MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[knightvision]

Really nice piece from FOX 17 on the Holland Civic Center which hosted its final game last night.
http://fox17online.com/2017/02/28/a-final-tribute-to-the-holland-civic-center/

I don't think I'll ever find a place quite like that one.  The kids today call it lit, the Civic was lit a lot.

Fabulous piece indeed.  What great memories from that place

The first high school game I ever played was against Holland Christian at the Civic. Having grown up watching several Calvin/Hope matchups there, I was thrilled to be able to compete on that particular piece of West Michigan hardwood. When I scored the opening basket on the first possession of the game (a give-and-go drive to the hoop), I was even more thrilled. I remember the play like it happened last night. Does that make it a lit?

What would have made it lit back then was if the peach baskets had been removed and the electric scoreboards had been installed.

Fantastic atmosphere, but pretty sure I have been in outhouses that were less drafty and more soundproof than those locker rooms.  I swear I can remember being in the locker room at halftime and hearing GVW talking to his team....though that may have been because the heat was turned up so high that I was delusional.   

[oldknight]

Really nice piece from FOX 17 on the Holland Civic Center which hosted its final game last night.
http://fox17online.com/2017/02/28/a-final-tribute-to-the-holland-civic-center/

I don't think I'll ever find a place quite like that one.  The kids today call it lit, the Civic was lit a lot.

Fabulous piece indeed.  What great memories from that place

The first high school game I ever played was against Holland Christian at the Civic. Having grown up watching several Calvin/Hope matchups there, I was thrilled to be able to compete on that particular piece of West Michigan hardwood. When I scored the opening basket on the first possession of the game (a give-and-go drive to the hoop), I was even more thrilled. I remember the play like it happened last night. Does that make it a lit?

What would have made it lit back then was if the peach baskets had been removed and the electric scoreboards had been installed.

Fantastic atmosphere, but pretty sure I have been in outhouses that were less drafty and more soundproof than those locker rooms.  I swear I can remember being in the locker room at halftime and hearing GVW talking to his team....though that may have been because the heat was turned up so high that I was delusional.

You had locker rooms? When did they add those?

You forgot to mention how hard and dusty the playing floor was. At times it almost felt like skating. And I deny ever scoring into a peach basket, though I do remember the cages surrounding some floors.

[Young Knight 14]

Really nice piece from FOX 17 on the Holland Civic Center which hosted its final game last night.
http://fox17online.com/2017/02/28/a-final-tribute-to-the-holland-civic-center/

I don't think I'll ever find a place quite like that one.  The kids today call it lit, the Civic was lit a lot.

Fabulous piece indeed.  What great memories from that place

The first high school game I ever played was against Holland Christian at the Civic. Having grown up watching several Calvin/Hope matchups there, I was thrilled to be able to compete on that particular piece of West Michigan hardwood. When I scored the opening basket on the first possession of the game (a give-and-go drive to the hoop), I was even more thrilled. I remember the play like it happened last night. Does that make it a lit?

What would have made it lit back then was if the peach baskets had been removed and the electric scoreboards had been installed.

Fantastic atmosphere, but pretty sure I have been in outhouses that were less drafty and more soundproof than those locker rooms.  I swear I can remember being in the locker room at halftime and hearing GVW talking to his team....though that may have been because the heat was turned up so high that I was delusional.

You had locker rooms? When did they add those?

You forgot to mention how hard and dusty the playing floor was. At times it almost felt like skating. And I deny ever scoring into a peach basket, though I do remember the cages surrounding some floors.

Pre-game and halftime talks for the home team are now held in the shower so the other school doesn't hear the game plan.  Towards the end of the season both lights in shower burned out and weren't replaced making the viewing of the white board difficult.

[knightvision]

Really nice piece from FOX 17 on the Holland Civic Center which hosted its final game last night.
http://fox17online.com/2017/02/28/a-final-tribute-to-the-holland-civic-center/

I don't think I'll ever find a place quite like that one.  The kids today call it lit, the Civic was lit a lot.

Fabulous piece indeed.  What great memories from that place

The first high school game I ever played was against Holland Christian at the Civic. Having grown up watching several Calvin/Hope matchups there, I was thrilled to be able to compete on that particular piece of West Michigan hardwood. When I scored the opening basket on the first possession of the game (a give-and-go drive to the hoop), I was even more thrilled. I remember the play like it happened last night. Does that make it a lit?

What would have made it lit back then was if the peach baskets had been removed and the electric scoreboards had been installed.

