MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Dark Knight]

I understood the old NCAA goals of minimizing travel in D3. But I don't understand this: why is it that Wheaton v. Calvin doesn't count as a regional game, but Wheaton could play Polar U in NW Alaska and have it count? What exactly is the NCAA trying to promote with these rules? 

Contrary to popular belief, the NCAA officials are not blithering idiots or acting on a whim.  They are trying to set up the best criteria for the most amount of schools.  You can complain about it here all you want, but who has a better idea?  Really--post it here, but consider the criteria that the NCAA has to contend with:
1) There is limited money for travel .
2) The mission of DIII is to keep academics a priority--long trips away from school when class is in session does not prioritize academics.
... 

As I said, I understand the desire to limit travel in DIII. However, this change, which makes more games "in-region," does just the opposite.

My question was a serious one. The NCAA is apparently not trying to minimize travel time with this change -- so what are they trying to do? Back off from regions? Make inter-regional team comparisons based on regional data more fair?

These rules are made by committee, so there may be no one coherent motivation that all members subscribe to.

[diehardfan]

Because I thought it would be fun, here's a poll about the Calvin Wheaton thing. 

[formerd3db]

I'd like to "jump in" here if I may.  Indeed, it is sometimes difficult to understand just what the NCAA committee(s) are thinking.  I do not believe that they are a "bunch of blithering idiots" (not my term ) or acting on a whim, yet on the other hand, like many other fans/posters here, I don't agree with all of their decisions, or for that matter, find many of them logical and/or consistent with the DIII philosophy.  The travel $ issue is understandable, if they are basing some of the decision on that, yet as it has been pointed out, it is questionable or not sure exactly what their thinking/planning in that regard has been.

In a very pertinent and tangible issue, the further question arises as to the seemingly ludicrous (seemingly? , heck it is ludicrous) policy of restricting the rosters of the playoff teams.  Please forgive me for bringing this up, esepcially if it has been discussed previously and I missed it, although in a quick "scroll" of past postings I didn't appear to see any postings concerning this.  Anyway, when Hope women's team was at the finals, by NCAA rules, they were only allowed to dress 15 women players for the game (Hope had 16 players on the roster).  One very unselfish, courageous, truly team player and heronine on Hope's team, Junior Becky Bosserd, volunteered to be the one.  I (as do many others) admire her for such an unselfish act.  Yet, what a travesty and IMHO, once again, one of the hypcritcal NCAA misguided rules.  A "once-in-a-lifetime" opportunity to be in the finals for such players, and dressing one more player would not have made any difference with regard to $ issues.

Now, I realize there will be those that say "rules are rules" and indeed, it had to be followed, however, I do not think that is a reasonable rule at all.  We've had this discussion extensively in the past over on the football boards with regard to the DIII playoffs and Stagg Bowl, and I realize that football may be "perhaps" in a different situation with regards to the larger #'s invovlved with the rosters and, thus, the $ appropriated.  Yet there are without question, many reasonable and easily accomplished solutions in how to address/solve that, but the NCAA won't do it (while at the same time, allowing, once again, a different standard for DI in the same situation regardless of where the $ comes from - and there is plenty to fund the DIII situation).  I won't go into all the specifics and/or arguments in support or against that as time and space won't permit, nor do I wish to bore any of you.  Besides, this post is long enough already

Rather, I just thought I'd mention the above, particularly the courageous and unselfish decision of the Hope young women student/athlete since the topic of NCAA committee rules was brought up.  I'd be interested to hear your opinions on this.  Thanks. 

[Pat Coleman]

I have no problem with the rule limiting the number of players in uniform. It's consistent, it's well-known, published in advance, and has been the same for years.

Every year there are teams with more than 15 players on the roster and some of them have to sit out. Shoot, some conferences limit their teams to suiting up 15. It is not unusual and I have no problem with it.

It's not as if the limit is 12. Fifteen is a reasonable number that most teams fall under.

[formerd3db]

Pat:
You are right in the reasons you have cited (how did I know that would be your position? - of course, you and I have discussed, debated this before in good spirit!).  Indeed, one could argue that Hope's Coach Morehouse knew the rule and to avoid such a "dilemma", should have only carried 15 players on the roster for the season anyway.

I certainly see your point of view.  On the other hand, one of the issues that I have always had with this is the reason $ that the NCAA has always cited, in addition to the "bogus" reason they gave me with regard to it "being too congested on the sidelines/sidecourt" as another "major" reason for limiting all the rosters in any of the sports for the playoffs.  They need to "get real" on that last one !  No way is that legit, especially since they allow the opposite for DI in bowl games.  The latter should be no different than playoffs for the other divisions.

