MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Titan Q]

Wonder why nobody schedules grinnell then?

Distance.  It's a non-region game for the MIAA.  Sure as heck not because the MIAA teams are afraid of them.  If the system was so unbeatable, there would be many National Championships banners in its facility.

Another reason many D3 coaches don't like scheduling Grinnell is that it's a game where you play a completely different style than any other game you will play all season long.  Against Grinnell, you literally cannot run your offense -- say what you want about "the system", but it allows Grinnell to absolutely dictate the style of play.  On offense, basically you break the press, make a couple passes, and take your layup (or you turn it over of course).  On defense, again, you face something you just won't see in your 24 other games.

There are certainly positives that can come from a game vs Grinnell (working on your press breaker, seeing how well conditioned you are, etc) , but games vs the Pioneers are just so bizarre and different.  With the non-conference part of the schedule primarily about developing as a team, and getting ready for conference play, I think many coaches look at playing Grinnell as a waste.

Here are the boxscores from the last CCIW games vs Grinnell:

http://athletics.wheaton.edu/custompages/mbball/mbbarchivedstats/2010/mwhe8.htm

http://www.carthage.edu/athleticspages/mens/basketball/stats/2007/grinnell.htm


Just such different games as the boxscores illustrate.

[Titan Q]

Wonder why nobody schedules grinnell then?

Distance.  It's a non-region game for the MIAA.  Sure as heck not because the MIAA teams are afraid of them.  If the system was so unbeatable, there would be many National Championships banners in its facility.

Look at Grinnell's schedule, there actually isn't much room for non-conference games with such a large slate of conference games. Look at the schedule further and it is pretty clear that Grinnell uses their limited non-con games to play weak opponents to pull the kind of stunts they pulled this week

Also, I think a lot of D-III teams in the area won't play them because of the unusual style of play. They'd have to spend time in practice on something they'll never use again.

Or what Pat said.

[Titan Q]

Here is the boxscore from Grinnell's last NCAA tournament game...

http://sun.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2001/030101m.htm


What I always remember about that game is that IWU was able to easily break the press (just 14 turnovers), and then actually run "real" offense quite a bit.  IWU took 14 3's in that game, which I think is pretty rare vs Grinnell.

But most times you play Grinnell, you just get sucked into bizarro ball.

I should also say that the IWU/Grinnell game was the loudest I have heard IWU's Shirk Center.  Grinnell's frenzied pace created an absolutely electric atmosphere with the 3100 in the building that night.  I'd love to see a Grinnell @ Hope tournament game!

[Pat Coleman]

Wow, long time ago. And IWU shot 3-pointers against Grinnell! That doesn't happen much anymore.

[GoKnights68]

Aquinas took another loss on Tuesday dropping to 1-6 on the year.  I don't know what to make of them since they never play at their actual ability in this tournament.  Somehow they'll keep one of these games close.


Cornerstone dropped their other crosstown showdown game with Davenport Tuesday, 91-85.   http://www.cugoldeneagles.com/stats/2012-13/Men%27s%20Basketball/M04_DU_11202012.html   Davenport led by double digits for part of the game, C'stone kind of cut into to that margin late.

C'stone has a couple good wins over a usually good Indiana Wesleyan and Spring Arbor.  But at 3-1 its sort of hard to figure out what they are at this point.  I have to think Hope's in for a good game tonight.

Cornerstone is a solid team, as Davenport is one of the top teams in the nation in the NAIA.  I think Calvin and Hope combine to go 3-1 this weekend as they each beat AQ and one of them loses to Cornerstone.

[ziggy]

This "tournament" needs to end.

I think you meant needed to end several years ago.   One of the very few positives I can draw from this are Hope, Calvin, Aquinas, Cornerstone get to stay close to home over the Thanksgiving Holiday.  Except in years when we hold a tournament supporting the Grand Rapids Sports Hall of Fame 30 miles away in Holland.

Also, yes supporting the GR Sports Hall of Fame is a nice thing.

I would have agreed a couple years ago but don't think I do anymore. Calvin was playing Aquinas twice per year back then and that certainly needed to end, but it has. With Calvin and Hope no longer able to meet each other at this even and it being the only meeting with Aquinas and Cornerstone, I don't see why it needs to end. Were it to end I fully expect it would be replaced with single games between Calvin and Aquinas and probably Cornerstone on at least a semi-regular basis.

[KnightSlappy]

This "tournament" needs to end.

I think you meant needed to end several years ago.   One of the very few positives I can draw from this are Hope, Calvin, Aquinas, Cornerstone get to stay close to home over the Thanksgiving Holiday.  Except in years when we hold a tournament supporting the Grand Rapids Sports Hall of Fame 30 miles away in Holland.

Also, yes supporting the GR Sports Hall of Fame is a nice thing.

