MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[devossed]

Chris Martin was impressive, but I agree with FDF that he is a cheap shot artist with a flair for flopping and whining. Any CCIW observers notice this as well, or is this just normal reactions from a passionate senior on the losing end of a close game?

Although Nick Michael scored 17 points, it looked like he had 17 traveling violations that Ernie Cryer and Tom Hoffman absolutely refused to call. He gets the arena's first "Patrick Ewing" award for most egregious interpretation of the step-and-a-half rule.

Must've been their retirement dinner was getting cold and they wanted to get to it as soon as possible...For those of you who missed the PA announcer's call at the end--this was (for both) their final game before retirement. Congrats to them on many fine years of service. They certainly made life in the league more colorful, if nothing else. But boy have they made some lousy calls at games I've been to, both at Hope and at Calvin!

It was disappointing to not see either Wolfe or Partridge for the Dutchmen. I've heard great things about both all fall, and I thought they could've made contributions in certain spots. (Props to Ryan Klein for stepping up in that spot and playing great D on Elmhurst). But hey, who can argue with a 17-point win on opening night?

[augiedad]

Elmhurst is picked to finish 3rd in the CCIW in the coaches poll.  Augustana is picked 2nd.  I know Titan Q picked Augie to finish ahead of Elmhurst too over on CCIW Chat.  Both are miles away from Illinois Wesleyan in our league in terms of talent from top to bottom though.

Chris Martin is a talented player and he puts up great stats, but he doesn't have a very good head on his shoulders.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

So does Albion fall completely out of the top 25? 

Does Hope break into the top 25? 

Could we have 3 MIAA teams in the top 25?

[Titan Q]

Early season "corrections" are pretty standard in any Top 25 poll.  As has been discussed on the message boards, Hope - the MIAA favorite - should have been in the preseason poll, while Albion (having lost a ton) is too high at #8.  By about mid-December, the poll will probably reflect the predicted order of finish in most conferences as the voters get a better feel for things.

The game in Holland Saturday went about as I expected.  Playing in the first game ever at Devos was a tall task for Elmhurst, a team I think will be very good by the time January rolls around.  The Bluejays will get a ton out of their non-conference games @ Hope, @ UW-Platteville, vs Hanover, and maybe @ Albion (in Albion Holiday Inn Tournament). 

[Picket Fence]

The Dutchmen looked good on Saturday. They handled the pressure of playing a good team in the new place very well.

Immink and Phillips looked great. I think everybody realized how important Immink was when he went down last season. Phillips showed why he was a pre-season All-American, as did Martin.

I did not think that Martin was as big of a hot head as some of the other Hope posters.  He played with a lot of passion and was able to keep the Blue Jays in the game.  I think Carlson and Phillips defense frustrated him towards the end of the game.  He's a good player.  The Elmhurt point guard was also a very solid player.  He didn't make a ton of mistakes and hit the open shots.

The word on Wolfe is that his defense is not up to par yet.  I would have imagined that if Hope needed to attempt a comeback with a ton of 3 balls that he would have seen some action.  I don't think Patridge is 100% yet.

It looks like the Select Bank tourney this year is going to be one of the best yet as far as the balance of the teams top to bottom.

[diehardfan]

I have to totally disagree with the comments by Augiedad. In fact, I disagree so much, I just wrote a ridiculously long post!

I have seen Martin play around 15-20 games in his career which is probably more than just about any poster on Posting Up, except for Greg Sager. I enjoy watching Martin play more than maybe only two or three d3basketball players I've ever seen, because he is unbelievably talented, and still has chosen to be such a hardworker. There are many very talented players, that I don't think much of because they are dirty players, or lazy, or arrogant. Martin could have been successful, while being B, and probably deserves to be C, but isn't.

I've seen Martin get pretty visibly frustrated before, when he, or his team isn't doing well. I think he has always put a lot on his shoulders, because, in the past, he really hasn't had the support he needed to lead the team to consistant success.

