MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

arena · March 11, 2006, 09:35:18 AM

Quote from: miaafan2 on March 11, 2006, 09:21:28 AM
First of all, congratulations to Hope College on a remarkable season. No matter when your season ends, it is always a sad day. They exhibited a significant amount of heart last night in making the game close when I really didn't expect a comeback.

Second, I don't believe that I've read anything on this board thanking Andy Phillips for sacrificing so much this season. I am incredibly impressed with his humility this year, all for the sake of his TEAM. Being a senior and captain on the team, he certainly could have demanded to be the focus of the offense and made sure that his season statistics were more impressive. Add the dynamic that with all the "extra" chemistry issues, he could have had even more reasons to justify being the top dog. But that is not something he chose to do, and I'm sure that he had to be very intentional about it. I would also expect that he had to re-committ himself to this several (many?) times during the season.

Thanks for a wonderful season Andy! Thanks also for being a great leader in a very humble way!

You're right. A couple of years ago he was THE STAR of Hope basketball. MIAA MVP one year. He is a credit to his parents and Hope basketball. He always reminded me of Winckle.

formerd3db · March 11, 2006, 09:40:04 AM

Realizing that most of you haven't seen the othe teams play and, of course, that anything can happen in these tournaments as we've all discussed, which team do you all think has the best chance at winning the DIII title game? Will be interesting to hear everyone's various thoughts on this.

northb · March 11, 2006, 10:31:42 AM

Quote from: formerd3db on March 11, 2006, 09:40:04 AM
Realizing that most of you haven't seen the othe teams play and, of course, that anything can happen in these tournaments as we've all discussed, which team do you all think has the best chance at winning the DIII title game? Will be interesting to hear everyone's various thoughts on this.

I'll vote for the refs, they seem to be the ones that win each game.

ziggy · March 11, 2006, 10:35:57 AM

I think Witt will be out in one of the next two rounds. At times, they look completely inept on offense, and not all because of the Dutchmen Defense. On the right day, it looked like Calvin and Albion could beat that team. Right now, I would have to pick Illinois Wesleyan to take it home because they are playing well (obviously), already knocked off the top team, and come from a very good conference. they are used to playing top notch opponents and have been very successful.

northb · March 11, 2006, 10:42:34 AM

Quote from: pointlem on March 11, 2006, 08:35:50 AM
Hmmm. . . Hope has a 28-3 season, and the coach plots a defense that forces Wittenberg turnover after turnover and shuts down their two post players. Alas, the players miss free throws and open 3's and have several shots rim out. Even so, they play one of the nation's top teams to virtual draw on their home court. And after all this (not to mention having coached two previous teams that made it to the national championship game in a division that has almost 400 teams competing) there is a fairweather, short-memoried Hope fan that wants to trash the coach?

Well, at least no one is complaining about the refereeing!

Imagine Derek VS's last 3-point shot attempt that went in-and-out had stayed down, giving Hope the lead. That would be a credit to Derek (who looks to be a terrific key player on next year's team, btw) not the coach. But there would also be kudos for the coaching that brought them back. Or imagine that Veldhouse winning shot hadn't happened and that this sectional game had been played at the friendlier DeVos . . . .

But those things do happen. It's a game that involves luck and bounces and near misses and narrow escapes. When the ball drops, it's not the coach that made it. And when it's down and out, or when the free throws that would have made the difference don't fall, it's not the coach that misses them. Coaches assemble the team and can help get you to a certain point. (And every team's fans are impressed with the prowress of their own players, which individually may seem better in their eyes than the opposition's. I'll wager that Tiger Fan wouldn't trade Russ, Borchers, and Brady for any of Hope's talent.)

All said, if we're going to judge a coach and team, let's look at the big picture, which for Hope this year is 28-3, a 17-point average victory margin, no losses at home, winning their league's tournament on the opposition's home floor, and a run in a tournament in which 58 of 59 teams will end up on the losing side. All in all, I'm with Sac . . . a great year. I tip my hat to the players, first, and also to the coaches. And to some super fans, including those contributing to this board, as well!

I think the argument is that given all the talent he had, he should have gone all the way. I know, I know, the ball bounces this way and that, and you have to have alot of luck to win a National Championship (or two

), but player for player, Hope was too well stocked not to make it further. WWKVSD? We don't know, because he did not have all that talent. Since KVS came to Calvin, he has been consistently out-recruited by GVW for local players. Luckily, he can recruit effectively from other areas in North America (for instance, North Dakota), and does slip in some recruiting successes for local guys, too. Although we do know what KVS did with the players he inherited from Douma.