Fantastic atmosphere, but pretty sure I have been in outhouses that were less drafty and more soundproof than those locker rooms.  I swear I can remember being in the locker room at halftime and hearing GVW talking to his team....though that may have been because the heat was turned up so high that I was delusional.

You had locker rooms? When did they add those?

You forgot to mention how hard and dusty the playing floor was. At times it almost felt like skating. And I deny ever scoring into a peach basket, though I do remember the cages surrounding some floors.

Not sure when they added them, but we did have something that once upon a time may have been considered a close approximation of a locker room.  I can assure you, however, that it would have been easier to change on the bus.

Didn't forget about the floor, just didn't want to detract from all the love being showered on the Civic.  At least they put enough layers of varnish on the floor so players didn't feel like they were playing on the surface of the moon.  Lest I be accused of being too negative, at least the lighting was really good 

[knightvision]

Hope has three first-team all league players, and one second-team. Calvin has no first-team players and one second-team. Yet Calvin, a team that a week and a half ago Hope fans would likely have unanimously denounced as inferior to their own, has beaten Hope twice in the past week on Hope's home floor. Am I the only Hope fan who finds this concerning? I think the situation requires more analysis than "that was a good game." So what are the possibilities? Here are a few that come to mind:

• Hope simply isn't as good as we thought.
• Calvin's coaching staff ran circles around Hope's coaching staff.
• Hope's lack of depth was exposed.
• Calvin fans have referred to their team's "toughness" and "resiliency." Is this an implicit criticism of Hope?
• Hope simply doesn't match-up well against Calvin.
• Calvin is doing a better job developing over the course of the season.

It's entirely possible I'm missing something. Also possible it's a combination of these things. A neutral observer I talked to, who knows basketball well, said to me "they flat-out outplayed Hope." As I said: this concerns me.

I have been patiently waiting for some Hope fan responses to your audacity in raising some concerns about your team, but alas, haven't seen any.  Stepping in to that void, as well as feeling compelled to offer a middle-aged response between the thoughts of oldknight and Young Knight 14, here's my 2 cents worth:

I think I could make a pretty compelling argument that rebounding statistics may be the best indicator of a teams toughness/desire/will.  Despite more hand check calls and an effort to cut down on perimeter bumping/impeding moves to the basket, it seems to me that physical play inside, particularly rebounding battles/scrums (e.g., the wrestling match previously noted between Blackledge and Canonie), continue to be allowed with no fouls called.  I can't tell you how many times this year I have seen the offensive player on the block during a free throw literally plow/push the defensive guy under the basket, and I can't recall a single time it has been whistled.   

Hope gave up 33 offensive rebounds in those two games.  They are currently ranked 218th in Division III  in total rebounding margin at -.3 per game.  There is not much more demoralizing than playing solid defense (which Hope does more often than not), forcing a team into a poor shot (especially with the shot clock running down), and then giving up an offensive rebound.  I have little doubt that GM has pointed this out to his squad, and if If I were a Hope fan, rebounding would probably be my biggest concern about this team.  Lack of frontcourt depth may be a contributor, but I would be hammering away at everyone, including my guards, to be glass monsters. 

[KnightSlappy]

Hope has three first-team all league players, and one second-team. Calvin has no first-team players and one second-team. Yet Calvin, a team that a week and a half ago Hope fans would likely have unanimously denounced as inferior to their own, has beaten Hope twice in the past week on Hope's home floor. Am I the only Hope fan who finds this concerning? I think the situation requires more analysis than "that was a good game." So what are the possibilities? Here are a few that come to mind:

• Hope simply isn't as good as we thought.
• Calvin's coaching staff ran circles around Hope's coaching staff.
• Hope's lack of depth was exposed.
• Calvin fans have referred to their team's "toughness" and "resiliency." Is this an implicit criticism of Hope?
• Hope simply doesn't match-up well against Calvin.
• Calvin is doing a better job developing over the course of the season.

It's entirely possible I'm missing something. Also possible it's a combination of these things. A neutral observer I talked to, who knows basketball well, said to me "they flat-out outplayed Hope." As I said: this concerns me.

I have been patiently waiting for some Hope fan responses to your audacity in raising some concerns about your team, but alas, haven't seen any.  Stepping in to that void, as well as feeling compelled to offer a middle-aged response between the thoughts of oldknight and Young Knight 14, here's my 2 cents worth:

I think I could make a pretty compelling argument that rebounding statistics may be the best indicator of a teams toughness/desire/will.  Despite more hand check calls and an effort to cut down on perimeter bumping/impeding moves to the basket, it seems to me that physical play inside, particularly rebounding battles/scrums (e.g., the wrestling match previously noted between Blackledge and Canonie), continue to be allowed with no fouls called.  I can't tell you how many times this year I have seen the offensive player on the block during a free throw literally plow/push the defensive guy under the basket, and I can't recall a single time it has been whistled.   