I also think he takes things harder than most people, but I've never thought it translated to intentionally dirty play. I think it's more that he is so physical, and moves so much faster than the rest of the people out there, that, what would often translate to an effective rebound or steal, ends up being a hard foul if things don't go quite right. Elmhurst has certainly had dirty players in the last few years, I don't think Martin is one of them.

I also would never classify anything I've seen from him as flopping or whining... Wheaton has has some killer floppers in our days, hehe, often to the point that it was funny, and I've seen more than my fair share of whiners... I haven't seen Martin do anything to merit that label.

From the looks of his stats, it looks like he had a terrible game for him. Terrible. Chris has consistantly been in the top of the CCIW for points and rebounds in his career... and has gotten close to triple doubles numerous times... I think there was an almost quad double once! But, he did come off a life threatening illness and surgery this summer, and it was pretty uncertain of whether or not he would play. (I'm sure this is in the Notables for D3hoops.com somewhere, if you want to check.) I'm guessing it would be difficult for him to be back to form yet, and that probably added to his frustration.

I was practically giddy, that dispite everything that Martin went though, that he decided to play. (just ask Pat Coleman who was forced to listen to it all!) Like, jumping around in circles happy... because I think that there just might be the cast at Elmhurst for them to do something special this year, and I've always felt that truly great players deserve what Kalsow and Point got... deep playoff runs. I probably will only get to see one or two games involving Elmhurst all year, unless Elmhurst makes it to Salem, since I am out here in D3basketball Siberia, but I'm just glad that other people could watch him play one more year.

There are times, when Chris is just beating the crap out of my guys on Wheaton, and it's just such beautiful basketball, that I have to restrain myself from clapping, even though I'm obviously really sad we're losing! I think that says something. If he is able to get back to his form last year, he is one of the best, if not THE best player in D3 basketball right now.  He deserves one last chance at Salem... and I'm sure Elmhurst, and Chris, prove that he deserves it this season as well, even if they didn't last night.

lol...  I guess this Greg Sager length post will teach you guys to diss Chris Martin. 

[diehardfan]

Right, so, anyway... the devos! wow! I mean... wow! WOW! Sounds so freeking cool! The Civic Center was so charming, with the noise and the excitement from so many teams fans, but especially theirs, that I've always thought Hope fans deserved nothing less than a truly outstanding place to watch their beloved team play... sounds like you got it! 

[Gregory Sager]

lol...  I guess this Greg Sager length post will teach you guys to diss Chris Martin. 

I agree.

[devossed]

April--
Martin still had a good game. He showed why he's an All-American talent-wise, and I know he will put up his usual amazing numbers again this season. However, it was Hope's outstanding team defense that limited him to just brief spurts of brilliance. It was an effort the Dutchmen had sorely been missing for 2 years, and they will go far if they keep playing that way.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I've seen Martin get pretty visibly frustrated before, when he, or his team isn't doing well. I think he has always put a lot on his shoulders, because, in the past, he really hasn't had the support he needed to lead the team to consistant success.

I also think he takes things harder than most people, but I've never thought it translated to intentionally dirty play.

That was really my point - I never intended to say he was a dirty player - even though others may have.  I would agree with augiedad that (based on this game) he wasn't very smart.  Losing your cool never really helps your team.


And I agree with devossed - Hope's defense was the reason for the frustration

[Civic Minded]

So many posts to reply to in such a short time!       So here goes:

goodknight -- Now I'm impressed (with your psychic abilities).  When it comes to weekly poll time, I'm waiting to see who you picked (and then shamelessly copying you).   

tniem -- Sounds like life is treating you well!  We'll look for you in December.

Regarding Calvin's freshmen -- reminds me of the year that Immink and Griffith and Spaman played as freshmen at Hope (and later Kleersnyder).  Excited for you guys; afraid I'll be counting the years until your freshmen graduate (like we did for Veenstra and Prins).  Congrats to you for some good recruiting.

sac -- the "insert name of bank here" tournament, or whatever you called it -- priceless!

