MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Roundball999]

Other MIAA fan bases are gonna have to step it up - Hope can't do it all.

Adrian, Albion, Alma, Kalamazoo, Olivet, Trine and even Calvin (when playing anyone other than Hope) have got to step up their promotion!

Change in avg attendance from 2013

Adrian  -178
Albion  +129
Alma    +17
Calvin  -891
Hope   -289
Kzoo   -17
Olivet  -53
Trine   -315

The poor attendance at the MIAA semi-final at both Hope and Calvin was a large factor.

3 game MIAA Tournament attendance totals:
2013:   7,453
2014:   4,841

Hope's decrease is largely from a poorly attended MIAA Semi-final game and a Monday make-up game in league play.

Seeing as a Hope v. Calvin championship game sells out more often than not, playing the MIAA Championship at Hope, rather than at Calvin, is roughly a 1600 person swing for the conference. Having one home sell out instead of two is also a big hit for Calvin's average attendance.

I am at least excited to have found an legitimate argument for why Calvin needed to build a 5000 seat arena, when they average 1,500 fans (30%) at non-Hope games. In comparison, the smaller DeVos Fieldhouse averages at about 70% capacity for non-Calvin games (2,350 fans)...

Wonder if Hope's decisions to stream more games in the second half of the year contributed in any way to its decline?  Haven't looked at the specific numbers.....

[HOPEful]

Wonder if Hope's decisions to stream more games in the second half of the year contributed in any way to its decline?  Haven't looked at the specific numbers.....

Although my wife and I braved this past winter for most of the home games, I can't hold it against anyone who chose to stay home and watch from their computer...

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Wonder if Hope's decisions to stream more games in the second half of the year contributed in any way to its decline?  Haven't looked at the specific numbers.....

The numbers really don't show that - in fact it's the opposite.

I don't remember exactly when the video streaming began - seems to me it was the middle of the conference season.  Hope played 4 regular season games at home in January, and the same in February.  The Calvin game was in February, so I've also calculated the average without that game. 

Average attendance:

January  2360
February  2746 (includes Calvin game)
February  2489 (excludes Calvin game)

NOTE:  February also includes a Kazoo makeup game played on a Monday that had an attendance of 1889.

Pretty sure that the video stream wasn't a cause for the decline.  I truly believe it's pretty much all weather related.  I know personally we haven't missed a game (home or away) in years, but missed two road games due to snow this year.  Be interested to see what next season looks like - provided the weather is better.

[Roundball999]

Wonder if Hope's decisions to stream more games in the second half of the year contributed in any way to its decline?  Haven't looked at the specific numbers.....

The numbers really don't show that - in fact it's the opposite.

I don't remember exactly when the video streaming began - seems to me it was the middle of the conference season.  Hope played 4 regular season games at home in January, and the same in February.  The Calvin game was in February, so I've also calculated the average without that game. 

Average attendance:

January  2360
February  2746 (includes Calvin game)
February  2489 (excludes Calvin game)

NOTE:  February also includes a Kazoo makeup game played on a Monday that had an attendance of 1889.

Pretty sure that the video stream wasn't a cause for the decline.  I truly believe it's pretty much all weather related.  I know personally we haven't missed a game (home or away) in years, but missed two road games due to snow this year.  Be interested to see what next season looks like - provided the weather is better.

Thanks for the analysis and I'm glad the numbers look that way. I've never been able to get to all the games I'd like to so am a streaming  proponent.  That said, streaming wouldn't keep me away from a game I could otherwise attend.  Would hate to think streaming would cause a significant attendance decline.

[sac]

This was posted on the CCIW board showing Olivet and Adrian playing at Mt Union.  This would be two years in a row for both teams playing at Mt. Union and would mean Olivet play the Raiders twice this winter(also play them at Hope).

2014-15 NCC NON-CONFERENCE SCHEDULE

Nov 21-22  NCC Tip Off Tourney--with UW-Whitewater, Bluffton, & Trinity. No matchups yet.
       25 Aurora
       29 @ UW-Stevens Point

Dec 4 @ Pamona Pitzer College (CA)
      6 @ Redlands College (CA) 
      12-13 @ Juniata College (PA) Tourney---NCC, Dickinson, Penn St-York, & Juniata. Matchups not set yet.
      17 @ Benedictine
      27 @ Mt. Union (OH) Tourney Vs. Olivet
      28 @ Mt. Union (OH) Tourney Vs. Adrian

Spanning the globe in December. 

[sac]

This was pointed out to me tonight, thoughts?

Wednesday Feb 4, 2015

6 pm   Hope at Calvin  --men
8 pm   Olivet at Calvin  --women


Calvin actually has 3 6pm starts in a row on Wednesday

[Galahad]

This was pointed out to me tonight, thoughts?

Wednesday Feb 4, 2015

6 pm   Hope at Calvin  --men
8 pm   Olivet at Calvin  --women


Calvin actually has 3 6pm starts in a row on Wednesday

Perhaps the upheaval that has changed Michigan high school basketball in the name of parity has come to college?

[HOPEful]

This was pointed out to me tonight, thoughts?
Wednesday Feb 4, 2015
6 pm   Hope at Calvin  --men
8 pm   Olivet at Calvin  --women

Anyone else feel like this is a mission from Mission Impossible? Flying Dutchmen, your mission should you choose to accept it...  leave work at 5 and head straight the game. On a good day, you can get to the E. Beltline (technically Broadmoor) exit in 30 minutes. That will leave you 30 minutes to get through rush hour traffic on 28th St. and the East Beltline, park your car, run into the stadium, and get to your nosebleed seats.

