MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

oldknight · March 04, 2006, 09:53:25 PM

Sac: You gave a tremendous post in your summary on the game. I wasted my time putting up my own because I agree with everything you wrote and you added some detail I should have written myself. I look forward to your continued posting--HOPEfully all the way to Salem.

hope1 · March 04, 2006, 10:06:24 PM

that would be great if hope played home friday vs witt dean morehouse said on radio that the hope would problaby be playing at depauw next week they are the higher seed can not wait till they make the annoucment sunday

sac · March 04, 2006, 10:08:09 PM

It would be great but I'll be surprised if Hope hosts next week.

I think Hope's going to Springfield.

hope1 · March 04, 2006, 10:09:06 PM

what a good game tonight calvin played good it is to bad they met so early in the ncaa calvin will be good next year but hope still is playing on 4 more wins

Shareef23 · March 04, 2006, 10:17:25 PM

Well, well, well. Yes, my hands are still shaking. I could come on here and echo everyone else setiment that I saw one of the great games in a historic rivarly, but honestly that's not true. I saw a game controled start to finish by three men in striped shirts. They missed travel both ways, Meckes for example, and never established what a foul was. On one side of the court everytime someone dribbling the ball was touch they were put on the line and poor Caleb Veldhouse couldn't get a call until they fouled him intentially. I not saying Calvin would have won the game, but that offensive foul call was one of the worst calls I have ever seen in person. How do you not let the players decided the game? The fouls in the second half were 13 to 5 until Calvin's last possesion. It seemed as if everytime Calvin made a run it was stop by yes, free throws. I'll give Greg Immink props on that amazing shot and the fact that he is the only player, who steped it up at all tonight. Obviously, Hope struggles in close games. They look as if they have no clue what to do when a game is on the line. It would have been nice to see the players decided it and not the men with whistles.

AndersDY · March 04, 2006, 10:21:50 PM

Did the desperation 3 at the end hit the rim? I was certain it hit the side of the board from my angle, but my head may not have been clear.

I got the feeling early that Calvin's crowd wanted to ride the refs whenever they could. They went nuts on the very first foul called as Voison went up for a layup, but I have never heard a basketball make that flesh-like smack when hit by the defender. And did they really think Immink would get an offensive foul on the first half breakaway? Yes #50 came away with some damage, but he came from behind bringing the contact, I can't imagine how much Immink would have had to do to actually be the one called for the foul there. That said, Calvin fans certainly had some points on some interesting calls. I was sure curious about some calls against Hope (Calvin never travelled all game?), but Calvin certainly had some good arguments as the second half went on.

HOWEVER, as far as the Veldhouse foul, while the crowd was busy going nuts, you may have noticed Caleb's reaction which was certainly not that of someone who was innocent. If it was a horrible call, I have to imagine he would have acted a bit more surprised.

Iffy reffing to be sure, which is always bad to see in a tight game like that, but the Veldhouse charge did not appear to be the call to hang the refs in effigy over. (Answer to the removal of the ladder issue perhaps?)

MIdoubleA · March 04, 2006, 10:24:04 PM

Now a question for everyone...

Is Caleb's decision to keep the ball (with draayer open on the wing) a freshman mistake or a confidant choice? They say that winners want the ball in their hands when the game is on the line, so what do you think?

Not trying to bash Caleb's decision or anything, just wondering what you all think.

I also wanted to apologize to the Calvin fans for the behavior of annoying children at the game, and stupid Hope fans after the game. I saw kids trying to do something or other to your student section, and I heard some stupid Hope remarks after the game... Just so you know, we aren't all like that.

Quote from: Shareef23 on March 04, 2006, 10:17:25 PM
I'll give Greg Immink props on that amazing shot and the fact that he is the only player, who steped it up at all tonight.

Shareef, the question begs to be asked... did you even SEE Steven Cramer play tonight?

Shareef23 · March 04, 2006, 10:24:15 PM

Other random comments....
Good call by GVW to go a press. I felt it really rattled the Knights.
How many shots did Draayer take in the second half. He hit those two in a row and the three with about a min. left, but that's really all I remember. He seemed to have his stroke. You have to find a way to get him some shots. Anyway, I just really disappointed right now, but have fun next weekend whereever you play Hope. I have a feeling there will be several more tough contests the rest of the way.

