrected) but I just can't concieve that his program is going to have 5 down years.

[almcguirejr]

Kalamazoo 38
Calvin 31

Halftime

[Gregory Sager]

Brian Morehouse not to long ago commented that he was going out of state to attract quality players.  He has a quality, winning program, and I don't doubt his efforts will meet with success.  Look at the rosters of some of the more successful programs across the country, and you will see that many quality programs recruit far and wide.

... and many of them don't. See, for example, UWSP, UWRF, St. Thomas, Wooster, Wittenberg, Augustana, Illinois Wesleyan, Ramapo, Virginia Wesleyan -- in fact, at least two-thirds of the current Top 25 consists of teams whose rosters are completely, or almost completely, composed of players who hail from within 200 miles of campus.

The only schools whose coaches really make a point out of recruiting "far and wide" are UAA and NESCAC members (they're leagues that consist exclusively of nationally-based institutions with nationally-renowned academic reputations, with the big-bucks endowments that make recruitment by plane possible), and the occasional stray anomaly such as Wheaton (IL), MIT, Caltech, and Principia.

The typical D3 coach, whether successful or not, does his recruiting by car.

Emory (the team Calvin's volleyball team beat for the national championship) had players from quite a number of states.   This wasn't their first trip to the big dance.  Comparing their roster to the Calvin roster the announcers found it quite unusual that Calvin had players from such a small geographic area.  They were even more amazed that 6 of them had attended the same h.s.

Then those announcers were completely out of touch with the nature of most D3 schools, which is that they recruit locally rather than nationally. Emory is a UAA institution; as noted, all UAA institutions recruit nationally. Like Emory, they're all major research universities with sterling academic reputations and a plentitude of resources that make coast-to-coast recruitment viable.

Go to the CCIW room during recruiting time and you will quickly learn that competion for quality recruits is not limited to the MIAA or the "mitten".

Yes, but if you read the off-season recruiting discussions in the CCIW room you'll note that they're always about local high school prospects (i.e., from Chicagoland or northern Illinois). Wheaton, which recruits nationally rather than locally, is seldom an involved party in such discussions.

Code Select Expand

If you care to read the Morehouse quote it is on the MIAA women's bball board.  Posted by a Hope fan so I assume it is credible.

I very carefully used the word some, and that would imply that many others might not. 

Greg.  I have tremendous respect for you as a poster, but you disappoint with your statement about the volleyball announcers.  Did you watch the video cast of the games?  If you didn't than you really don't know if the announcers knew what they were talking about or not.

Not true. Recruiting tendencies are almost always the same from one sport to another in D3 with regard to geographic range. That's because they all come out of the same athletic budget.

Do a study of D3 volleyball rosters. A fair sampling of any conferences that aren't the UAA or the NESCAC will do. You'll see that the rosters are, by and large, made up of players who hail from within 200 miles of campus.

I don't care how well-versed the announcers are in the intricacies of volleyball, or how well they studied up on the backgrounds of the various teams. If they aren't aware that the vast majority of D3 schools recruit their student-athletes locally, then their knowledge of this division is lacking.

I don't recall the announcers names, but formed the idea they have done a number of volleyball broadcasts before, and believe at least one of them may be a D3 volleyball coach.   Based on the other commentary one would come away believing the announcers would qualify at the same level as Pat Coleman would when it comes to bball D3 knowledge.

If they don't know that most D3 schools recruit locally, then they clearly don't know as much as Pat Coleman does, that's for certain. Pat is well aware of the nature of recruiting in D3 athletics; trust me on that.

Perhaps you are right about Coach White, but I just can't concieve that his program is going to have 5 down years.

No "perhaps" about it, but his name is Mark Edwards, not White. And it's certainly possible that Wash U could have five years at a 15-10 or 14-11 clip. The UAA's a tough league (this season notwithstanding), and his program has had down stretches in the past. In 1991-92 and 1992-93 his teams went 14-12 and 15-10, and from 1996-97 thru 1998-99 the Bears went 17-9, 14-11, and 16-10.

[scottiedawg]

Kalamazoo 38
Calvin 31

Halftime

Please keep throwing updates on here.

[goodknight]

Brian Morehouse not to long ago commented that he was going out of state to attract quality players.  He has a quality, winning program, and I don't doubt his efforts will meet with success.  Look at the rosters of some of the more successful programs across the country, and you will see that many quality programs recruit far and wide.

