MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Yup - that's exactly what I meant

[sac]

What about those beautiful maroon and gold banners that hang from the rafters at the
fieldhouse? You're telling us there is no envy that the ceiling at the "dick" is empty of
such banners?

I thought we stole those? 


We have 2 banners...........they're just a different gender.

[sac]

  INSIGHT:  I have heard that the financial aid packages at Hope are overall LOWER than competing MIAA schools.

That is correct, Hope's average financial aide to athletes was less than Albion, Kalamazoo, Calvin.  Their total endowment also ranks behind these schools.  Its way back in the early November archives if anyone wants to look it up.

They key word is AVERAGE.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Noted this on the women's MIAA board, but it's a big enough deal to mention here as well.  Bria Ebels is one of the Faces in the Crowd of the current issue of Sports Illustrated.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/scorecard/faces/2006/04/10/

[almcguirejr]

We have 2 banners...........they're just a different gender.

There is a women's site devoted to the discussion of those. 

[Civic Minded]

Besides - we'll never be jealouse of anything that is maroon and gold (or whatever those colors are). 

What about those beautiful maroon and gold banners that hang from the rafters at the
fieldhouse?  You're telling us there is no envy that the ceiling at the "dick" is empty of
such banners?

See, here is the defining difference between Calvin and Hope fans...  Calvin fans are rabidly proud of their banners (pieces of cloth with some words on them).  Hope fans are proud of their teams, and the individuals they represent.  Seriously, I don't really care, do you?  I've been to Salem the last time Hope's men went, and I was at Springfield Mass. this year watching the women hug the walnut and bronze, and while I'm happy for whichever individuals get that far in a season, I really am not impressed by a banner or what it represents.  As soon as it's won, its history.

Now, many of you will doubt my sincerity (and perhaps my sanity), but that's the way I see it.  You can point to two banners and say "see?  We were really cool back then."  I can point to about 40 Hope players and say "See?  He's a friend of mine, and I'm really proud of who he is as a person, and how he played back then."  I admit its a subtle difference that you may never understand, but, well, who cares?   

[almcguirejr]

See, here is the defining difference between Calvin and Hope fans...  Calvin fans are rabidly proud of their banners (pieces of cloth with some words on them).  Hope fans are proud of their teams, and the individuals they represent. 

I question whether you're expert enough to tell anyone  what the defining difference is between Calvin and Hope fans.  Calvin fans are proud of their teams and the individuals they represent.  Calvin grads can point to 40 players and say he's a friend, and be really proud of who he is.  A person can be all that and still raise a banner.

Appearance is only everything to those who are shallow, suspicious, and jealous. Why does this hit such a nerve with you? Why do you even care? You state that you don't have facts, and yet you will throw speculation out there. That's irresponsible.

It seems you are now using the way things appear to you, to label all Calvin fans.  Earlier today you were critical of someone else for doing that.  That seems hypocritical.

[Pat Coleman]

We have 2 banners...........they're just a different gender.

There is a women's site devoted to the discussion of those. 

[Shareef23]

FDF nice spelling error right after correcting me. Of course you probably did that to make it even more funny, right. Read the post instead of turning what you want it to be. I said Hope could get ahold if these kids if they wanted to. Not that they did. It's funny how one can hold a building in someones face but not a banner.   And you know what heck yes am I going to point at the banners. That is what it's all about. Friendships are made no matter what. It's hard to judge a program on how many friends or memories they give someone. Maybe the next Calvin-Hope game the Dew Crew can chant, "We've got friends!"   Al, some fail to use reason. They think they can use double standards and such. Go for it. Their glasses are dark. I say that Hope didn't cheat but it looks weird. Next thing ya know I'm saying Hope cheated. Honestly, people's defense of the topic shows alot. And talking about financial aid is stupid. If a program WAS cheating it wouldn't be that obvious. They'd hide it, not put it on public record. Great, now tommorrow, I will come on here and people will say, I said that Hope lies on their financial aid forms. I can't wait.  

