MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Titan Q]

True - but then why is it when I see this discussed on other boards, it is still the CCIW posters who bring up Hope and the MIAA? 

Because Hope and Calvin a) are two very high profile and successful programs that are often in the NCAA tournament picture (where matters of in-region record are important), and b) have played 1 and 0 in-region games respectively this year (and typically play very few in-region non-conference games). 

In other words, because this discussion is relevant to Hope and Calvin.  I cannot really think of any other high profile programs where this is an issue.   Shoot me some names and I will go bug them!

[HopeConvert]

True - but then why is it when I see this discussed on other boards, it is still the CCIW posters who bring up Hope and the MIAA? 

Because Hope and Calvin a) are two very high profile and successful programs that are often in the NCAA tournament picture (where matters of in-region record are important), and b) have played 1 and 0 in-region games respectively this year (and typically play very few in-region non-conference games). 

In other words, because this discussion is relevant to Hope and Calvin.  I cannot really think of any other high profile programs where this is an issue.   Shoot me some names and I will go bug them!

I have to confess I'm sympathetic to Bob's arguments on this issue, and am not quite sure why MIAA fans seem so thin-skinned about it. The CCIW has no horse in this race; we're the ones being hurt.

I, for one, would much rather see Hope play Augie than Grace Bible or Madonna. Call me crazy.

[northb]

Why travel 250 miles for a game to appease committee members when you have some good competition in your own backyard? 

There's no need to go 250 miles. Q listed nearly a dozen schools closer than that that all qualify as regional opponents.

125 miles there and 125 back =250

[gohope]

I for one just want to bring Judson in for ALL pre-conference games!  Let's play them over, and over and over!!     (Just in case you didn't hear the loads of sarcasim, let me put it in bold letters, THAT WAS SARCASM!!)

And thanks to everyone for the info on Olivets Basketball gym. I looked briefly on their website but didn't look far enough. Thanks again!

[ScotsFan]

True - but then why is it when I see this discussed on other boards, it is still the CCIW posters who bring up Hope and the MIAA? 

Because Hope and Calvin a) are two very high profile and successful programs that are often in the NCAA tournament picture (where matters of in-region record are important), and b) have played 1 and 0 in-region games respectively this year (and typically play very few in-region non-conference games). 

In other words, because this discussion is relevant to Hope and Calvin.  I cannot really think of any other high profile programs where this is an issue.   Shoot me some names and I will go bug them!

I have to confess I'm sympathetic to Bob's arguments on this issue, and am not quite sure why MIAA fans seem so thin-skinned about it. The CCIW has no horse in this race; we're the ones being hurt.

I, for one, would much rather see Hope play Augie than Grace Bible or Madonna. Call me crazy.

Just to throw my 2 cents FWIW, this isn't exactly something new.  This discussion does seem to raise it's ugly head on an annual basis.  I just feel that scheduling out of conference opponents that would count towards their in-region record must not be a priority of either Hope or Calvin.  If it was, they would have taken steps to try and improve it by now wouldn't you think?  Judging by how they have played one non-conference in-region opponent between them this season, I'd say that is a pretty strong indicator that they don't really care to change anything and are quite happy playing their annual tilts with C'stone and Aquinas and Grace Bible year in and year out even though it would clearly be more adventageous for them to go out and schedule some of the teams that Bob listed in one of his earlier posts on the subject. 

[northb]

I think that it is more hassle than the schools care to take.  Because of the peninisula issue (ferry's notwithstanding), the lengths and distance the schools would have to go through, and the other things that they would give up (the competetion against neighbor programs), it just isn't worth it.  So just win the AQ. 

[sac]

I have to confess I'm sympathetic to Bob's arguments on this issue, and am not quite sure why MIAA fans seem so thin-skinned about it. The CCIW has no horse in this race; we're the ones being hurt.

I, for one, would much rather see Hope play Augie than Grace Bible or Madonna. Call me crazy.

Hey, I would to.  I just seem to be more willing to recognize the reasons it doesn't happen more frequently.  This subject comes up every year, usually by the same people who frankly have it 100% easier to schedule in-region games, they don't seem willing to understand facts.

Hope put a post on this board for one of its tournaments a couple years ago........I don't believe any D3's responded.  Certainly none showed up at DeVos.

Pat won't be happy untill Hope has 12 in-region opponents no matter how illogical that really is, I don't know what will make Q happy, and Chuck needs to chill on the CCIW propoganda, this conversation didn't even start about scheduling.  By the way Chuck, yes we realize we lost to two  CCIW teams this year.  The fact this conversation even got to here is amazing.



I can only imagine the perception in Grand Rapids if Hope and Calvin didn't play Cornerstone or Aquinas or for that matter any of the other small college Michigan schools.

are quite happy playing their annual tilts with C'stone and Aquinas and Grace Bible year in and year out even though it would clearly be more adventageous for them to go out and schedule some of the teams that Bob listed in one of his earlier posts on the subject. 

