MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[realist]

All this conversation regarding a potential replacement for GVW is interesting.  It is interesting that Morehouse can coach the women's team, but is not qualified to be a professor at Hope.  This makes me ask the question why then would it be necessary for the men's coach to have credentials to be a professor?  Could a person coach at Hope, and only have a BA and teach freshmen PE as an instructor?  Was GVW given tenure track as a professor to keep him from leaving?  I just don't see GVW leaving at this time.  When he gets a banner, maybe, but until then he stays.

[Shareef23]

I think the BS chants are pretty much accepted at this poit by the NCAA. You can hear them on TV all the time. Now if Hope or Calvin students tried to pul this off we can have a seperate converstaion. What upsets me is the "Hope Sucks" and the calling the official a "whore". To put others down in a public place as a group is pretty deplorable and says alot about the individuals, who participate in such activities. I really can't comprehend what would posses someone to make such comments. The Albion student section were pretty bad last year during the regular season game. There were several "Calvin sucks" chants and things to the like. I understand getting involved in the game as a fan. I have rode officials before and even drop the bs bomb myself. It is something I am not proud at all and as a extremely competitive person it is something I had to work on. I really make comments to officials ever anymore and if I do it's usually polite and in a question. I don't see how chanting bs and calling officials names and insulting their calls helps your teams situation anyone. And if you're so unstable that you need to mock other teams in a public venue to make you feel better about you or your team, you might want to do some soul searching.

[Mr. Ypsi]

With tongue firmly planted in my cheek, I have now discovered why Hope's season took a premature end.  Over on the Final Four board I posted about FF participants and regular-season final poll, wondering if (by that standard) this was the strongest FF in the 7 year history of the poll (it is).  I found a curious anomaly (undoubtedly coincidental, but curious nonetheless).

In those 7 years, there have been four #1s in the FF (with Calvin, 2000, and UWSP, 2005, winning it all), Witt is the third #3 (with Williams, 2003, winning it all), Amherst is the third #4 (so far no winners), one #5, two #6s (with Otterbein, 2002, winning the title) - but NO #2 has ever made the Final Four!  If Hope could have gotten passed by Witt in the final regular season poll, 'history shows' that they would now be headed for Salem, with a 50% chance of winning the whole thing!  You were victimized by your own success!;)

[northb]

I think the BS chants are pretty much accepted at this poit by the NCAA. You can hear them on TV all the time. Now if Hope or Calvin students tried to pul this off we can have a seperate converstaion. What upsets me is the "Hope Sucks" and the calling the official a "whore". To put others down in a public place as a group is pretty deplorable and says alot about the individuals, who participate in such activities. I really can't comprehend what would posses someone to make such comments. The Albion student section were pretty bad last year during the regular season game. There were several "Calvin sucks" chants and things to the like. I understand getting involved in the game as a fan. I have rode officials before and even drop the bs bomb myself. It is something I am not proud at all and as a extremely competitive person it is something I had to work on. I really make comments to officials ever anymore and if I do it's usually polite and in a question. I don't see how chanting bs and calling officials names and insulting their calls helps your teams situation anyone. And if you're so unstable that you need to mock other teams in a public venue to make you feel better about you or your team, you might want to do some soul searching.

I have no problem with letting the ref know that he was entirely wrong on the call that went against my team, but never to do so in a profane manner.  This board has posted int he past about the need to thank the refs, too, when the correct call was hard to see, or even when it goes against your team.  But encouraging the ref to be less optically-impaired is part of the game.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Re: the behavior of DePauw 'fans':

If the situation was as reported (and I have no reason to doubt that it was), one obvious consequence is that DePauw should never even be CONSIDERED for hosting tournament games again until such time as they can give enforceable guantantees that such behavior will NOT be repeated (and if it is, that the offenders will be immediately ejected from the premises).

Both the BS and 'xxx sucks' chants have, deplorably, become so common that they seem to be tacitly legitimized, but I had never previously heard of 'whore' directed at officials or (according to at least one post) opposing players.  That is beyond despicable.  And I agree with the post that the even worse thing was that no DePauw officials did anything about it.  What the hell sort of a 'teaching institution' are they running down there in Greencastle?!

[sac]

I cannot believe I'm actually reading posts about who should replace VanWieren............and maybe the most disappointing post I've ever seen from a Hope fan......in MID GAME no less?  Thats just low.

This isn't D1 folks.

......and no you do not have to be a professor to coach any sport at Hope College as far as I know, neither of my golf coaches taught at Hope.




Mr Y, its an interesting theory.........Hope was passed by Witt in the final Great Lakes Regional poll apparently.  The only one that matters and the reason we were in Springfield this weekend.   I'd really like to know how beating Albion and Calvin merits being passed in the final regional poll.  That didn't make sense to me.