Will they be clearing the stadium afterwards or will we be able to stay and cheer on Olivet? 

[Flying Dutch Fan]

This was pointed out to me tonight, thoughts?

Wednesday Feb 4, 2015

6 pm   Hope at Calvin  --men
8 pm   Olivet at Calvin  --women


Calvin actually has 3 6pm starts in a row on Wednesday

YUCK!!!

[sac]

This was pointed out to me tonight, thoughts?

Wednesday Feb 4, 2015

6 pm   Hope at Calvin  --men
8 pm   Olivet at Calvin  --women


Calvin actually has 3 6pm starts in a row on Wednesday

Perhaps the upheaval that has changed Michigan high school basketball in the name of parity has come to college?

It is based on equity.  Starting this year, on days with men/women double-headers, odd years the men will play the early game, even years the women will play the early game.

I don't think I necessarily care one way or the other, though some 6pm starts might be difficult to reach for some people if they have to travel after work.  (Hope men are only impacted once next year)



Other than the odd start time, the biggest problem with the Hope/Calvin game starting at 6 on a Wed. is the potential that it will not be televised.

[sac]

Concordia released its recruiting class for this fall:  http://www.concordiacardinals.com/article/2051.php

In that link you'll find Olivet's Eddie Rogers has transferred.

[Knight81]

This was pointed out to me tonight, thoughts?

Wednesday Feb 4, 2015

6 pm   Hope at Calvin  --men
8 pm   Olivet at Calvin  --women


Calvin actually has 3 6pm starts in a row on Wednesday

It appears the Title IX activists are at it again. A couple of them threatened to sue the GLIAC a few years ago, and rather than spend the time and money litigating the issue, the GLIAC backed down, and now the men and women alternate, with the men playing first one year and the women the next.

The results have been disastrous. Attendance for the men's weekday games is down when they play the early games (how many people can make it to a 6:00 game?) and women's attendance is the same. Also, when the men play the early game, the gym empties out after the end of the men's game, which is embarrassing for the women.

It's unfortunate someone doesn't stand up to these bullies, who would rather bankrupt college athletics than admit at most schools men's basketball is more popular than women's.

[SKOT]

This was pointed out to me tonight, thoughts?

Wednesday Feb 4, 2015

6 pm   Hope at Calvin  --men
8 pm   Olivet at Calvin  --women


Calvin actually has 3 6pm starts in a row on Wednesday

It appears the Title IX activists are at it again. A couple of them threatened to sue the GLIAC a few years ago, and rather than spend the time and money litigating the issue, the GLIAC backed down, and now the men and women alternate, with the men playing first one year and the women the next.

The results have been disastrous. Attendance for the men's weekday games is down when they play the early games (how many people can make it to a 6:00 game?) and women's attendance is the same. Also, when the men play the early game, the gym empties out after the end of the men's game, which is embarrassing for the women.

It's unfortunate someone doesn't stand up to these bullies, who would rather bankrupt college athletics than admit at most schools men's basketball is more popular than women's.

GVSU averaged 996 people at their 14 home games.  Even if you assume every person who walked in the door paid the full $9 price, that's still only $126,000 in revenue. GVSU just approved their 2014-2015 budget and allocated $6.5 million to athletic department spending. I have a strong feeling a few empty seats aren't going to bankrupt their athletic department.   

It also begs the question of what is the purpose of division III (and d2) college athletics? Is it to drive institutional revenues?  Is it to conveniently entertain the schools' supporters?  Is it to create an environment to help shape a bunch 18-22 year-old kids? 

https://gvsu.edu/cms3/assets/F9E62A9F-D964-F71C-588C69821AB780D5/2014-15_general_fund_budget.pdf

[sac]

The easiest way to avoid this would have been for the men to use the women's schedule and play men in one location, women in the other, byes on the St. Mary's dates.  The men's side of the MIAA reportedly shot that down, mostly because of having to start games in December.


If the Wed thing doesn't work or isn't satisfactory, it might be time to look into Tuesday or Thursday games to avoid the double-header issues.  I don't think Saturday double-headers are much of an issue since you can spread the game times out much more broadly.

[pointlem]

The easiest way to avoid this would have been for the men to use the women's schedule and play men in one location, women in the other, byes on the St. Mary's dates.  The men's side of the MIAA reportedly shot that down, mostly because of having to start games in December.


If the Wed thing doesn't work or isn't satisfactory, it might be time to look into Tuesday or Thursday games to avoid the double-header issues.  I don't think Saturday double-headers are much of an issue since you can spread the game times out much more broadly.

Isn't bringing St. Mary's into the league on the women's side is what created all these problems?  Additionally, Wednesday men/women or women/men double headers push JV games to alternate sites or days, with virtually no attendance, thus diminishing the JV student-athlete experience.  And when that happens the JV and varsity teams may be unable to travel together, thus driving up costs and camaraderie within the whole program (whether men's or women's).

Perhaps time to revisit the St. Mary's addition to the league . . . or to seek a men's-only program to balance St. Mary's?  Isn't that a way both to affirm gender equity (I've been uncomfortable with women's teams generally playing in the jv spot) and to reaffirm jv sports and  maximize fan participation and revenue?  Moreover, for fans the former mirror-image men's and women's schedules gave us a home game (men's or women's) every Wednesday and Saturday.  I much prefer that to two home games on some days, and none on others.

AD's . . . if you are reading this board . . . you've probably thought about these things.  Perhaps you could do something?