I would have agreed a couple years ago but don't think I do anymore. Calvin was playing Aquinas twice per year back then and that certainly needed to end, but it has. With Calvin and Hope no longer able to meet each other at this even and it being the only meeting with Aquinas and Cornerstone, I don't see why it needs to end. Were it to end I fully expect it would be replaced with single games between Calvin and Aquinas and probably Cornerstone on at least a semi-regular basis.

Right, with Trinity and AQ x2 now off the schedule (hopefully permanently), these games are OK. They're usually solid teams (better than most D3's you'd like to schedule), and they're right in your backyard. I'd rather do away with the obligatory Grace Bible game in the tip off tournament before getting rid of these games.

That being said, it's clearly not a priority for many people to attend (I've only been to maybe three GRSHOF games ever).

[maroonandgold]

Quote from: sac on Today at 11:42:21 am

    Quote from: monsoon on November 21, 2012, 05:09:16 pm

       

This "tournament" needs to end.

[/color]

I think you meant needed to end several years ago.   One of the very few positives I can draw from this are Hope, Calvin, Aquinas, Cornerstone get to stay close to home over the Thanksgiving Holiday.  Except in years when we hold a tournament supporting the Grand Rapids Sports Hall of Fame 30 miles away in Holland.

    Also, yes supporting the GR Sports Hall of Fame is a nice thing.

[/quote][/color]

I would have agreed a couple years ago but don't think I do anymore. Calvin was playing Aquinas twice per year back then and that certainly needed to end, but it has. With Calvin and Hope no longer able to meet each other at this even and it being the only meeting with Aquinas and Cornerstone, I don't see why it needs to end. Were it to end I fully expect it would be replaced with single games between Calvin and Aquinas and probably Cornerstone on at least a semi-regular basis.[/quote

I certainly agree with the last comment.  It makes sense to play Aquinas and Cornerstone each year as long as it does not result in too many times with the two teams that already play each other in each league playing each other an additional time.  I would think that would be an important issue for Aquinas and Cornerstone as well as Hope and Calvin.

[almcguirejr]

OT:  The Division 2 state championship football game between Brother Rice and Muskegon is a classic.

[goodknight]

If I thought for a minute that Calvin would schedule some strong in-region D3 competition instead of this Banque du Jour Tourney in West Michigan, I'd favor that change.  But I don't see that happening anytime soon.  Once the tourney left the Van Andel Arena and GVSU pulled out, the excitement factor pretty much ended for me. 

[pointlem]

With five minutes to play, the Calvin starters have a combined zero fouls for the game's first 35 minutes.  That's unusual!

[KnightSlappy]

Welp. A win is a win? 58-55 Knights.

Calvin has now held their opponents to 53,54,56, and 55 points this year.

[goodknight]

It was scarcely a work of art, but the Knights held off a gritty gaggle of Saints tonight at DeVos Fieldhouse.  After a very shaky start, Calvin gained the lead at 12-10, and then seemed like they might break it open on a number of occasions.  But Aquinas stayed within hailing distance and made a few runs to cut the lead to a one-possession game a handful of times.  It seemed that the Saints executed their game plan well, and slowed the pace enough to keep the Knights in sight all the way to the end.
A very good game from Austin Semple of AQ.  Tyler Kruis led Calvin with 13, and Jordan Brink added 11. 
I expect Cornerstone to provide a very different and difficult test for Calvin tomorrow night.

[KnightSlappy]

It's no longer a tournament, but it hasn't made any difference the last two years.

[oldknight]

A somewhat ugly win for the Knights tonight over an Aquinas squad that obviously tries to keep the score in the 50's to give themselves the best chance to win. The Calvin offense obliged the Saints' sentiment by not exactly clicking on offense. For several minutes Calvin had more turnovers than baskets, most of them aided and abetted by poor decision making by Calvin players rather than great Aquinas defense. Shooting was so-so, almost as if the kids from the East Beltline digested too much turkey stuffing the day before. On the positive side, this was exactly the kind of game the Knights lost last year so winning when you're not at your best is encouraging. Other than a few second half breakdowns, Calvin's defense was very good again for most of the game, holding another opponent under 60. Calvin has a lot of big guys who can defend with little or no help which may explain why we are seeing fewer of those swing passes result in wide open threes from the weak side this year. Tomorrow will be a real test for the Knights because based on what I saw of Cornestone's first half against Hope, I expect 40 minutes of full court pressing with a lot of double teaming. I have no clue how well Calvin will handle it but the type of game we will see Saturday will be entirely different from Friday. The biggest headscratcher for me tonight was watching Jordan Brink check out at around the five minute mark and not return until 53 seconds were left in the game. Leave a 93% free throw shooter on the bench while holding a small lead down the stretch? Jordan did miss a free throw in the second half though so there must have been a disturbance in the Force.