KnightSlappy · March 04, 2006, 10:26:26 PM

First off let me say that I do not think that the refs lost the game for Calvin but I do think they made it very hard on the Knights. In the post they would let first contact go but call second contact (always on the defense). They would allow physical play and then call a block when a guard gets bumped on a drive. No consistancy was established so the players had no idea how to play because they didn't know what would be called.

An questional at best offensive foul in the last 20 seconds? Come on ref school 101 says no call.

Shareef23 · March 04, 2006, 10:27:08 PM

MIAA, talking about the end of the game. Sorry, if I didn't make that clear. It just looks as if no one wants the ball at the end except for Greg.

arena · March 04, 2006, 10:28:31 PM

Quote from: andersdy on March 04, 2006, 10:21:50 PM
Did the desperation 3 at the end hit the rim? I was certain it hit the side of the board from my angle, but my head may not have been clear.

I got the feeling early that Calvin's crowd wanted to ride the refs whenever they could. They went nuts on the very first foul called as Voison went up for a layup, but I have never heard a basketball make that flesh-like smack when hit by the defender. And did they really think Immink would get an offensive foul on the first half breakaway? Yes #50 came away with some damage, but he came from behind bringing the contact, I can't imagine how much Immink would have had to do to actually be the one called for the foul there. That said, Calvin fans certainly had some points on some interesting calls. I was sure curious about some calls against Hope (Calvin never travelled all game?), but Calvin certainly had some good arguments as the second half went on.

HOWEVER, as far as the Veldhouse foul, while the crowd was busy going nuts, you may have noticed Caleb's reaction which was certainly not that of someone who was innocent. If it was a horrible call, I have to imagine he would have acted a bit more surprised.

Iffy reffing to be sure, which is always bad to see in a tight game like that, but the Veldhouse charge did not appear to be the call to hang the refs in effigy over. (Answer to the removal of the ladder issue perhaps?)

What I saw from Veldhouse in that situation a player totally amused by the call. There are at least a couple ways to react to that. Get up and yell at the official, or walk away like he did. It was a bush league call.

sac · March 04, 2006, 10:28:52 PM

Nice ladder reference Andersdy.

Veldhouse's shot hit the backboard not the rim and was barely above the rim.

Ya know its sort of fun to be on the other side of a tough call in a Hope/Calvin game. A few weeks ago we were whiners etc etc.

I think I'll just sit back and enjoy........smoke 'em if ya got'em. 8)

Quote from: Shareef23 on March 04, 2006, 10:24:15 PM
Other random comments....
Good call by GVW to go a press. I felt it really rattled the Knights.

I agree 100%, in fact it was a critical element in the margin of victory. Phillips had two steals and makes in the backcourt alone......thats four points. Those were uncharacteristic mistakes by Calvin.

Shareef23 · March 04, 2006, 10:29:25 PM

The three at the end hit the side of the hoop.

GoKnights68 · March 04, 2006, 10:30:28 PM

Is Caleb's decision to keep the ball (with draayer open on the wing) a freshman mistake or a confidant choice? They say that winners want the ball in their hands when the game is on the line, so what do you think?

Not trying to bash Caleb's decision or anything, just wondering what you all think.

Should've passed it to him.

also wanted to apologize to the Calvin fans for the behavior of annoying children at the game, and stupid Hope fans after the game. I saw kids trying to do something or other to your student section, and I heard some stupid Hope remarks after the game... Just so you know, we aren't all like that.

Noticed that. Seems to be only those group of kids that were doing that crap. Should've been supervised?

And Cramer played great.

arena · March 04, 2006, 10:31:27 PM

Quote from: sac on March 04, 2006, 10:28:52 PM
Nice ladder reference Andersdy.

Veldhouse's shot hit the backboard not the rim and was barely above the rim.

Ya know its sort of fun to be on the other side of a tough call in a Hope/Calvin game. A few weeks ago we were whiners etc etc.

I think I'll just sit back and enjoy........smoke 'em if ya got'em. 8)

Quote from: Shareef23 on March 04, 2006, 10:24:15 PM
Other random comments....
Good call by GVW to go a press. I felt it really rattled the Knights.

I agree 100%, in fact it was a critical element in the margin of victory. Phillips had two steals and makes in the backcourt alone......thats four points. Those were uncharacteristic mistakes by Calvin.

I call this legitamate questioning of a call, not whining.