MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

Started by sac, February 19, 2005, 11:51:56 AM

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KnightSlappy

I thought the refereeing was fine. I wouldn't go down that road as a Calvin fan.

AlwaysHope

Lots of talk about the foul situation, with Calvin making 4 free throws in only 8 attempts, while Hope was 24 for 29 (83%).  That made up for a substantial field goal advantage for the Knights (48.4% vs 38.1% for the Flying Dutchmen).

Yet the actual fouls called was much closer, with Hope whistled for 15 fouls vs. Calvin 21, including several by Calvin in the last minute to stop the clock and send Hope shooters to the line.  It seemed to me that fouls on the Knights were often in shooting situations, unlike many of Hope's fouls that usually resulted in Calvin taking the ball out of bounds.

I enjoyed watching the final minute as Calvin did everything possible to keep the ball out of Beckman's hands, while Hope successfully kept feeding him the ball which resulted in Jason going to the line (10 of 10 for the game)  He is now 20 for 20 in free throws in three MIAA games this year, and 83 out of 87 (95.4%) on the season.

And when was the last time the Flying Dutchmen outrebounded the Knights, in this case 41 - 37?

oldknight

Quote from: pointlem on January 11, 2018, 08:59:10 AM
Game summary: Hope "Winkled" Calvin. With the score tied and the shot-clock on its last second in the last minute, Dennis Townes threw up a long-range desperation shot that was bad enough to be good—missing the basket by a foot but caroming off the backboard and cleanly through the net.

Perhaps OldKnight will remember a similar desperation 40-foot shot by Aaron Winkle some years ago, that likewise was bad enough to be good . . . leading to a similarly unlikely Calvin win . . . and causing some Hope fans to muse that it was as if God really preferred the CRC, and to refer to an unintended backboard basket as "a Winkle."

Ergo, we feel your pain, OldKnight . . . a really tough game to lose after playing so well until the last 5 minutes (including those blocks . . . ouch!). Still, what a great game and atmosphere . . . DIII basketball atmosphere gets no better.

An endearing moment: After then air balling his first free throw as the clock was winding down, the hero Dennis Townes banged his head and seemed to smile at himself. Then, after missing the next, during a dead ball situation a moment later, he looked over at the Dew Crew and seemingly mocked himself by grabbing his neck to signal "choke" while laughing at his own miscues. If only we all had the humility to own and laugh at our own mistakes in life.

Yeah, it's those kind of serendipitous moments that can make the difference between winning and losing, and are remembered for many years--with fondness by the winners and with rueful sadness by the losers. On the other hand, Aaron Winkle was a D3 POY while Towns will not reach that status, so Aaron's shot seems (to me, at least) to be a less serendipitous moment.

Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 11, 2018, 09:11:56 AM
I thought the refereeing was fine. I wouldn't go down that road as a Calvin fan.

I agree with that. The reffing wasn't perfect but it never is. The fact of the matter is that Calvin flat-out lost a game they should have won and we all know that. I would also point out it always easier to remember the calls you should have gotten and forget the one's you shouldn't have. For example, while I thought none of Walters' nine amazing blocked shots deserved to be judged a foul, one of them in the second half was a clear goal-tending call the officials missed, and on an attempt I'm pretty sure was going in the basket. Calvin recovered the ball too so that made the missed call all the more damaging to Hope in a close game.

HupHolland

Congrats Dante Hawkins on being the 40th Flying Dutchman to reach 1000 career points! That makes 3 straight seasons for a player to reach 1000 (Blackledge, Gardner, Benson)

Makes me wonder who and when the next Hope player to reach 1000 points will be ???

MaroonKnighty

Quote from: HOPEful on January 11, 2018, 08:52:53 AM
Quote from: MaroonKnighty on January 10, 2018, 09:00:19 PM
Refs at DeVos are horrible.

I agree. Calvin got away with way too many fouls that DIDN'T get called and a couple blatant traveling violations. Calvin came out extremely aggressive. From my angle, there were a lot of "blocks" that looked like pretty clear fouls that didn't get called.

But despite the foul discrepancy, the only player that was ever really in trouble was Gutierrez, who in my opinion got way too much playing time anyways. But they still should have won! DeVries and Walter went a combined 9 for 11 from the field in the first half, 4 for 5 from 3. They stayed on floor a combined 24 minutes. In the second half, they went 2 for 5, 0 for 1 from 3, and Derrick only played 4 minutes! Instead Wilks, who did close to nothing in the first half, played 17 minutes in the second half and went 0 for 5 from the field. I would blame kvs before the refs on this one.

I posted that comment at half time when I was pretty happy with the score.  I don't blame the loss on the refs and never said that.  It was just an observation that the refs were pretty crappy last night as they are most nights in the MIAA.

sflzman

Obviously whenever there's a Hope/Calvin game everything else gets thrown to the side, but really interesting story line in the Alma game. Scots led wire to wire with Doug Bradfield and Kevin Gamble logging no minutes at all.

I actually noticed that in the second half against Calvin the intensity was much better when deploying the smaller lineup but interesting to see it deployed for 40 against Albion.