I'd stack Aquinas and Grace Bible against any of those D3's Q mentioned.

Interesting we get a Wooster poster on this subject since it was Wooster who just two years ago played one 1 non-conference game in-region, yet received no criticism from the d3boards.com scheduleing committee.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

True - but then why is it when I see this discussed on other boards, it is still the CCIW posters who bring up Hope and the MIAA? 

Because Hope and Calvin a) are two very high profile and successful programs that are often in the NCAA tournament picture (where matters of in-region record are important), and b) have played 1 and 0 in-region games respectively this year (and typically play very few in-region non-conference games). 

In other words, because this discussion is relevant to Hope and Calvin.  I cannot really think of any other high profile programs where this is an issue.   Shoot me some names and I will go bug them!

I have to confess I'm sympathetic to Bob's arguments on this issue, and am not quite sure why MIAA fans seem so thin-skinned about it. The CCIW has no horse in this race; we're the ones being hurt.

I, for one, would much rather see Hope play Augie than Grace Bible or Madonna. Call me crazy.

Just to throw my 2 cents FWIW, this isn't exactly something new.  This discussion does seem to raise it's ugly head on an annual basis.  I just feel that scheduling out of conference opponents that would count towards their in-region record must not be a priority of either Hope or Calvin.  If it was, they would have taken steps to try and improve it by now wouldn't you think?  Judging by how they have played one non-conference in-region opponent between them this season, I'd say that is a pretty strong indicator that they don't really care to change anything and are quite happy playing their annual tilts with C'stone and Aquinas and Grace Bible year in and year out even though it would clearly be more adventageous for them to go out and schedule some of the teams that Bob listed in one of his earlier posts on the subject. 

That hits the nail on the head  +k.  It's not like the schools aren't aware of this - therefore it must be a conscious decision to have the schedule they have.  Given the recent history of the MIAA in the NCAA tournament, I suspect they (the coaches and ADs) are probably pretty happy with their current schedules.

[KnightSlappy]

it would clearly be more adventageous for them to go out and schedule some of the teams that Bob listed in one of his earlier posts on the subject. 

I wouldn't say that it is CLEARLY more adventageous.  Hope and Calvin have each made a final four appearance in the last 5 years.

And as sac pointed out earlier, Calvin brought BW into Grand Rapids early this year and went down and won Defiance's tournament.  It really isn't Calvin's fault that each of those teams lost in the opening round and the Knights didn't end up with the regional matchup.

I think Calvin is perfectly happy playing AQ and Cstone.  They get all of the experience from playing a quality team without risking a in-region loss.  For teams like Calvin and Hope an in-region loss can hurt as much as, or more than, the win would help.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Pat won't be happy untill Hope has 12 in-region opponents no matter how illogical that really is, I don't know what will make Q happy, and Chuck needs to chill on the CCIW propoganda, this conversation didn't even start about scheduling.  By the way Chuck, yes we realize we lost to two  CCIW teams this year.  The fact this conversation even got to here is amazing.

Good post sac - it really is amazing that we're having this conversation, again.  It did prompt me to see if the numbers (tournament records) of the two leagues shed any light on whether or not it's all that important...

Tournament records 2000-2008

CCIW  28-15  (.651)  2 final fours
MIAA   25-11  (.694)  3 final fours

[hope1]

yes   i think it is hope first region game of the year  tonight vs olivet glenn said it is the best olivet team he has seen in a long time tonight should be insterting game to listen to

[ziggy]

it would clearly be more adventageous for them to go out and schedule some of the teams that Bob listed in one of his earlier posts on the subject. 

The MIAA has put two teams in the tournament three of the last four years.  With only one AQ, obviously the scheduling hasn't been a problem for the selection committee.

[Pat Coleman]

Why travel 250 miles for a game to appease committee members when you have some good competition in your own backyard? 

There's no need to go 250 miles. Q listed nearly a dozen schools closer than that that all qualify as regional opponents.

125 miles there and 125 back =250

If you can't drive two hours for a game then you need to be playing intramurals. No offense.

[Pat Coleman]

Pat won't be happy untill Hope has 12 in-region opponents no matter how illogical that really is

Hyperbolize much? I didn't even say anything on this topic this season until today, pretty sure.

I recognize the value of containing cost and playing a couple games against local rivals. Just not as many as we're talking about here.

Give me a break. I have stayed out of this conversation precisely because of your personal reaction to it from previous years, sac. I don't know why it's personal for you but it's not for me.

[oldknight]

I just looked at pictures of the New Cutler Center and it looks very nice!  I am glad to see that OC decided to hang lights up in this gym, now I can stop taking my flashlight to the games.     Now if only we can get AQ to turn the lights on for games at their gym...

Speaking of gym lights, I have been told that for tonight's opener at VanNoord (and presumably all to follow), Calvin will use only the arena's flood lights which will shine exclusively on the playing surface, leaving the seated areas without direct light. That should be impressive.