[Flying Dutch Fan]

My absolute last comment on this subject..

And you know what heck yes am I going to point at the banners. That is what it's all about.

And that defines the difference

[EC Knight]

If I'm understanding what you're insinuating correctly, FDF, I think I disagree. KVS and GVW won't say they're coaching basketball solely to make friends. Those two are extremely competitive men, and there is nothing wrong with that. I don't think I'd want a non-competitive man at the helm of my school's college basketball team. I know KVS is proud of those banners, and those of us Calvin alums and students who care about basketball and sports in general do too.

Making friends and helping develop young men is a huge bonus to the whole process. In fact, by developing the young athletes that KVS, GVW and Mr. Turner get their hands on, they give themselves a better chance at winning in the end too.

Bottom line, both aspects of the college game are important. Sadly, you don't see too many coaches getting fired for misusing and improper bringing up of their young charges. You do see them get fired for losing. Granted, that is a little different at the DIII level and at Christian Colleges... but not too far off the mark.

Shareef, I'm going to back you up on your original point that everyone seems to keep twisting. It did look wierd for Hope to bring in all the transfers. It worked pretty well, they had a great year, but it is odd, you don't see that kind of thing happening everyday. This forum has been filled with discussion over the matter for the last 5-6 months, so obviously somethings not the norm here.
However, I think you could have brought it up in a much less agressive/offensive way and we would've avoided this whole petty personal school bashing thats been going on lately. Time to remember that at the heart of it, Calvin and Hope aren't all that different. We both want to play basketball (and other sports) well and beat each other, and to uphold high moral standards in doing so. Let's try to respect each other, I know the players do. This is a forum for free opinion after all, so I doubt the poetic/Biblical references for telling others to keep silent will work too well.

Aside, Intramural team is down for the count on after a late 3-pointer in the first round of the playoffs tonight... heart-rending. Only one varsity pick-up on this team, and he didn't play much this year, a Mr. Tim Katt. Had my stuff swatted by him once though....

[Flea]

However, when a progrem brings in Wolfe, Hare, Vander Hiede, Van Solkema who were on scholarship to pay 28 g a year. It looks weird.  That doesn't mean that Hope cheats, but no one can look at that and not be suspious. No matter how darkly tinted your glasses are, deep down even Hope fans have to wonder.

I can look at it and not think Hope cheats, or think it's weird, or get suspicious, or wonder.  Why do we get in a frenzy when the rich get richer?  It seems like the teams with quality programs, beginning with academics and atmosphere, draw the best players.

More and more students are losing their admiration for the athletic scholarship after they spend a year or two in a crap-hole so there mom can tell everyone at church they are going to such-and-such school on scholarship.

Plus, to some of those mentioned in your post, $28k is a drop in the bucket.

... and remember, I hate Hope.

[ziggy]

Did anyone ever consider that maybe DVS left Leastern Michigan University for Hope because he wanted an actual college education?

Mr. Ypsi's enraged reply to Ziggy in 5 ... 4 ... 3 ... 2 ...

Nah, some posts are too dumb to be worth a perfectly good rage.

Southeastern Michigan has Leastern Michigan and Schoolcraft College, but I already went to high school

[Flea]

... I'm going to buy Hope some MIAA Championship banners to hang around the place ... Maybe then it would look like the "Garden".

I think Hope's NCAA runner-up banners are stretching it.

If Calvin put up NCAA 2nd place banners they'd add 11 banners ...

... to go along with the 7 NCAA Championship banners ...

... it'd look like they'd hung Buddhist prayer flags in the Fieldhouse.

How many NCAA Championships will Hope have to win before they take down the NCAA 2nd place banners?

BTW. What teams/schools buy rings for teams when they win a MIAA title?

[Flying Dutch Fan]

How many NCAA Championships will Hope have to win before they take down the NCAA 2nd place banners?

What's wrong with a second place banner?  Should they give back the trophies as well?