Freshman Amari Hudson logged his first real game action of the year and scored 10 points in 25 minutes.

I will be interesting to see how the Scots come out Saturday against Olivet
Be not afraid of greatness - Shakespeare

KnightSlappy

#44961
But, I mean, IF one wanted to gripe about the officiating I'd point to Hope's possession that began with about 2:12 left to play. Preston Granger enters the lane with 2:04 on the clock. Jason Beckman drives and attempts to pass to Granger at 2:02. The ball is tipped by Carlos Amoros and Granger secures and dishes to Teddy Ray at 2:00. Ray swings the ball to Dante Hawkins who drives at 1:55. Tony Canonie defends the play (and perhaps fouls) but the referee signals for "straight up" then "hand on top of ball". Hawkins bats the rebound at 1:53 and the ball travels through the rim from below (no violation is called). Granger (still in the lane) collects the ball after it is batted again and scores at 1:50. This tied the game at 69 and Calvin did not lead again.

As I have previously stated, however, I do not think the refs were a particularly large factor in the game. They were fine overall.

TUAngola

Quote from: Bulldog30 on January 10, 2018, 09:49:11 PM
Adrian wins in OT, 74 to 67 to go to 3 and 0 in the MIAA. It turned out to be very exciting, but more so in closeness because the execution was poor on both sides. (Though to be fair, especially to Trine, it's harder to see the amount of defensive pressure on a video feed)

Adrian really escaped with this one, but neither team really looked to take this. Adrian had a solid lead and though Trine made some good plays, largely led by Langston Johnson, they also performed poorly on offense. Justin Webster (and Tra'shon a few times)  forced a lot of tough shots. He, along with a few others, really didn't make the next pass that would've made for a far better shot in many instances.

Adrian also went away from Colbert and Kalonji in the 2nd half after their great starts. They still finished with 17 and 25 respectively and a combined 10 of 15 from 3.(!)

Though Webster and Heard forced some shots, they each did make some big baskets late that got them to overtime and won it there. And Jordan Harris who shot poorly again, did come up real clutch from the stripe with 4 for 4 in the final seconds of the game, and both on one-and-ones.

It's still early, but Adrian is in a real nice position right now.

Some notes: -What a great looking facility Trine just introduced! Look forward to that trip.

-Along the same lines, Trine's broadcast was also pretty solid despite the (unsurprising) homerism. Loved his shouts of "pure!" on some big 3's (Gus Johnson!). But make sure you show the score/time on stoppages.

-Adrian 15 turnovers to Trine's 21. Defense or sloppiness?

-Hope on Saturday at home. Gonna be their biggest test of the young season.

Go Bulldawgs!
Great recap of the game Bulldog30.  This was one heck of a ballgame.  I watched Adrian in the Trine holiday tournament in December and came away very impressed and knew that they would be a handful in the MIAA.  I thought defensively Trine played pretty decent throughout.  We made Webster work for everything he got.  We lost Kalonji on some 3's and Colbert had a spectacular shooting night from 3...his range is limitless, he was hitting them from Coldwater!  HA  If you had some more depth your team would be tough to beat night in and night out.  Kind of reminds me of the Trine teams a few years ago with Holmquist/Dixon et al, we had no depth, everyone played 35+ minutes.  Congrats on the big win!

Couple observations from the game.  First off, what a tremendous college atmosphere we have now with MTI Center.  It just felt like college basketball, which was lacking at Hershey Hall.  Band sounded awesome, students were into it...at least the 2nd half.  The 1st half was pretty quiet.  We got some work to do to be like the Hope student section.  Cheerleaders...meh...they don't cheer, just sit on the floor during the game.  It was up to the students to start some cheers for DEFENSE, etc.  Great turnout, over 1700, I dare say maybe the biggest crowd we've had, at least in the Trine era.

Curious player rotations from Coach Miller, not sure why Copeland only logged 13 minutes, maybe he was battling some sickness.  Coach didn't see too happy with his defense in the first half, and maybe that could have been the reason.  A game this big though you need your best on the court.  Johnson has his sweet stroke back, it was MIA earlier in the year, you can tell his is playing with a ton more confidence then earlier in the season.  TURNOVERS...man...28 against Olivet and another 21 tonight.  The guards have to make better passing decisions.  We try to force passes too much or telegraph them.

It was a great comeback by Trine, hit big shot after big shot down the stretch.  Our defense on Adrian's last possession of regulation was just awful though.  I would have liked to seen some sort of 3/4 press or something Adrian hadn't seen, the man on man was just too easy...half court pass to Webster and he made a bee line to the basket, all we could do was foul and hope he missed, which he did on the first, but hit the second to force OT.  After an early Trine 3, the OT belonged to Adrian, some bad possessions on our part, and Adrian got to the bucket and scored most of their pts at the free throw line.  Not disappointed in our effort though, overall it was just a great first game at MTI.


HOPEful

Quote from: MaroonKnighty on January 11, 2018, 11:20:02 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on January 11, 2018, 08:52:53 AM
Quote from: MaroonKnighty on January 10, 2018, 09:00:19 PM
Refs at DeVos are horrible.

