MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[GoKnights68]

I understand that the argument is a little tough to make when you look at overall accomplishments of the program.  However, what I'm looking at is what was the potential of his teams were.  He has had some years where they had very good accomplishments, but the talent level has been through the roof.  My feeling is that based on the talent that has been there, the accomplishments could be a lot better.  What is even more frustrating is that unless a Dan Aultman is about to walk through the door, the talent level is going to be decreasing rapidly and I don't think he has the ability to overcome that.  He has always had a top notch player (Winkle, Veenstra, Aultman, Veldhouse).  I have never seen the ability to make adjustments and without an all-american type player to bail you out, what will Calvin be looking like?

I understand.  Pre-2007-2008 season I wouldn't really call all those MIAA championships, final fours, and national championships all happened because Calvin just had a player that could bail them out.  They obviously had to face some really good teams in the NCAA tourneys that had star players too.  The 2005 team wasn't predicted to do much that year according the coaches meeting and look what they did.  The 2006 looked like it was going to be one of the worse Calvin teams in a while after the Van Andel tourney, but they obviously were well coached as they improved to win the MIAA outright with a lot of youth.


But like I said, it has been very frustrating to be a Calvin fan last season and this season.  They have obviously underachieved.  And this senior class has gone 3-9 vs Hope, which always frustrating for a rival team.  What has been missing last season and this season is a good  forward that can score, and hit those 12 foot shots consistently.  Sort of like a Chris Prins type of player with that size.  Defenses can easily focus on a couple different players out on the court when they see guys out on the court that they know don't have a lot of offensive ability.  

[realist]

gk68:  Your analysis and mine look pretty much alike.  It is nice to see Veltema starting to provide some scoring punch much like Engelsma did later last year.  To me the problem with the Knight equation right now is rebounding.  Veltema just doesn't pull in his share, Mantel running around out of the paint doesn't help, and when Zoerhof is in he does reasonably well with rebounding, but he is not an offensive threat.  For my money a player to get pt must either score or rebound, and currently Calvin doesn't have many who do both well consistantly.  I think Calvin has had reasonably talented teams the last 5-6 years, but none that could dominate most teams or games.

[Dark Knight]

However, what I'm looking at is what was the potential of his teams were.  He has had some years where they had very good accomplishments, but the talent level has been through the roof.  My feeling is that based on the talent that has been there, the accomplishments could be a lot better.  What is even more frustrating is that unless a Dan Aultman is about to walk through the door, the talent level is going to be decreasing rapidly and I don't think he has the ability to overcome that.  He has always had a top notch player (Winkle, Veenstra, Aultman, Veldhouse).  I have never seen the ability to make adjustments and without an all-american type player to bail you out, what will Calvin be looking like?

Are you suggesting that the other teams who make it to the final four or the national championship don't need all-american type players? 

Could it be, instead, that it's hard for casual observers on the outside to make an accurate assessment of the talent of a team, how quick and strong they are, how well they do the less-noticeable things like rebounding, passing, and rotating on defense, how quickly they will 

[sac]

Sooooooo very clever DK,  +k

[hope_hoops1]

Here's the difference that I've noticed for Hope (GVW) and Calvin (KVS) over the last few years.  Neither team has been able to recruit a dominant post-player out of high school, due mostly to $$$.  Both have had their share of players who didn't pan out recently, but over the years the teams have catered their offensive and defensive strategies to having a big man.  IMHO, Calvin has not handled this recruiting change as well as Hope has.

In Calvin's best years under KVS, they have had great post players (Veenstra & Aultman).  However, to say these teams were built off of one solid player is misleading as both had wing players capable of scoring in bunches (Prins, Draayer, Trewhella, Veldhouse).  Without a dominant bigman, the system has changed some, but not as much as necessary given the current talent.  I'd offer some of my suggestions here, but I don't think I'm qualified to make any difference (plus, I don't want to be accused of helping out the Knights).