... and many of them don't. See, for example, UWSP, UWRF, St. Thomas, Wooster, Wittenberg, Augustana, Illinois Wesleyan, Ramapo, Virginia Wesleyan -- in fact, at least two-thirds of the current Top 25 consists of teams whose rosters are completely, or almost completely, composed of players who hail from within 200 miles of campus.

The only schools whose coaches really make a point out of recruiting "far and wide" are UAA and NESCAC members (they're leagues that consist exclusively of nationally-based institutions with nationally-renowned academic reputations, with the big-bucks endowments that make recruitment by plane possible), and the occasional stray anomaly such as Wheaton (IL), MIT, Caltech, and Principia.

The typical D3 coach, whether successful or not, does his recruiting by car.

Emory (the team Calvin's volleyball team beat for the national championship) had players from quite a number of states.   This wasn't their first trip to the big dance.  Comparing their roster to the Calvin roster the announcers found it quite unusual that Calvin had players from such a small geographic area.  They were even more amazed that 6 of them had attended the same h.s.

Then those announcers were completely out of touch with the nature of most D3 schools, which is that they recruit locally rather than nationally. Emory is a UAA institution; as noted, all UAA institutions recruit nationally. Like Emory, they're all major research universities with sterling academic reputations and a plentitude of resources that make coast-to-coast recruitment viable.

Go to the CCIW room during recruiting time and you will quickly learn that competion for quality recruits is not limited to the MIAA or the "mitten".

Yes, but if you read the off-season recruiting discussions in the CCIW room you'll note that they're always about local high school prospects (i.e., from Chicagoland or northern Illinois). Wheaton, which recruits nationally rather than locally, is seldom an involved party in such discussions.

Code Select Expand

If you care to read the Morehouse quote it is on the MIAA women's bball board.  Posted by a Hope fan so I assume it is credible.

I very carefully used the word some, and that would imply that many others might not. 

Greg.  I have tremendous respect for you as a poster, but you disappoint with your statement about the volleyball announcers.  Did you watch the video cast of the games?  If you didn't than you really don't know if the announcers knew what they were talking about or not.

Not true. Recruiting tendencies are almost always the same from one sport to another in D3 with regard to geographic range. That's because they all come out of the same athletic budget.

Do a study of D3 volleyball rosters. A fair sampling of any conferences that aren't the UAA or the NESCAC will do. You'll see that the rosters are, by and large, made up of players who hail from within 200 miles of campus.

I don't care how well-versed the announcers are in the intricacies of volleyball, or how well they studied up on the backgrounds of the various teams. If they aren't aware that the vast majority of D3 schools recruit their student-athletes locally, then their knowledge of this division is lacking.

I don't recall the announcers names, but formed the idea they have done a number of volleyball broadcasts before, and believe at least one of them may be a D3 volleyball coach.   Based on the other commentary one would come away believing the announcers would qualify at the same level as Pat Coleman would when it comes to bball D3 knowledge.

If they don't know that most D3 schools recruit locally, then they clearly don't know as much as Pat Coleman does, that's for certain. Pat is well aware of the nature of recruiting in D3 athletics; trust me on that.

Perhaps you are right about Coach White, but I just can't concieve that his program is going to have 5 down years.

No "perhaps" about it, but his name is Mark Edwards, not White. And it's certainly possible that Wash U could have five years at a 15-10 or 14-11 clip. The UAA's a tough league (this season notwithstanding), and his program has had down stretches in the past. In 1991-92 and 1992-93 his teams went 14-12 and 15-10, and from 1996-97 thru 1998-99 the Bears went 17-9, 14-11, and 16-10.

Let's not confuse the situation with facts, Gregory. 

[goodknight]

Calvin's on a run.  Knights leading K now 57-55 with just under 10 to go in the second half.  Snikkers has 25.

[Intangir]

Kalamazoo 38
Calvin 31

Halftime

Please keep throwing updates on here.

Calvin 57 Kzoo 55  with 9:43 left

[almcguirejr]

Kalamazoo 69

Calvin 72

Final

Snikkers outstanding game w/27?

[goodknight]

Calvin 70
K 66
under 3 to go

[sac]

http://www.olivetcollege.edu/athletics/miaa/mbb/0203.HTM

This link will give you the livestats from each game scottiedawg, you can click on each game from there.

[scottiedawg]

http://www.olivetcollege.edu/athletics/miaa/mbb/0203.HTM

This link will give you the livestats from each game scottiedawg, you can click on each game from there.

Calvin has been dead for me.