I agree. Calvin got away with way too many fouls that DIDN'T get called and a couple blatant traveling violations. Calvin came out extremely aggressive. From my angle, there were a lot of "blocks" that looked like pretty clear fouls that didn't get called.

But despite the foul discrepancy, the only player that was ever really in trouble was Gutierrez, who in my opinion got way too much playing time anyways. But they still should have won! DeVries and Walter went a combined 9 for 11 from the field in the first half, 4 for 5 from 3. They stayed on floor a combined 24 minutes. In the second half, they went 2 for 5, 0 for 1 from 3, and Derrick only played 4 minutes! Instead Wilks, who did close to nothing in the first half, played 17 minutes in the second half and went 0 for 5 from the field. I would blame kvs before the refs on this one.

I posted that comment at half time when I was pretty happy with the score.  I don't blame the loss on the refs and never said that.  It was just an observation that the refs were pretty crappy last night as they are most nights in the MIAA.

Fair enough. I thought the refs did a comparatively good job (measured next to other MIAA games and considering the physicality and rivalry)... There were a handful of calls/non-calls that were very questionable, but probably pretty equal both directions.

I'm really intrigued to see where these teams sit when they meet again in GR! As of right now, you could make a strong case that there are 3 teams (Adrian, Trine, Olivet) better than both teams. Hope at Adrian and Trine at Calvin are both HUGE games this weekend for all 4 teams.
Let's go Dutchmen!

2015-2016 1-&-Done Tournament Fantasy League Co-Champion

HOPEful

 Also, is there a reason why DeVries only played four minutes in the second half? After arguably being the MVP of the first half, Unless he was injured, I feel like Calvin would've won If Derrick And Wilks Had a more equal share of minutes in the second half
Let's go Dutchmen!

2015-2016 1-&-Done Tournament Fantasy League Co-Champion

oldknight

#44966
Quote from: HOPEful on January 11, 2018, 04:51:24 PM
Also, is there a reason why DeVries only played four minutes in the second half? After arguably being the MVP of the first half, Unless he was injured, I feel like Calvin would've won If Derrick And Wilks Had a more equal share of minutes in the second half

I don't know the answer to your question and unless Calvin issues a press release (I'm waiting with bated breath), we are left to speculate. Since this is a board of speculation, let me offer my one cent (my wealth of hoops knowledge isn't large enough to offer two cents). There is no reason to believe DeVries was injured. He started the second half, played nearly three minutes, missed two shots, and came out. Derrick didn't reenter until 2:12 was left. Part of me understands that because Hope's press--which was very effective the first five minutes of the half, and dogged Calvin off and on to the end--doesn't seem to suit Derrick's game. He's not exactly fleet of foot and I'm guessing that there was something about the matchup that made KVS think he had a better option. If Wilks--who played 17 second half minutes--had played better, it might have worked out.

On the other hand, no one pressed Calvin with more abandon than Puget Sound who forced 29 turnovers. But unlike Hope, when the Loggers weren't forcing a turnover, they were giving up two-on-ones and three-on-ones to the Knights, which explains why Calvin was still able to score 93 points. Hope's press didn't offer those kinds of opportunities to Calvin. In the Puget Sound game, DeVries feasted, scoring 36, many of them layups after the Knights broke the press. If DeVries had played normal second half minutes against Hope, he wouldn't have scored liked he did in Spokane, but would he have been a difference maker in Holland? I would like to know but, alas, we never will. It certainly was strange, I will grant that.

CK150408

Since it hasn't quite been 24 hrs, I will add my two cents...As disappointing as that last 1:30 was (from my perspective anyway), I will say that the game was what most of us are looking for in a Calvin/Hope contest. Competitive at the end, despite questionable calls/no-calls going both ways officiated well enough that neither team should complain, and the whole arena was into that game to the very end.

A big turning point for me was the minute stretch from 4 to 3 min. left. Two guys who I'm sure wished they had both played better on the offensive end really swung this game. With 4 min left Teddy Ray was 0-9 from the field and Wilks was 1-5. Wilks took his 2nd three in a couple possession stretch that looked good to stretch the lead to 6 but didn't fall.  Ray came came down 68 seconds later and hit a three to bring the lead to 2 and really get the Hope crowd behind the Dutch. A Calvin TO, missed 3, and TO later Hope had the lead that they would not relinquish.

Anyway, now that that is behind us, really looking forward the Saturday slate. Going to be scoreboard watching already early in this season.

Flying Dutch Fan

Massey is predicting some really close games on Saturday (gonna be a tough weekend for those in the pick 'em I think):

Olivet 85, Alma 84 - 52% chance Olivet wins
Albion 66, Kalamazoo 65 - 52% chance Albion wins
Adrian 76, Hope 75 - 51% chance Adrian wins
Calvin 75, Trine 70 - 70% Chance Calvin wins
2016, 2020, 2022 MIAA Pick 'Em Champion

"Sports are kind of like passion and that's temporary in many cases, but academics - that's like true love and that's enduring." 
John Wooden

"Blame FDF.  That's the default.  Always blame FDF."
goodknight

sac

Preston Laketa has been removed from Alma's roster.