Hope has had a much smoother transition since their last dominant big man (Overbeek -- Don, that is) into a more perimeter/movement type offense.  GVW has been able to get athletic, versatile post-players (and I use 'post' here loosely as many of these players were/are more comfortable out on the perimeter) which has paid huge dividends on both ends of the court (Phillips, Klein, Reimink come to mind).  There are lots of mis-matches on the offensive end with players I feel very comfortable about shooting 3's and the transition game has improved drastically.  The problem with these players is that Hope struggles with good post players (see Wittenburg 3 years ago and Wash. U the last two years).  

That being said, it's hard for me to question either of these two coaches.  I'm sure they know more about basketball than any of us posting on here.  

GO HOPE and Merry Christmas to all.

[MIdoubleA]

Sophmore slumps are dangerous, and there is nothing I'd like to see more than our soph's get some PT. Anyone remember Kratz? (Anyone believe I'm actually asking that?)

On a less serious note, anyone want to make Christmas lists for our teams/players/coaches? I think it would be a good way to poke fun at ourselves

For example:

GVW
Socks and ties
Kevlar-reinforced pocket liners
Sophmores
Socks and ties
MIAA championship
Noro-antidote (in case of reintroduction)
Socks and ties

[sac]

Every basketball coach should receive an invisible fence collar to keep them off the court and in the coaches box.

Could be entertaining for the fans too.

[AlwaysHope]

With the lull in the basketball, how about a little Hope trivia:

In the baseball display at the DeVos Fieldhouse, there is a mention of the first baseball game at what was then a new Hope stadium in 1963.  Hope won that game 45 years ago by the score of 1-0, when junior Glenn Van Wieren got a hit in the 9th inning to bring home the baserunner, senior Jim Bultman (who is now Hope's President).

Since that day now Coach Van Wieren has brought home a record 17 MIAA Championships! 

[scottiedawg]

No Michael McClary tonight?

[sac]

No Michael McClary tonight?

I was told he tweaked an ankle out west, and sat out one of those games.  Must not be ready to go.  Hopefully thats all it is.

[sac]

Brandon McClary is going nuts..........38 with a couple minutes left.

http://www.olivetcollege.edu/athletics/livestats/mbasketball/xlive.htm

[scottiedawg]

Brandon McClary is going nuts..........38 with a couple minutes left.

http://www.olivetcollege.edu/athletics/livestats/mbasketball/xlive.htm

19/23 from the floor too.

[scottiedawg]

And now 3 straight missed shots.

[cmlundy]

anybody know who Jorlin Scott is?  He was listed on the Scoresheet copy on Saturday

[sac]

Defiance, Ohio 81, Kalamazoo 55
Olivet 81, Franklin, Ind. 79
Adrian 65, Bluffton, Ohio 64

Both Adrian and Olivet win games in the closing seconds.  Olivet with a dramatic layup at the buzzer I assume since the box score says :00.  Adrian with the less dramatic, miss then make FT scenario and hope the other team misses, which they did.

Both opponents hit 3's in the last minute to tie the game.

League record now 26-37.
----------------------------------------------------

Brandon McClary's 38 points tonight is undoubtedly the new gym record at the 5 week old Cutler Center.  Jeff Bell once scored 45 I think so its not an Olivet record and I'm not sure where that would fall on their list. 

38 is the most points by an MIAA player since Brandon Crawford of Albion had 38 vs UM-Dearborn in 2005-06 season.  Crazy because it was the season openor.  It was also the beginning of a double-double tear that resulted in the MVP.  He finished the year with 17 double-doubles in 26 games. http://miaa.org/mbb/stats/0506/1118mdab.htm

  Andy Phillips of Hope scored 45 against Trine in the 2003-04 season back when they played 'Grinnell ball' and were called Tri-State.   That was a crazy game  http://miaa.org/mbb/stats/0304/0107HOTS.HTM

Brian Schaefer of Adrian also had 40 that same year as Phillips at the other Notre Dame.  http://miaa.org/mbb/stats/0304/1228ADND.HTM