Should GVW leave? By no means. You have to look at the whole package: He gets the players onto the team, he just has not capitalized completely on what he has recruited. And even if he went 0-fer-06/07, he should still stay because Hope (like Calvin) is more than the wins, but developing kid players into Christian men.

Rats, there goes my karma...

miaafan2 · March 11, 2006, 10:50:53 AM

Quote from: northb on March 11, 2006, 10:42:34 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 11, 2006, 08:35:50 AM
Hmmm. . . Hope has a 28-3 season, and the coach plots a defense that forces Wittenberg turnover after turnover and shuts down their two post players. Alas, the players miss free throws and open 3's and have several shots rim out. Even so, they play one of the nation's top teams to virtual draw on their home court. And after all this (not to mention having coached two previous teams that made it to the national championship game in a division that has almost 400 teams competing) there is a fairweather, short-memoried Hope fan that wants to trash the coach?

Well, at least no one is complaining about the refereeing!

Imagine Derek VS's last 3-point shot attempt that went in-and-out had stayed down, giving Hope the lead. That would be a credit to Derek (who looks to be a terrific key player on next year's team, btw) not the coach. But there would also be kudos for the coaching that brought them back. Or imagine that Veldhouse winning shot hadn't happened and that this sectional game had been played at the friendlier DeVos . . . .

But those things do happen. It's a game that involves luck and bounces and near misses and narrow escapes. When the ball drops, it's not the coach that made it. And when it's down and out, or when the free throws that would have made the difference don't fall, it's not the coach that misses them. Coaches assemble the team and can help get you to a certain point. (And every team's fans are impressed with the prowress of their own players, which individually may seem better in their eyes than the opposition's. I'll wager that Tiger Fan wouldn't trade Russ, Borchers, and Brady for any of Hope's talent.)

All said, if we're going to judge a coach and team, let's look at the big picture, which for Hope this year is 28-3, a 17-point average victory margin, no losses at home, winning their league's tournament on the opposition's home floor, and a run in a tournament in which 58 of 59 teams will end up on the losing side. All in all, I'm with Sac . . . a great year. I tip my hat to the players, first, and also to the coaches. And to some super fans, including those contributing to this board, as well!

I think the argument is that given all the talent he had, he should have gone all the way. I know, I know, the ball bounces this way and that, and you have to have alot of luck to win a National Championship (or two ), but player for player, Hope was too well stocked not to make it further. WWKVSD? We don't know, because he did not have all that talent. Since KVS came to Calvin, he has been consistently out-recruited by GVW for local players. Luckily, he can recruit effectively from other areas in North America (for instance, North Dakota), and does slip in some recruiting successes for local guys, too. Although we do know what KVS did with the players he inherited from Douma.

Should GVW leave? By no means. You have to look at the whole package: He gets the players onto the team, he just has not capitalized completely on what he has recruited. And even if he went 0-fer-06/07, he should still stay because Hope (like Calvin) is more than the wins, but developing kid players into Christian men.

Rats, there goes my karma...

northb,

Thanks for the point at the end of your message. Since both Calvin and Hope are Christian colleges, their goals are not only about wins and losses. Along those lines, for those of you who enjoy reading, I highly recommend the book "Season of Life" by Jeffrey Marx. The book is based on Joe Ehrmann, who is a former NFL player, and currently a high school football coach. Excellent book to challenge the "win at all costs" mentality we too often have in our culture.

realist · March 11, 2006, 11:00:10 AM

Not a math major. You have one guy who plays 10% of the total minutes, and scores 20% of his team's points. Did the other teams defense just get out of his way? Is this guy that good? Was he on the floor at the end of the game? Hope played great defense, and Hope had an offensive sparkplug, but he plays just 4 minutes. I love this coach. Please keep him!!!

pointlem · March 11, 2006, 11:05:13 AM

Quote from: realist on March 11, 2006, 11:00:10 AM
Not a math major. You have one guy who plays 10% of the total minutes, and scores 20% of his team's points. Did the other teams defense just get out of his way? Is this guy that good? Was he on the floor at the end of the game? Hope played great defense, and Hope had an offensive sparkplug, but he plays just 4 minutes. I love this coach. Please keep him!!!

Actually, according to the stats sheet DVS played sixteen minutes . . .
See http://www.miaa.org/mbb/stats/0506/0310howi.htm

(It seemed like less than that to me, especially with Greg Immink only being out 8 minutes. But DVS played all of those 8 minutes, plus he actually was on the floor, with Greg, at the end of the game.)

dren · March 11, 2006, 11:20:14 AM

Time to lay off the coaching. They can only do so much to get the players ready. Scoring 17pts the first half and shooting 26% is terrible.

