MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Civic Minded]

I find 50 hard to beleive since there were at least that many in line ahead of me.

It does seem a little suspicious -- but the line was for both men's and women's tickets, so maybe...

Man, that would be unusual.  There are more adults than that who go...

[veragrace]

There is now a bus leaving Hope tomorrow at 11am and word from the organizer is that way more than 50 tix have been sold.  Look out Ohio, here we come!

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I'm sure the 50 number is students.  There were at least 100 people in line to buy tickets on Wed morning - and it sounded like 4 might have abeen an average number of tickets purchased.  Add to that the parents & grandparents who already had tickets, and I'll bet there are over 600 Hope supporters there.

[scottiedawg]

The fan was indeed escorted out of the building, and his ticket stub was given to our 3-man by the security guard. 

[hornet fan]

We have always gotten screwed, ever since the Haklin era.

So the question of the day: do the memories of Haklin cause the refs to dislike Kzoo to this day? or does the lack of Tazmanian Devil-esque ranting toward the referees by post-Haklin coaches leave Kzoo at a disadvantage for negotiating with the refs?

I was poking fun at myself and other Hornet supporters, but I do have a theory on this...The Haklin era produced teams that would play great defense.  With that defense came a style that was in your face, including intense ball pressure, passing lane pressure, and great help defense.  With that came the appearance that the Hornets would grab, hold, hand check, etc.  Referees became accustom to calling K games a certain way.  Even when the Hornets switched to the "Pack" defense (less pressure, but similar principles), referees continued calling games the same way.  Supporters of the Orange and Black were frustrated by this. 

At times, referees will reward agression, other times they say it as a desparate attempt to hang around with superior talent, thus calling more fouls.  It just depends on the crew, the style of play, and GS is right, it is a part of the game.  

To answer the question, I believe it has more to do with the style of play than the personality roaming the sidelines...but, rarely do refs cause a loss...
With the exception of every Hope game.  In fact, I think the 3 guys in stripes were responsible for the 100-35 whipping the Hornets took a few years back.

[KnightSlappy]

Don't take this the wrong way, guys, but this room does more whining about the officials than just about any room on Posting Up. It's unseemly, and in my view it drags down a bit what is otherwise a great room filled with knowledgable and enthusiastic fans. It seems as though every MIAA game comes with commentary in here that devotes about three times as much space to complaining about the refs as it does to actually discussing what the players did.

Refs are human. They aren't a part of some grand conspiracy to rip off Hope/Calvin/Albion/Kazoo/Whatever. Bad calls are as much a part of the game as face-painting, pom pons, and sneaker squeaks. And all of your griping isn't going to change that one bit.

I know that complaining about the refs gives fans of the losing team a certain amount of psychological release. It's a lot easier to scapegoat some guy in stripes who isn't affiliated with your team than it is to assign responsibility for the loss to your team's players, or coach, or to -- gasp! -- give credit to the hated rival that bested your team. But blaming the refs always struck me as a cheap escape valve for one's frustrations. It's much healthier and more mature, IMO, to look defeat square in the eye than to pawn it off on someone else. I yell at the refs as much as the next guy during a game, but when the final horn sounds I dwell upon what the players and coaches did or didn't do to determine the outcome of the game.

Some of you will no doubt zap my karma and/or write me off as an outsider who doesn't understand how bad the refs can be in the MIAA. That's fine. But I've seen plenty of bad refs in my day -- they don't all carry Michigan driver's licenses, you know. And if you want to continue to use the MIAA room as a sounding board for your interminable zebra safaris, nobody's going to stop you. I'm just saying that IMO it brings down the level of discourse in what is otherwise an excellent room.

Great post but you missed one detail.  This room does a lot of complaining about the refs but I dont think many people argue that the refs "loose games" for teams.  I have often seen fans of winning teams complain about the officiating.  It is not so much whining or complaining but sort of a collective fan grumble.  Maybe the poor quality of officials is a hot topic because it is one of the few that Calvin and Hope fans can agree on.

[NW Hope Fan]

 In fact, I think the 3 guys in stripes were responsible for the 100-35 whipping the Hornets took a few years back.

LMAO 

[NW Hope Fan]

  Maybe the poor quality of officials is a hot topic because it is one of the few that Calvin and Hope fans can agree on.

With our nearly identical RCA/CRC history (and a good chance that the two will meet in the middle sooner than later, you do ordain women now...) and the number of dutch names at both institutions, there is much more that we agree on...

We had a very enjoyable satellite game here in Portland, and have created many new friendships. "THE RILVELRY" aside we have a lot in common.

[Gregory Sager]

Great post but you missed one detail.  This room does a lot of complaining about the refs but I dont think many people argue that the refs "loose games" for teams.  I have often seen fans of winning teams complain about the officiating.  It is not so much whining or complaining but sort of a collective fan grumble.  Maybe the poor quality of officials is a hot topic because it is one of the few that Calvin and Hope fans can agree on.

Except that they don't agree on it. Just take a look back over the last 24 hours' worth of posts in this room, specifically the most recent contretemps surrounding the refs; it degenerated very quickly into a "you complain about the refs more than we do," "no, you complain about the refs more than we do" back-and-forth between Hope and Calvin fans. It's all very silly, if you ask me.

And the constant barrage of ref comments are wearying even when it's the winning team's fans that are doing the complaining.

At times, referees will reward agression, other times they say it as a desparate attempt to hang around with superior talent, thus calling more fouls.  It just depends on the crew, the style of play, and GS is right, it is a part of the game.

I've always thought that there was a lot to be said for the old maxim that it's a team's responsibility to adjust to how the refs are calling a game. It's as much of an aspect of player and coaching acumen as is the in-game adjustment to the different offensive and defensive looks that your opponent is presenting to you.

[dren]

Is it friday yet?   

Still not friday?@@#@! 

Sigh... Soooooo close... can't wait to hit the road tomorrow.

[realist]

Way to go GS you have now managed to prolong the ref. discussion by two more pages.  Of course proving your point this board talks about refs. more than most.  Thanks we really needed your assistance.

[knightmoves]

Greg,

I couldn't have said it better myself. I was as surprised & upset as any of the Calvin fans when the call was made. However, it's time to let it go as there are always calls both ways during the game that everyone (including me) forgets about when a seemingly more crucial call is made because of the timing of it. Also, I absolutely love Caleb Velthouse & am salivating at the thought of 3 more years with him running the show. However, I personally feel he made the wrong decision on that particular play. Before all of my Calvin brothers & sisters jump all over me, I am not criticizing Caleb. In that kind of game & stage, split second decisions are made & you go with them. Everyone keeps discussing the call, but it is time to move on. I am going to enjoy listening to the games on the internet from here on out, be jealous of my fellow Hope fans,  & dream about next year!

[sac]

Way to go GS you have now managed to prolong the ref. discussion by two more pages.  Of course proving your point this board talks about refs. more than most.  Thanks we really needed your assistance.

Sager's sneaky that way

[Gregory Sager]

Way to go GS you have now managed to prolong the ref. discussion by two more pages.  Of course proving your point this board talks about refs. more than most.  Thanks we really needed your assistance.

Sager's sneaky that way

I cheat at cards, too. 

[dren]

Way to go GS you have now managed to prolong the ref. discussion by two more pages.  Of course proving your point this board talks about refs. more than most.  Thanks we really needed your assistance.

Sager's sneaky that way

I cheat at cards, too. 

Speaking of cards... anyone up for cards this weekend?  I can get atleast 4 or 5 players  if anyone is interested.   I'll bring the poker chips.   8)