[AndersDY]

For any extra fuel needed against DePauw, one of the Dew Crew members down front commented that one of the costumed DePauw students looked like the Fonz and learned that this made him a "f--got." That was just one student though, which is nearly impossible to control, but the fact that similar venom became organized and consistent is the reason that the NCAA should seriously consider advising DePauw as to why home tournament games won't be played there any time soon.

Also out of curiousity, since we are the MIAA board, I should gripe about the officials and ask where the 2 FTs at the end of the first half went. Did they ever explain how there wouldn't have been shots for that last foul before halftime? Hope clearly had regained possession so it was not an offensive or even loose ball foul. Not that it matters now, but that was really inexplicable. Great great game anyway and even though a lot of the noise was hate-filled, that is the loudest women's game I've been apart of, one ear was actually ringing this morning. As much as it sucked to see the men finished, the women's game capped the weekend beautifully.

[sac]

Since the season's over I can now comfortably divulge my thoughts of Hope's true weakness without giving any scouting tips away.

Plain and simple it was far too easy to make Hope a perimeter team.......and Hope is not a great perimeter shooting team.  They were able to cover up this deficiency in a couple games earlier in the year when they had good shooting nights  but it was most blatantly obvious in their 3 losses.  Albion, Calvin and Wittenberg, each took the inside easy stuff away and made Hope shoot from the outside.

I think their inexplicable struggles to score in the final minutes of tight ballgames goes back to not having a strong inside post game.  They could never reliably pound it inside and get points or fouls in crucial situations.  Think back to 96 and 98 teams........when it got tough the ball went down low to Bosma, Muhlenberg or Merrit.

This is not a slam on their current frontline, its just the kind of players Hope has right now.......perimeter oriented forwards, slashers if you will.

So if your tall, have good post moves, a Sr in HS or a willing transfer  ..........I think they'll welcome you with open arms in Holland.

[formerd3db]

sac:
I have to agree with you about GVW.  It is premature to even think about that - he still has a lot of coaching left in him and is a great guy all around.  I'm sure we'll be seeing him at sidecourt for a long time to come, and it is my belief that when the time comes to step down in the longterm future, it will be when he wants to. 

[oldknight]

So if your tall, have good post moves, a Sr in HS or a willing transfer  ..........I think they'll welcome you with open arms in Holland.

Since any transfer occurring now would not be a mid-season transfer I would have no basis for criticism would I? 

[sac]

I hope this doesn't come across as too sappy but here goes........

I wanted to say a final thank you to the Hope basketball team for giving me and so many other Hope fans so much to look forward too.  I honestly think you guys left everything you had on the floor in Springfield, the fightback in the second half was truely an amazing rally that had all of us in Orange and Blue convinced this would be our year.  A bounce here and bounce there and I'm sure we'd be in Salem next week.  Sometimes things just aren't meant to be.   You've been a treat to watch, one of Hope's finest.

Going back to last November 27, I can count the number of days I was truely happy by the number of games Hope played since that date.  This has been by far the hardest season of following the Dutchmen I've ever had, but I looked forward to every game because it was a few hours I didn't have to think or worry about my dad and his illness.  Truely a great distraction to have.

Over the course of the final weeks of the season I've had a chance to meet a number of other posters or reaquaint myself in a couple of cases.  It was just great to talk basketball for few minutes, even if we don't always see eye to eye because of our loyalties.  I think I've always been known as sort of an aloof character, its just my nature I'm a quiet person, always have been.  You were all good therapy and I thank you.

Maybe you'd have to have attended Hope to understand why we get so defensive about certain things.   I don't know but I'm guilty of it myself, Hope is a special place filled with special people who do wonderful and amazing things for other people.  I'm reminded of that every basketball season.   The place changed my life and continues to change it every day.  Hope is the same place its always been, great people, great fans.  Like I said maybe you'd have to have attended to school to understand.  All I can say is Hope will be the same place with or without a Championship.  To paraphrase a famous movie "Banners, we don't need no stinkin' banners."

I honestly don't know what the next few months will bring for me, major changes I'm sure.  I don't know if I'll be in a position to give my opinions on next years Hope team but I certainly Hope I'll be close enough that I can.  I know I'll make it to as many as I can, you won't be able to keep me away.

So my final thank you for 2006........thank you To Ray and Sue Smith for the tickets , much appreciated.  Thank you Coach VanWieren for the kind words and to Jackie for the free hugs.  To Clare VanWieren the stories I'd never heard, To Bill Vandenberg, thanks for just being Bill.  To GoHope, also thanks for the hugs and her friend Max the insiteful stats.  To CivicMinded and FDF for all the pregame discussions and the humor, but mostly the Calvin Tickets that was awesome, even if it was a loss.  To Goodknight and Oldknight thanks for the opposing opinions and the kind words.  To Coach Turner and the Albion crew, thanks for putting up with me.  Finally to the other posters on this site, I just say thanks, its always fun.