Picket Fence, although a new poster, seems to be on the mark as far as Wolfe.  Additionally, I don't think his 3 point shot is up to his normal par right now.  When he gets warmed up and running, he'll be a great asset.  And I can't wait for Partridge to be back up to par -- he's fun to watch.

More basketball tomorrow -- can't wait! 

[diehardfan]

lol...  I guess this Greg Sager length post will teach you guys to diss Chris Martin. 

I agree.

Well, I did learn from the best!  

Guys I hope you are right about the defense thing. It would mean you guys have a great shot at the playoffs, and Andy totally deserves it (I feel weird talking about individual players, since it's a team sport, but eh). A team with good defense will perform much more consistantly, since your wins are less dependant on a hot shooting night. It seems, as an outsider, that consitancy is something that Hope has really needed in the recent past... certainly more than talent, of which they have plenty!

I don't know though, I mean, I find it hard to leave that someone could have a major surgery, not be planning to come back for a while, and still be in top form the next fall, even Chris Martin!   Greg, I sure hope you make it out there to a game and let me know what's what this season!  

[Dark Knight]

Excited for you guys; afraid I'll be counting the years until your freshmen graduate (like we did for Veenstra and Prins).

Hey, we've done our time counting years for Phillips and Immink, glad to have those clocks running out soon. It sounds like this will be Hope's year in the MIAA, though, and Hope's best chance at a nice NCAA run since...well...last year?

By the way, how many more years to count for Van Wieren? Was he a '62 Hope grad?

[sac]

Well I'd say there's a clock on VW and Turner and only they know what it says.  Sometime in the near future the MIAA is going to lose 2 of its all time most succesful and respected coaches.  My hunch and I have nothing to support this is the KVS won't be coaching a whole lot longer at Calvin either.  Even Buck has to hang it up someday down at Adrian. 

Interesting league in a way, at one point in the early 90's every team in the MIAA except Kzoo had a coach who had been at that school for at least 10 years.  Thats pretty unusual.....and since then every school except Hope, Albion and Adrian have changed coaches at least once.



Civic--I joke about the bank sponsor because I think we're on our third different entity, although Old Kent and "Fraction Bank" were the same.

I think the Hope/Calvin grads who work at Macatawa Bank ought to throw their hat in the sponsorship of this tournament......mostly because I think their the only local bank left and the only ones who seem to give a rip about West Michigan.  (Have I mentioned I'm a shareholder  )

Once again we're faced with a prime opportunity for another shot at a Hope/Calvin game in the bigger "Amway money" Arena.  Oh we've been let down so many times by an untimely upset.  I can't believe it hasn't happened yet.

Neither C'stone or Aquinas really scare me much this year, I think it would be a good win for Calvin over C'stone and this seems to be the closer of the two matchups.

HOWEVER, for Hope its the annual Aquinas mental block game.  The Saints just love beating Hope.  Should be a couple good ones.

Hope and AQ split two 15 points wins last year, in the last 16 meetings its 9-7 Hope.

....Not that I'm looking past Andrews tommorrow night........Who am I kidding, yes I am.

[Civic Minded]

Civic--I joke about the bank sponsor because I think we're on our third different entity, although Old Kent and "Fraction Bank" were the same.

....Not that I'm looking past Andrews tommorrow night........Who am I kidding, yes I am.

What?  You mean "Select Bank Tournament" doesn't mean select the bank of your choosing and insert it's name here?  (Okay, okay, very lame, and I apologize to Select Bank, yada, yada yada...)

I did a double take on the Andrews U. thing.  I grew up near Berrien Springs, and couldn't believe they had a team, for starters.  But I know you've seen Hope look past teams before, so let's hope they've been given the proper speech several times before 8pm tomorrow.