MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[northb]

I've got to chime in on this Cornerstone issue. I can't speak for past problems with Cornerstone, but I have to say that I have not been overly impressed with the class of the program. Every institution has scandals and black sheep, but it seems to be a pervasive attitude amongst Cornerstone players to be as cocky and classless as they can be. I know that not all players at Cornerstone are like that, but a good many of them are. It just seems that character and leadership qualities are not encouraged or built up in that program. This is coming from one extremely biased observer, being a Calvin fan and all. That said, no team that Calvin plays against draws my ire like Cornerstone.
Possibly the only group comparable is Albion's fans, and they are usually extremely funny and not cocky. You get the feeling at the game that it's all in good intent (at least good intent for their own team, not yours). Not the same feeling with Cornerstone. With my 20-20 hindsight vision, if I were just coming out of high school and being recruited by an MIAA school or Cornerstone, I don't think I would let the money sway my decision over the atmosphere of the place. But of course, I'm speaking from biased hindsight.

Another aspect may be the Cornerstone has improved.  A while back, it was more fun to play them.  We would have a good game, but usually (Calvin) would beat them.  It is always more fun to beat a scholarship team.  This has not been the case more recently.  What is the Hope v. Cornerstone record in the last few years?  Any other MIAA opponents? Also, the suspicions of some shenanigans regarding the whole Foltice affair may still linger and smart for some fans.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I've got to chime in on this Cornerstone issue. I can't speak for past problems with Cornerstone, but I have to say that I have not been overly impressed with the class of the program. Every institution has scandals and black sheep, but it seems to be a pervasive attitude amongst Cornerstone players to be as cocky and classless as they can be. I know that not all players at Cornerstone are like that, but a good many of them are. It just seems that character and leadership qualities are not encouraged or built up in that program. This is coming from one extremely biased observer, being a Calvin fan and all. That said, no team that Calvin plays against draws my ire like Cornerstone.
Possibly the only group comparable is Albion's fans, and they are usually extremely funny and not cocky. You get the feeling at the game that it's all in good intent (at least good intent for their own team, not yours). Not the same feeling with Cornerstone. With my 20-20 hindsight vision, if I were just coming out of high school and being recruited by an MIAA school or Cornerstone, I don't think I would let the money sway my decision over the atmosphere of the place. But of course, I'm speaking from biased hindsight.

Another aspect may be the Cornerstone has improved.  A while back, it was more fun to play them.  We would have a good game, but usually (Calvin) would beat them.  It is always more fun to beat a scholarship team.  This has not been the case more recently.  What is the Hope v. Cornerstone record in the last few years?  Any other MIAA opponents? Also, the suspicions of some shenanigans regarding the whole Foltice affair may still linger and smart for some fans.

Since the 94-95 season Hope is 8-8 against Cornerstone.  Interesting thing is that starting in 96, Hope won 5 straight, followed by Cornerstone winning 5 straight.  The last four years they have each won twice.

Prior to 94 (when Cornerstone was Grand Rapids Baptist) Hope was 9-2 against them.

[Shareef23]

Josh Englesma of Covenant Christian is officially a Knight.

[Shareef23]

I think all that needs to be said of the Cornerstone thing is this, Calvin and Hope no longer play them except in the whatever bank it is this year classic. They both used to play them every year plus this tournament. I remember Howie Beardsley's article in the press on this about 3 or 4 years ago and he said that Hope and Calvin were ducking them. I'm pretty sure that isn't the case as both teams usually play pretty tough schedules. I find it weird that Cornerstone gets pulled by both schools in the same year. To me that speaks volumes of how both these schools view C-Stone. I think the school is a stand up University but the man at the helm of the hoops program seems to be a little shady.

[Bob MacKenzie]

One thing I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned in the C'stone/MIAA discussion is the quality of the education.  University?  Ya right!  I'd say a student athlete interested in getting a great education (not to mention the cache attached to the diploma) ought to pick any MIAA school over the Golden Eagles--if they've got the academic potential to succeed there. 

[ziggy]

Calvin will be traveling to Wooster to play in the holiday tournament in Dec.

Is there a preliminary schedule posted anywhere?

[Flying Dutch Fan]

The other thing that has caused Calvin and Hope to take C'Stone off their schedules (other than the Van Andel tournament) is that it's a wasted game from a DIII perspective.  If you go back a few years, you can find several when Hope and C'Stone played 3 times in one year.  With the current NCAA rules about what games "count", it makes sense to see the change.

[almcguirejr]

Calvin will be traveling to Wooster to play in the holiday tournament in Dec.

Is there a preliminary schedule posted anywhere?

No, I was given that information by a reliable source.

[Shareef23]

Calvin has no problems wasting a game on Ferris or Grace Bible. Hope had Grace on their schedule until this year. And we know that neither school is ducking C'Stone. Calvin also play at Regis last year another D 2 school. They both also put Aquinas on the schedule. Wasted game. Both Calvin and Hope don't set up their schedules to get into the tournament. They schedule games to make them a better team.  I believe that both KVS and GVW had very little respect for one, Kim Elders.

[SBell]

If you're going to schedule opponents based on a coach's character ... why'd Hope play Calvin so often during the Douma years?

[Flying Dutch Fan]

If you're going to schedule opponents based on a coach's character ... why'd Hope play Calvin so often during the Douma years?

Intentional foul - 2 shots and the ball to Calvin

[Shareef23]

They were required to. They might not have otherwise and personally I wouldn't have had a problem with it. Douma was a sleazy you know what. And btw it appears that Cornerstone is trying to turn thingsd around as of late. The whole Voorhees and Bronkema thing said alot to me. Maybe Elders has come to see the error in his ways and is trying to change the way he does things.

[realist]

FDF:  Karma to you my friend.  Some of these new posters don't have a clue or the history to really understand the Douma years.

[oldknight]

Josh Englesma of Covenant Christian is officially a Knight.

If the Knights got this kid they came away with a pretty good little-known recruit. I saw Engelsma play once earlier this year and walked out of the gym that night quite impressed. He's a hard working 6'6" post player with pretty solid skills. He jumps well, has a nice touch around the rim, and he didn't seem to shy away from physical play either. It's been a few years since Covenant has produced a quality D3 player (I believe Grace Bible's post player is a Charger alum) but Hope was quite pleased with the results of getting Meulenberg and Holstege a few years back and I wouldn't be surprised if Knight fans have similar good feelings about Englesma before he's done playing.

[oldknight]

If you're going to schedule opponents based on a coach's character ... why'd Hope play Calvin so often during the Douma years?

Intentional foul - 2 shots and the ball to Calvin

Good karma to FDF for that response.   8)