Saturday morning brought a wave of emotions for me, not because Hope had lost and there's no more basketball but because my neice put it all in perspective for me when she told me she missed her grandpa.

Its just kids playing basketball isn't it.

[knights2000]

sac:
I have to agree with you about GVW.  It is premature to even think about that - he still has a lot of coaching left in him and is a great guy all around.  I'm sure we'll be seeing him at sidecourt for a long time to come, and it is my belief that when the time comes to step down in the longterm future, it will be when he wants to. 

very premature. he hasnt even decided to step down yet, and we are already talking about his replacement? lets talk about things as they go.

[AndersDY]

Sac, your last post was the reason I would have been really surprised if Hope had made it all the way this year. It is really hard to win 5 consecutive entirely loseable games (after feeding WLC to the wolves) when your outside shooting carries you. All year, pounding the ball inside was pretty optional so it's not really shocking that we couldn't suddenly do it when we really needed it against an extremely tough interior team. Unfortunately, Brandon Crawford was the one interior power player who really tested Hope in the MIAA so we were not ready to power to the hoop when the chips were down. Our defense was almost awesome enough to give the shooting a margin for error, but the rebounds didn't come along to keep the defense in control.

As I said before the tourney even started, we really can't get down on Hope for underachieving by missing the Elite 8. This was a team that had a great year and a chance for a deep run, but there is not a team in all of D3 which should get down on themselves for not beating Witt in their house. I wish we had a Salem trip to look forward to, but when you have a road to the Final Four through this Great Lakes bracket, hard to expect anything for sure. As many expected from the very original bracket, a Great Lakes vs. Midwest final of Witt vs. IWU looks like it would be a classic and I almost would want to go to Virginia to see it.

I'm thinking my powers of prediction will continue. Going back some 60 pages of tourney blabbering:

Since I brought up IWU, I would have a hard time picking against them in any tournament game. Has anyone noticed their roster sports EIGHT seniors this year? That's the formula for a big time sense of urgency in the tourney, and wow do I wonder how bare that cupboard might be next year.

Go IWU, I'll root for a title for the third member of the D3 triumvirate of attendance and perhaps they can get a bit of makeup for the banner which didn't come back to the midwest in '96.

Sac, as a sidenote, do you post on any other message boards for a different sports team from Michigan under a slightly different name? I thought of it after I met you on Friday, but perhaps we crossed cyber-paths elsewhere. Or somebody may just post at my other online time-waster with a similar name, just curious.

[Pat Coleman]

Re: the behavior of DePauw 'fans':

If the situation was as reported (and I have no reason to doubt that it was), one obvious consequence is that DePauw should never even be CONSIDERED for hosting tournament games again until such time as they can give enforceable guantantees that such behavior will NOT be repeated (and if it is, that the offenders will be immediately ejected from the premises).

Both the BS and 'xxx sucks' chants have, deplorably, become so common that they seem to be tacitly legitimized, but I had never previously heard of 'whore' directed at officials or (according to at least one post) opposing players.  That is beyond despicable.  And I agree with the post that the even worse thing was that no DePauw officials did anything about it.  What the hell sort of a 'teaching institution' are they running down there in Greencastle?!

I worked all afternoon on my email to the Hope Pres, Hope AD, Depauw Pres, Depauw AD, MIAA commish, SCAC commish, NCAA D3 womens GL rep, and NCAA D3 Commissioner on Sportsmanship and Ethical Conduct.  I'm sure I'll get some replies tomorrow.  I was sure to stress that in wasn't the fans that struck me as terrible... it was the lack of authority at the game.  I was also sure to stress that the Depauw players and coaches played very tough and had nothing to do with the actions of the Depauw fans.

Again... I encourage everyone to send a quick email down that list.  One complaint isn't much, but just 4 or 5 can raise some attention to the problem. 


David L. Neilson, MIAA Commissioner: miaacommish@ameritech.net
Ray Smith, Hope College AD: resmith@hope.edu
James E. Bultman, Hope College president: bultmanj@hope.edu
Steve Argo, SCAC Commissioner: sargo@scac-online.org
Robert G. Bottoms, Depauw President:   bbottoms@depauw.edu
Page Cotton,  Depauw AD:    pagecotton@depauw.edu
Rosalyn Fornari, Division III Women's Basketball Committee Great Lakes Rep (head coach at PSU Behrend College):  rxf16@psu.edu
Chuck Mitrano, Committee on Sportsmanship and Ethical Conduct DIII Commissioner cmitrano@Empire8.com

This is really off-topic here. There's a very underutilized MIAA women's board that should contain this line of discussion.

[bulldogalum]

Excellent posts, Sac, you'll be getting karma from me when I have a few more posts.