Hope gave up 33 offensive rebounds in those two games.  They are currently ranked 218th in Division III  in total rebounding margin at -.3 per game.  There is not much more demoralizing than playing solid defense (which Hope does more often than not), forcing a team into a poor shot (especially with the shot clock running down), and then giving up an offensive rebound.  I have little doubt that GM has pointed this out to his squad, and if If I were a Hope fan, rebounding would probably be my biggest concern about this team.  Lack of frontcourt depth may be a contributor, but I would be hammering away at everyone, including my guards, to be glass monsters.

Those offensive rebounds were a real killer in the 2nd half. Calvin missed 14 shots but Hope only rebounded 4 of them.

[goodknight]

Hope has three first-team all league players, and one second-team. Calvin has no first-team players and one second-team. Yet Calvin, a team that a week and a half ago Hope fans would likely have unanimously denounced as inferior to their own, has beaten Hope twice in the past week on Hope's home floor. Am I the only Hope fan who finds this concerning? I think the situation requires more analysis than "that was a good game." So what are the possibilities? Here are a few that come to mind:

• Hope simply isn't as good as we thought.
• Calvin's coaching staff ran circles around Hope's coaching staff.
• Hope's lack of depth was exposed.
• Calvin fans have referred to their team's "toughness" and "resiliency." Is this an implicit criticism of Hope?
• Hope simply doesn't match-up well against Calvin.
• Calvin is doing a better job developing over the course of the season.

It's entirely possible I'm missing something. Also possible it's a combination of these things. A neutral observer I talked to, who knows basketball well, said to me "they flat-out outplayed Hope." As I said: this concerns me.

I have been patiently waiting for some Hope fan responses to your audacity in raising some concerns about your team, but alas, haven't seen any.  Stepping in to that void, as well as feeling compelled to offer a middle-aged response between the thoughts of oldknight and Young Knight 14, here's my 2 cents worth:

I think I could make a pretty compelling argument that rebounding statistics may be the best indicator of a teams toughness/desire/will.  Despite more hand check calls and an effort to cut down on perimeter bumping/impeding moves to the basket, it seems to me that physical play inside, particularly rebounding battles/scrums (e.g., the wrestling match previously noted between Blackledge and Canonie), continue to be allowed with no fouls called.  I can't tell you how many times this year I have seen the offensive player on the block during a free throw literally plow/push the defensive guy under the basket, and I can't recall a single time it has been whistled.   

Hope gave up 33 offensive rebounds in those two games.  They are currently ranked 218th in Division III  in total rebounding margin at -.3 per game.  There is not much more demoralizing than playing solid defense (which Hope does more often than not), forcing a team into a poor shot (especially with the shot clock running down), and then giving up an offensive rebound.  I have little doubt that GM has pointed this out to his squad, and if If I were a Hope fan, rebounding would probably be my biggest concern about this team.  Lack of frontcourt depth may be a contributor, but I would be hammering away at everyone, including my guards, to be glass monsters.

I'd gladly buy a book entitled, "The Audacity of HopeConvert."

[northb]

Hope has three first-team all league players, and one second-team. Calvin has no first-team players and one second-team. Yet Calvin, a team that a week and a half ago Hope fans would likely have unanimously denounced as inferior to their own, has beaten Hope twice in the past week on Hope's home floor. Am I the only Hope fan who finds this concerning? I think the situation requires more analysis than "that was a good game." So what are the possibilities? Here are a few that come to mind:

• Hope simply isn't as good as we thought.
• Calvin's coaching staff ran circles around Hope's coaching staff.
• Hope's lack of depth was exposed.
• Calvin fans have referred to their team's "toughness" and "resiliency." Is this an implicit criticism of Hope?
• Hope simply doesn't match-up well against Calvin.
• Calvin is doing a better job developing over the course of the season.

It's entirely possible I'm missing something. Also possible it's a combination of these things. A neutral observer I talked to, who knows basketball well, said to me "they flat-out outplayed Hope." As I said: this concerns me.