Apparently this coach was bad enough to defeat the MIAA conference champs in 3 of 4 games and advance further thru the NCAAs.

Bottom line Hope came out flat, worked hard to get themselves back in the game and ran out of steam. If Hope plays at the level in which they have been playing at durring the MIAA tourny they win this game 8 out of 10 times. If this game is at the DeVos they win it 9of10 times.

Congrats to Hope on a great season. Making it to the sweet 16 as a greatlakes team is tough to do any year. I'm proud of you guys.

realist · March 11, 2006, 11:30:58 AM

Dren; I agree. At no time was GVW on the floor. I already said I love the coach, and want him to stay.

I like all the respect that Hope posters are showing for Calvin. Saying the high-point of your season was beating Calvin 3 times, shows tremendous respect for the Knights. I am not 100% sure if the game had been played in Holland that the result would have been that much different. Based on Witt's record you may not have seen the best of their game last night either. They may just have played ugly better than the Dutchmen.

almcguirejr · March 11, 2006, 11:47:24 AM

Quote from: dren on March 11, 2006, 11:20:14 AM

Apparently this coach was bad enough to defeat the MIAA conference champs in 3 of 4 games and advance further thru the NCAAs.

Quote

Is this why they had that Roman numeral III on their shirts?

ChicagoHopeNut · March 11, 2006, 11:48:11 AM

Quote from: realist on March 11, 2006, 11:30:58 AM
Dren; I agree. At no time was GVW on the floor. I already said I love the coach, and want him to stay. I like all the respect that Hope posters are showing for Calvin. Saying the high-point of your season was beating Calvin 3 times, shows tremendous respect for the Knights.

Great Hope fans are turning into Bears or Cubs fans. It doesn't matter that you fail to win your conference or the NCAAs as long as you beat your rival a couple times. WRONG!!! I would willing lose to Calvin each time we play them for a number of years as long as we won the National Title. That's the reason you play!!!

Quote

I am not 100% sure if the game had been played in Holland that the result would have been that much different. Based on Witt's record you may not have seen the best of their game last night either. They may just have played ugly better than the Dutchmen.

Quote

Agreed, This was nowhere near Witt's best effort. Hill, the frosh that went crazy against us, was recovering from hives and two of their other regulars did not suit up last night if the Witt radio/internet feed broadcast was accurate. Hope is certainly good enough to beat Witt regularly but not 8 out of 10 or 9 out of 10 times, even at home.

hope1 · March 11, 2006, 12:13:30 PM

what a great seasson for hope 28-3 thank you seniors looking towards a another strong year next year to now going to the hope girls game

hornet fan · March 11, 2006, 12:15:24 PM

I do not want to quote everything that I hope to comment on...

Andy Phillips comes from a great family. It is no surprise to me that he was willing to sacrifice for the team. Taking nothing away from Brandon Crawford, he was a beast, if Andy had to play the role BC did, he could have put up huge numbers as well. He is a classy individual, and though we always wondered what it would be like if he were in a K uniform (we give Brad plenty of grief), you have to congratulate him and the Dutch on a fine season.

GVW is a fine coach. His record speaks for itself. He must be a great recruiter to get the players he gets. Having never been in a Hope lockerroom, I cannot picture him as a rah-rah fire 'em up kind of guy. Further, I never got the impression he was good at in-game adjustments. He seems to devise a gameplan and hopes his superior players will execute to win the game. Most of the time, that strategy works...

I was not at the game and did not listen/watch, but it seemed that all of the Witt posters said this game would be in the 50s. For Hope to win, they had to find a way to get it in the 60s or 70s. They did not. GVW supporters would say he did not shoot or pass the ball last night, however, a good coach would devise a gameplan to get his players good shots. Was this the case? Did Hope players have good, open looks and just not execute OR was this a poor gameplan causing them not to get good looks? Just asking, I do not have the answer...

Again, Congrats to Hope on a fine season. I can only hope for the day that the Hornets go 28-3 and advance to the Sweet 16...

TigerFan_1973 · March 11, 2006, 12:30:00 PM

Quote from: formerd3db on March 11, 2006, 09:40:04 AM
Realizing that most of you haven't seen the othe teams play and, of course, that anything can happen in these tournaments as we've all discussed, which team do you all think has the best chance at winning the DIII title game? Will be interesting to hear everyone's various thoughts on this.

Wittenberg Tigers.

Tune in tonight as they play Transylvania.