[Pat Coleman]

The NCAA has no jurisdiction whatsoever over Division I-A football bowl games. There's no "real" to "get" there.

[northb]

Just released: A new formula for in-region games:

Start with the distance between the two schools as decided by how long it takes my brother to drive there in his '76 Pinto;
subtract the number of D-1 transfers to your program;
divide by the number of not quite National Championship banners hanging in your swanky fieldhouse (divide again if you don't have a swanky fieldhouse, but mutiply if they actually are National Championship banners); add the number of split households attending the game (NCAA rules idicate that a split household is one in which the spouses have both graduated from the opposing schools, and do not sleep in the same bed for up to one week before or after the game, depending on who wins and how close the score was); add the number of recent game winning shots made by Freshmen from the Dakotas (if you have no Freshmen from the Dakotas, you may define TULIP instead);   
This formula was seen as the fairest to all schools regardless of region, how ugly/hot the girls of that school are, or how far they "should" have gone in the NCAA's

[Long Shot]

Cool article ran a few weeks ago about two brothers and former MIAA players. Looks like they're doing well overseas. If I recall, the younger one left Kzoo once his brother graduated.

http://nwitimes.com/articles/2006/04/06/sports/pro_sports/c6fe172eb2b2ed95862571480006c1b7.txt

[sac]

Just released: A new formula for in-region games:

Start with the distance between the two schools as decided by how long it takes my brother to drive there in his '76 Pinto;
subtract the number of D-1 transfers to your program;
divide by the number of not quite National Championship banners hanging in your swanky fieldhouse (divide again if you don't have a swanky fieldhouse, but mutiply if they actually are National Championship banners); add the number of split households attending the game (NCAA rules idicate that a split household is one in which the spouses have both graduated from the opposing schools, and do not sleep in the same bed for up to one week before or after the game, depending on who wins and how close the score was); add the number of recent game winning shots made by Freshmen from the Dakotas (if you have no Freshmen from the Dakotas, you may define TULIP instead);   
This formula was seen as the fairest to all schools regardless of region, how ugly/hot the girls of that school are, or how far they "should" have gone in the NCAA's

hmmm  Wheaton/Calvin still not in-region under that formula

[arena]

Yep, my people also gave word today that Veltema's a Knight.

Sweet, sweet, sweet.

Now, they just need a combo guard in this class.  Anyone know if Lynden or Pella or Timothy or Illiana had any decent guards this year who haven't announced? 

And I'm somewhat curious where Brett Kissane from GR South Christian is going. 

Probably nothing from Timothy.  My alma mater sends most of its kids to Trinity.

[Stinger]

Nice to see the Rhinehart brothers getting some love.  Dirk was a helluva player at K.   He was one of the deadliest shooters I have seen in the MIAA.  Eric had two solid years, however with Coach Haklin and Dirk leaving in back to back years, he transferred to Olivet Nazarene. 

[goodknight]

Probably nothing from Timothy.  My alma mater sends most of its kids to Trinity.

Unless they get the Peter Huizenga handshake and come to Holland.

[northb]

Just released: A new formula for in-region games:

Start with the distance between the two schools as decided by how long it takes my brother to drive there in his '76 Pinto;
subtract the number of D-1 transfers to your program;
divide by the number of not quite National Championship banners hanging in your swanky fieldhouse (divide again if you don't have a swanky fieldhouse, but mutiply if they actually are National Championship banners); add the number of split households attending the game (NCAA rules idicate that a split household is one in which the spouses have both graduated from the opposing schools, and do not sleep in the same bed for up to one week before or after the game, depending on who wins and how close the score was); add the number of recent game winning shots made by Freshmen from the Dakotas (if you have no Freshmen from the Dakotas, you may define TULIP instead);   
This formula was seen as the fairest to all schools regardless of region, how ugly/hot the girls of that school are, or how far they "should" have gone in the NCAA's

hmmm  Wheaton/Calvin still not in-region under that formula

Rats.  What's a Knight to do?

[arena]

Probably nothing from Timothy.  My alma mater sends most of its kids to Trinity.

Unless they get the Peter Huizenga handshake and come to Holland.

Oh, do tell.  I may not have heard this one.

[diehardfan]

I love how the "Go Hope" option has the most votes! 

hmmm  Wheaton/Calvin still not in-region under that formula

Rats. What's a Knight to do?

We sure appreciate you trying though.