I have been patiently waiting for some Hope fan responses to your audacity in raising some concerns about your team, but alas, haven't seen any.  Stepping in to that void, as well as feeling compelled to offer a middle-aged response between the thoughts of oldknight and Young Knight 14, here's my 2 cents worth:

I think I could make a pretty compelling argument that rebounding statistics may be the best indicator of a teams toughness/desire/will.  Despite more hand check calls and an effort to cut down on perimeter bumping/impeding moves to the basket, it seems to me that physical play inside, particularly rebounding battles/scrums (e.g., the wrestling match previously noted between Blackledge and Canonie), continue to be allowed with no fouls called.  I can't tell you how many times this year I have seen the offensive player on the block during a free throw literally plow/push the defensive guy under the basket, and I can't recall a single time it has been whistled.   

Hope gave up 33 offensive rebounds in those two games.  They are currently ranked 218th in Division III  in total rebounding margin at -.3 per game.  There is not much more demoralizing than playing solid defense (which Hope does more often than not), forcing a team into a poor shot (especially with the shot clock running down), and then giving up an offensive rebound.  I have little doubt that GM has pointed this out to his squad, and if If I were a Hope fan, rebounding would probably be my biggest concern about this team.  Lack of frontcourt depth may be a contributor, but I would be hammering away at everyone, including my guards, to be glass monsters.

I'd gladly buy a book entitled, "The Audacity of HopeConvert."

Give me an advance of $60,000,000 and I'll write it!

[HopeConvert]

Give me a $60 advance and I'll write it, even if it isn't audacious of me to say that.

Knightvision makes a pretty strong argument, I'd say.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Give me a $60 advance and I'll write it, even if it isn't audacious of me to say that.

Knightvision makes a pretty strong argument, I'd say.

I'll write it for a twin burger and fries. Gonna get them one way or another 

[Grutte Dirk]

... at least the lighting was really good 

Said everyone who liked a warm, orange haze bathing the court

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Game Day!!!  Saw on twitter last night that Marietta sold out their tickets in 7 minutes (assume that would be the host allotment of tickets).  I've been told that Bam Johnson seats 1500.  Interested to hear from any of the Knight faithful who will be there.  Should be a great atmosphere.  Best of luck to KVS and his team.

And I'm expecting a great atmosphere at De Vos as well.  Post season games seem to ensure a very engaged crowd of us orange clad folks.  I know I'm pumped about it, and looking forward to both games today.  Expecting WashU will win the first game (what a size advantage they have on Ripon), but also excited to se Ty Sabin for Ripon (guy has won national player of the week 3 times this season).

Hope v UWO I believe is the first game of the year where Massey has Hope the underdog.  Might be wrong about that for one of the very early games this year.  Massey predicts OWU by 3.  I'm predicting a Hope win (I know - big shock) in a very tough game.  UW school basketball is always hard fought, but I think the seniors on Hope's team will step up and get the win. 

[Pat Coleman]

Hope v OWU I believe is the first game of the year where Massey has Hope the underdog.  Might be wrong about that for one of the very early games this year.  Massey predicts OWU by 3.  I'm predicting a Hope win (I know - big shock) in a very tough game.  UW school basketball is always hard fought, but I think the seniors on Hope's team will step up and get the win. 

I was trying to figure out which Hope team was playing Ohio Wesleyan. UW-Oshkosh is better known by UWO.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Hope v OWU I believe is the first game of the year where Massey has Hope the underdog.  Might be wrong about that for one of the very early games this year.  Massey predicts OWU by 3.  I'm predicting a Hope win (I know - big shock) in a very tough game.  UW school basketball is always hard fought, but I think the seniors on Hope's team will step up and get the win. 

I was trying to figure out which Hope team was playing Ohio Wesleyan. UW-Oshkosh is better known by UWO.

Oops - I guess in the excitement of the day I had sudden onset dyslexia.  Fixed it above.  Hope that there's no sudden onset Tourette syndrome tonight

[sac]

Hope v OWU I believe is the first game of the year where Massey has Hope the underdog.  Might be wrong about that for one of the very early games this year.  Massey predicts OWU by 3.  I'm predicting a Hope win (I know - big shock) in a very tough game.  UW school basketball is always hard fought, but I think the seniors on Hope's team will step up and get the win. 

I was trying to figure out which Hope team was playing Ohio Wesleyan. UW-Oshkosh is better known by UWO.

Oops - I guess in the excitement of the day I had sudden onset dyslexia.  Fixed it above.  Hope that there's no sudden onset Tourette syndrome tonight

As a casual observer and witness in the area there is nothing "sudden" about it.